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Passions in Poetry

Sensitivity or lack of....

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brian madden
Member Elite
since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532
ireland


25 posted 09-22-2000 03:20 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

"Could you clarify your final paragraph for me though, I'm not sure if you're saying it's ok to offend so long as the author made you feel it whether you're saying the opposite?"

No no I don't think it is ok to offend someone, say for instance I write a poem I would prefer for someone to give me an honest response... say well it is ok but it is lacking needs this that, I am totally against idiots who can't string an arguement or critique together saying "your poem sucks" I don't like everything I read, but that does not mean it is rubbish. It would be very arrogant of me to think that just because I don't like something that is has no value. I Like to hear people's opinions when formed in intelligent responses, I can handle hearing that something I wrote is not good if I can be given reasons. I can't help the way people will react to my poems but I do like to hear their thoughts even if they are opposed to mine. If the poem has made them think, made them question then I am happy. But I have no time for idiots who get kicks out of tearing poems apart when they can't even form an intelligent sentence.In fact that reminds me I should be getting back to posting in Crit. and stop feeding my ego. Just go easy on me, not that I am easily offended.    
  


"an afixiation a fix on anything the line of life the limb of a tree
the hands of he and the promise that s/he is blessed among women".
Patti Smith
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


26 posted 09-22-2000 06:34 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

JP: HUGS are good to have and of course I will say that because I genuinely mean my hugs every time I place them on the end of my message..if I didn't, I simply wouldn't add them...    

However, I do think misplaced comfort can do as much damage as no comfort at all...so it's a personal choice, I will naturally respond to something that I sense, you know? That gut feeling type of poem/reply...those that I feel no affinity for I pass on by or as is more often the case these days, I simply can't read them all....once, I was here all the time, but then something triggers off a pattern and sometimes you have to do other things but rest assured, each and every time I say HUGS, I mean it...that's just the kind of person I am..    

HUGS *g*

*******

WhiteWolf:  You do bring up many valid points, I would not dream of commenting on someone's grammar but it could make a lot of difference as to how smoothly I read what they feel...but I really wasn't talking here of the odd spelling error...

Story for you....a few years back and on a completly different forum....a young lady was posting and always got her words mixed up or so it seemed, often transposed...I was talking to an extremely intelligent man and it bugged him no end, to the point where he said he was going to say that if she were a teacher, she should be ashamed of herself...I disagreed, without too much difficulty you could read the heart, the warmth and the care inside all of her messages...however, he did post such a message....turns out she was dyslexic...guess who felt bad about that or should have done....

Poems or replies are not all about grammar, they're about sharing, and I'm sure if I spelt heart as hart, most, would read between the errors...

Thank you for your reply and the time it took you to do so..    

HUGS

*******

Trevor: ROFL...you do make a lot of sense...*g*...quite true what you say, how would we all know that occasionally we are thought of as grumpy; idiotic, vulgar, etc etc, if no one else took the time to say....thank heavens most think I am a warm type of soul but with a wicked sense of humour..*g*

Food for thought..

Thanks for the reply, enjoyed it immensely..    

*******

JP: We know....ROFL but a kind one, however much you like to think you're an argumentative so and so...*g*

HUGS

*******

Brian: Thanks for the clarification..    

I don't personally belive that Open or any other forum other than C/A is the right place to critique anyone, unless, you know them extremely well....my own take, as a personal thought on this, is that many post an emotional poem and as such, that is how I read them, yes, sometimes when I print out a poem to share with someone else I can trip over the words (and I'm used to speaking publicly) simply because format got in the way of the actual message, sometimes a poem will run so smoothly, it litteraly will run off the tongue, sometimes you will laugh so much that you have to stop for breath...but I will never, ever think I'm so good, that I can afford to criticise another...    

Just isn't my style....but I am so glad you clarified that...

To me, poetry is about expression, pain, happiness or simply bewilderment...which ever way...thank heavens, we have the means to place on paper/screen words that communicate who we each are..    

HUGS


ps: I made at least 5 spelling errors on this last post, fingers run in front of my brain..*g*



[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 09-22-2000).]
StarrGazer
Senior Member
since 03-05-2000
Posts 696
Texas


27 posted 09-23-2000 12:12 AM       View Profile for StarrGazer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for StarrGazer

In  my opinion there are two ways to critique a poem constructive critisism and then there is the just plain rudenes.
Granted you may not like every poem you read but goes back to the "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" form of thought.
If you would like to give a writer advice on their poem I have found ,as a general rule, first say what you like about the poem and then if you have any suggestions to make write them down read through them as if they were intended for you and think of how the comments make you feel. If you have done all of this and think that the advice you offer has been stated in the best way that you know how and is not meant to be offensive and you don't find it as such  say a little prayer and click send and hope that they do not take it in a offensive way... it's not guaranteed to work but at least you will know that you  have  put some thought into your response and if the person gets offended you have done everything within your power to insure that it did not happen.

Now taking the role of the offendee, if someone posts a reply that you find offensive you can either confront them and tell them "hey, you really offended me with that remark" or you can simply weigh what they have said, determine if it has any merit kindly thank them and chose to ignore the offense secure in the knowledge that YOU like the poem.  

ok ok enough rambling ...sorry I can see both sides of the argument here, and I have solutions that seem to work for me  so just thought I'd share them  

Shan  
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


28 posted 09-23-2000 01:30 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Okay, I've decided. I'm just going to start using smilies.  I read a lot of the work on this site and I don't always comment, often I am not moved to, often I cannot think of anything worthwhile to say

The resounding message here is "if you don't have anything nice to say, blah, blah, blah..."  Then add to that the idea that if I am not putting some sort of reply on someone's poem, I in turn get brushed aside.  There's a whole courtesy/karma/payback thing going on here that I cannot quite grasp...

So, I'll just start posting smilies when I read a poem, bump everyone to the top when I read it - perhaps blue smilies when they make me sad, embarrassed smilies for poems in the Adult forum, mad smilies (oxymoron?) when I don't like something...  At least this way I will let the poet know that I read his or her work and I won't have to fake something nice nor offend with something not nice.


Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so.
B. Russell
Trevor
Senior Member
since 08-12-99
Posts 744
Canada


29 posted 09-23-2000 10:32 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hello again everyone,

JP:

Thanks for the kind words. I don't know if I made sense of it all but I hope at least I didn't make the water any muddier

Cindy:

"I disagreed, without too much difficulty you could read the heart, the warmth and the care inside all of her messages...however, he did post such a message....turns out she was dyslexic...guess who felt bad about that or should have done...."

Why should he have felt bad, you make it sound like what he did was something bad, he didn't know that she was dyslexic and now he does. To me that is something good. If he had kept silent you may never had known this and never have come to a better and deeper understanding of this person. You probably would have always thought that this girl was awful at spelling or sentence structure if no one had questioned it. There's no shame in being dyslexic but that doesn't mean it should be ignored. If anyone needs extra help with spelling and grammar its those that suffer from dyslexia. I mean the fact that she even had the ability to write poetry most likely comes from the fact that there are people who have corrected her backward tendencies and tried to help her. If people had just sat idly by and said, I don't want to offend her by pointing out mistakes, her writing would probably be incomprehensible and never improve and she would never be able to share her written words and thoughts with you.

BTW glad you enjoyed my initial response.

"To me, poetry is about expression, pain, happiness or simply bewilderment...which ever way...thank heavens, we have the means to place on paper/screen words that communicate who we each are.."

I couldn't agree with you more, however....and there always seems to be a however waiting to escape from me , the written language is about communicating thoughts and feelings so that we can more accurately project ourselves to others. Isn't that the point of writing? Its like painting pictures of ourselves through words even when those words pertain to someone else.....and if there is no discussion on how we use language then how can we ever become effective at doing this....and if we can't become effective at doing this then how can we expect to have any understanding of each other or our world? How can we expect to be understood?

Well I guess that's it for me, I'll shut up now.

Thanks for the interesting discussion,

Trevor
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


30 posted 09-23-2000 04:33 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

StarrGazer:  Thanks for your input..  

I agree that should you wish to respond to something with suggestions then you should do so through email, unless of course they have requested ideas/suggestions...but, I read everything as coming from a unique individual and anything I might have to say would surely be from my own perspective?  And no I wouldn't comment on form because I have no idea about that at all, and it shows..*g*

But we're on the same line I think...not everyone will say something to an unkind comment and I am probably the worst offender on that subject, give me someone who is hurting and I'll be like a ferret with a rat but rarely on my own behalf...LOL

*******

JP: ROFL...if I see a smiley, right way up or upside down as the only comment from you I think I shall be to busy reminding myself of this thread and laughing...I almost want to go and hunt out any replies from you...*g*

******

Trevor:  Yes, I believe he should have been ashamed of himself, this was not on a poetry forum and he could have asked in a diplomatic way, rather than just assume that she was making no effort...he could have emailed her privately, he could have been diplomatic, to me they are both a courtesy one should apply in any situation...but just because that's my personal opinion, it doesn't make me right...*g*

As for his comment to me when he did know, if I remember correctly it was soemthing like, 'well she shouldn't be posting then' .....*sigh*

Re the writing form etc...just my own personal thoughts here...I did try once to get a grasp on all the various forms but I found that when I tried to apply them, I lost the natural me and this strange stiff person came out instead...so I gave it up...I just write exactly as I feel at any given moment and as for style, the only comment I can make on that is that it is called RainbowGirl/Cindy style...ROFL

Thanks again for all your replies...it's been a great way to get to know you better..  

HUGS all



[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 09-23-2000).]
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