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Passions in Poetry

The Spirit of Passions

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Sven
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Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


0 posted 10-27-2000 01:03 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

Is the title of this post something that we've all forgotten about?

In the past months, this place has turned into an arena. . . and things have happened.  Friends have been made, friends have been lost, people have left, people have come back, new memebers have arrived.  People have been hurt, people have been made into things that they're not. . . gossip and innuendo have run rampant. . . and lives changed. . . for the better. . .and for the worse. . .

This is supposed to be a haven from the world. . . not a reflection of it. . . we are supposed to be able to express ourselves however we want (in the proper ways) without fear of rejection or anger.  Or, am I wrong?  True, our poems do reflect what's going on in our lives. . . but do our actions have to be those of the world also?  Is this not a "Family of Friends"?  And yes, I know that every Family has it's problems. . . and that we're not going to be immune from all of them. . . but there's always respect and understanding there also. (or at least there should be)

But that hasn't happened. . . and believe me, I know. . . it's happened to me. . . and it's happened to others. . . I know that too. . . people said things here. . . they took risks, they put themselves and their reputations on the line. . . because they believed that they were doing the right thing, that they needed to say what they said, that they were defending their friends, or trying to prevent what happened to them from happening to someone else. . . and what did we do?  We shouted them down. . .we made them to feel as though they had no right to say what they did, in public and in private. . . we went on a witch hunt. . . that's the only thing that I can call it.

These people are to be commended for their actions. . . not belittled, not made into scapegoats. . . I know that if they were my friends, that I would thank the stars above that they would put themselves out there like that for me. . . that, my friends, is one of the true definitions of friendship. . . these people would dare try to help. . . and we would dare try to say that they're wrong. . .without getting the whole story. . .without seeing what's going to happen. . .no, we all make our judgements before hand and stick by them. . . and to a degree that's not wrong either, because we're trying to stick up for and behind who we're friends with. . . which is admirable. . . but, is it right?  That I can't answer. . .it's up to all of you to answer for yourselves. . .

Okay, I'm done. . . I know that it looks like I'm sitting the fence here. . . but I'm just trying to show both sides. . . trying to understand what's been going on and why. . . if I haven't, please forgive me. . .and please help me fill in the blanks. . . and I realize that I am probably going to get a lot of flack for this post myself. . . but it's what I feel. . .

I love Passions. . .and I love every poet that's here. . . I love that this place exists. . . I don't want to see it die. . . I don't want people to be hurt. . . without this place, for some of us. . . we would be dead. . . our lives would be empty. . . and that, my friends. . . would be the greatest tragedy of all. . .

Thanks to you all for listening. . .    

-----------------------------------------------------------------




That which gives light must endure burning
--Victor Frankl





[This message has been edited by Sven (edited 10-27-2000).]
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


1 posted 10-27-2000 01:34 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

You will not see me condemning you here on this day and you do not seem to me to be riding the fence at all.  I agree with the SPIRIT OF PASSIONS and for me...if I don't have it in writing then to me it is rumor and gossip...If I have it in writing...straight from the horses mouth (or pen as it would, or is that keyboard) then I will place it in the proper hands or in the proper light.  I agree with you as I said and if anyone has a problem with me , then deal with it via email or however they chose in private or shut up...don't need nor do I wish to have my battles in public forums and you are so right when you say that we have lost some good poets because of this.  It is not right...  Well stated but of course it would be from one of your talent with words.  Thank you for voicing your opinion.
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


2 posted 10-27-2000 01:40 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Sven, there are going to be a lot of people who don't know what you're talking about. Because you have friends you talk to via email or ICQ, you know the background for what is/has been happening. So if we could concentrate on your first paragraph:

quote:

In the past months, this place has turned into an arena. . . and things have happened.  Friends have been made, friends have been lost, people have left, people have come back, new memebers have arrived.  People have been hurt, people have been made into things that they're not. . . gossip and innuendo have run rampant. . . and lives changed. . . for the better. . .and for the worse. . .




We've seen an ebb and flow of members for a long time and yes, we've seen anger (read the Alley archives). But we are dealing with people..with emotions. And I think because we WRITE our emotion into our poetry, poets are more apt to be emotional.

Can we have a fair and impersonal discussion about this? I'm not sure....we are after all only human.
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


3 posted 10-27-2000 02:18 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Sven - I know we've had our own disagreements in the past, and partially, this will be the same though hopefully not in the same manner.

because... I think the "Spirit of Passions" is based on the interaction of the people within. Diversity is one of the cornerstones of this interaction. Repeated again - if everyone agreed all the time, this would be a boring world indeed. It's the things which make us different that makes us special. Sometimes those things which are different aren't liked by everyone, but I think that if a few people out of 4,000+ don't get along all the time, it's still a darn good track record! You said "This is supposed to be a haven from the world... not a reflection of it..." But again, I have to disagree. The people of Passions are part of the world. You can't separate the two when the very thing that makes up the one comprises the other.

Call me (no, not that...) weird - But I don't see the true problem as it relates to Passions. If something's going on in someone's life, then they're dealing with the people, not the place. Passions provides a moderated place where people can interact. But the last thing we want to do (not suggesting you're saying this) is to control or try to moderate what happens to other's lives. These kind of things are things which should be dealt with on a personal level, one which Passions should, in my op, be separate from. It's my opinion that some people are losing that separation between the place and the people. Passions is a home. In homes there are rules and general courtesies that are expected to be followed. So if you visit someone's home, and have a problem with someone inside that home, is it the home's fault? No, it's an issue to be dealt with the person, not the home.

I commend your thoughtfulness for bringing this up Sven, I really do. But I think that focusing on Passions is the wrong approach. By doing it that way, you're likely to miss your intended targets and hit a lot of people that aren't involved. If you're having a problem with some members of your family, do you call all of them out and start calling names? No, you  go to the ones whom you have a problem with. Doing otherwise will often be more problematic than it's worth (as we both know).

Oh - and one more thing: I don't think you have to worry about Passions dying. While there is a small percentage of people who might be hurting it, there is a much larger percentage of those caring, considerate, kind, and strong people holding up the walls.

Chris
Christopher
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since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


4 posted 10-27-2000 02:27 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

oh and Mark, no offense, but -

quote:
...don't need nor do I wish to have my battles in public forums...


you can't have it both ways bud!
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum42/HTML/001908.html

Again, no offense - but when you do something like this, that's exactly what you're doing. This poem is instigating a battle, don't you think?

Chris
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


5 posted 10-27-2000 02:37 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

For once, I am thrilled that I do not have a clue as to what is going on. But it is ironic to me, that I have dreams of world peace, and poets cannot get along. (I know, I know, spoken like I'm running for Miss Passions...lol)

But I am glad to see this discussion take place in it's proper place.  Let's not muck up the open forums.  It makes us all look bad.  (And I'd like to thank my mom and dad, and of course, all the judges, for this opportunity...tee hee!)
Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley


6 posted 10-27-2000 02:47 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Well said Chris!!!  
Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


7 posted 10-27-2000 03:10 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I'm going to have to start staying up at night so I can catch up on all of this...but then I'll be bone-tired in the morning and will call in sick to keep reading...

there's so much posted, apparently I've missed all of the "apt" pieces...

GROUP HUG, FOLKS....


Karilea
If I whisper, will you listen?...KRJ


SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


8 posted 10-27-2000 03:27 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I'm sorry feelings have been hurt
I'm sorry people feel they need to take sides
I'm sorry people are arguing
I'm sorry I have no clue as to what this is about
I'm sorry I feel so out of the loop  
I'm sorry I can't go to Reno this weekend...
............................................

I really don't know what is going on and why everyone is having a pissing contest, I just hope it stops. This place is so special to me.I've never had friends like you all before. Each and everyone of you are special to me. I hope things get straighted out fast. I mean, it's coming up to the Holidays...... Let it rest.   Please? -SEA
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


9 posted 10-27-2000 04:04 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Someone wanna tell me what the heck this is about and yeah, thanks Chris for the link to Mark's poem but I still don't have a clue...

I think someone should whisper in my ear and I guess I'll just have to pretend that they're really telling me I'm.......ok...*g*

Seriously, Gossip is the *pits* and causes nothing but trouble and heartache...so, someone want to stand up and say it straight or will gossip win again?

HUGS all..
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


10 posted 10-27-2000 05:21 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

Chris-yes you are right and I have stayed out of it for months...as I said on one of my replies, my poem was and is crap and we should all move on to proper poetry.  I am not now nor will ever try to stir anything up without good cause or reason.  The reason, though I see it may be wrong or right was simply to draw attention to a matter to the moderators that has been going on for months.  As of today, I am as guilty as all that have been involved in this and I admit it, but if it all stops as of now then I consider it worth it.  It has to stop somewhere and I hope that this is it.  There are not any names mentioned in my replies nor will there ever be.  I apologize openly to you and to all the poets in passions and have no hard feelings toward anybody, I just want to read poetry that is not to out to condemn or to chase another poet off.  Hope you can see that side of it as well though I did not pick the proper forum, I chose it to make a point because that is where the other dozen were put up and to tell you the truth, I wish that a moderator would just put a lock on mine as maybe should have been done in the first place.  Thank you for your insight.
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


11 posted 10-27-2000 05:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I think that one of the worst things one can do is to throw out hints and innuendos warning of impending doom while being careful not to say anything specific. Then people wonder, watch everyone, look for goblins in closets....if you have something to say....SAY IT...don't make vague accusations! Otherwise leave it alone and write poetry.

As Chris said, you don't have to worry about Passions dying..it is much stronger than a small group of dissident poets with delusions of grandeur over their power.

I shall now go slit my wrists for agreeing with Chris about anything.....
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


12 posted 10-27-2000 05:43 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

Balladeer-you are right and my lack of judgement I will admit to.  It was not aimed at any one in particular so will someone please either lock it so it cannot even be read or just plain delete the whole thing.  As I said, my lack of judgement in the manner and the forum.  I apologize to all.
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


13 posted 10-27-2000 05:43 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Well excuse me Mark...sorry I'm invisible to you, same as the others that don't have a clue what this is all about....

How the heck can we participate in a discussion if we don't know the facts?  Ok, you can leave names out of it but I'm just getting annoyed....if you guys want to hash over a problem in private, do so, but if you want public participation then at least be kind enough to acknowledge that we took time out to comment....

and no, I'm not annoyed with you Mark but fed up because this is just sparking off more comments...in my experience if you stand up and say whatever is bothering you people will add their comments and those that lurk will not think anything of it...when innuendo and dialogues such as these take place, well...even I'm wondering who we're talking about...see what I mean...sorry, I do tend to be straight as an arrow these days...

HUGS
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


14 posted 10-27-2000 05:52 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

RainbowGirl-To you and all those that have replied...I am not ignoring you and I am sorry that it seemed that way.  I was just replying to moderators to try to get something removed in open 10 that I posted in a huge lack of judgement.  I hope you will accept this as a true lesson of learning for me and it is on a subject that is not worth carrying on if it is going to pinpoint anyone.  I simply am here to read good poetry and that is it and just woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning.lol..thank you for participating and for your concern and I finally have the post moved and locked as I wanted.  Hope to see you around in the forums with smiles as I will be.  I too have NO hard feelings toward anybody.  Thank you all.
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


15 posted 10-27-2000 05:58 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Mark~ that's because you didn't wake up on MY side... Com'mon let's all have a beer and cool our heels.......It's Friday!   -SEA
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


16 posted 10-27-2000 05:59 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Mark...

First thing, I appreciate you have something valid to say and I'll respond to it....but if you want a mod to delete a poem I can think of several ways to do so:

1) edit the content if within the 24 hour guidelines

2) ask one...please mod, delete this post, it's causing problems I never intended....and whoosh, it will be gone as if by magic...

Apology accepted but wasn't really necessary, this is The Alley after all...*g*...but we're adults Mark and most that reply in these forums, i.e. The Alley are straight up kind of people....we have a lot of fun, we rib each other hopelessly, but we all have one thing in common, we argue, and then we make up....cause that's what adults do and believe me, here in The Alley we do it exceptionally well...just read Christopher's posts...oooooops...*g*

So please, don't apologise....

HUGS
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


17 posted 10-27-2000 06:11 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Mark~ RG did it..I went over to 10 and POOF! It's gone.....like moderator magic!!   smile folks, life is short.   -SEA
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


18 posted 10-27-2000 06:39 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

SEA-Yeah maybe I should not have rolled over in the night huh????LOL That beer sounds good...my treat lol...and as for the move, yes, it is gone as I had emailed Sunshine and asked her to make it go poof and she did her moderator magic.  

RainbowGirl-Thank you, and as you will see, I am more or less the open forum kinda guy with visits to Spiritual as well.  This kind of forum is not my cup of tea but I am glad it is here.
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


19 posted 10-27-2000 07:17 PM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

The Spirit of Passions will never die, we won't lose this place, for so many have worked so hard and so long to make it is what it is today.

However, I do think people should be focusing on the good here, love, understanding and creativity for example.  Not looking for excuses to have a fight, or to hurl opinions around.

An old saying 'Lest said sooner mended' still rings true today.  People will always disagree but then it is up to BOTH parties to get on with it, back to normal.  Not who can have the last say, or who gives up first.

This isn't a place for people who like to get up on soapboxes, they are not wanted here.  We are all equals, it is a family of friends.

Normal families make up, forgive their arguements or differences we should do the same.

It should be a haven, not a place we fear to come for someone may condemn us.  Almost a poetry commune.

Those that want to be the centre attention.. people will soon see them for what they are... fakes, empty, users etc.

If we can all honestly say we do are best here, we are not quick to condemn, or start quarrels, if we 'love' and understand each other.  Then that is a good place to start.

All of us should rethink our existance here, and see if we are as good as we think we are.???

Passions, just like in life, is a place where being a smartass or know it all or just plain mean shouldn't be encouraged or rewarded.  People matter, feelings matter, love matters.  Not being a pain in the butt of the passions community.

There are my thoughts on the matter .. good or bad.  Funny thing I KNOW they are good..  

Peace one and all....

Isis

*I believe every time you put your words to paper, you change. Each feeling is set free, and you may follow.....*
~Isis~Goddess~~Sovereign of the Sp
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


20 posted 10-27-2000 07:23 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Mark~ You just make sure you remember what side to get in on!! LOL   You can get the first round of beers, I'll get the second....Smooch!   -SEA
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


21 posted 10-27-2000 07:41 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I'm in for whiskey, SEA---boiler makers, anyone?  lol...
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


22 posted 10-27-2000 07:48 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Mark, Ok, I'm maybe a little feisty tonight but...of one thing I can guarantee you:

I never make fun of anyone

I love wholeheartedly

I trust my friends

I'm honest, very much so, because I find that to be honest is to be kind, no, I don't hurt I use diplomacy, yes I hug a lot and yes, I try to think about the person, their attitude, their circumstances before responding and I take all of that into account....please don't misunderstand me...when I said we argue in here, I meant we argue knowing the personalities involved, how their day may be, their personal life...but most of all, we build here, we build relationships, caring ones, relationships that can be trusted....that's why it is fun....if I ever caused hurt in any of these forums I would shrivel into a tiny heap...but here I feel I can say when my heart is hurting and get an objective response, I can laugh at the silliest things and get laughter back or I can love my heart out and get so much love back, it hurts....

Words you know are our own choice, *we* decide how and whn to use them, what emphasis to put on them and when we make that choice we know the effect....mostly, I choose to be me, kind and caring but I will and can be angry at how day-to-day life affects me, thankfully having been around for a little while now, most know that I do care and when I hurt, it comes out, when I'm angry it comes out...because, that is me....WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get)...I just don't know, how to be any different...I've been on the end of gossip and couldn't retaliate andit hurt more than I can say...I've been on the end of words that charm you and that hurts your valuation of trust...so if I seem harsh I don't mean to be...I just find that weighing people up is part of caring and you adjust your words accordingly....so...unusually I will quote you at the end....

"RainbowGirl-Thank you, and as you will see, I am more or less the open forum kinda guy with visits to Spiritual as well.  This kind of forum is not my cup of tea but I am glad it is here."

Why is it not your cup of tea?  I add milk, sugar if required, the best teabags, a china cup and saucer, hugs and scones...did I forget the jam?

HUGS

Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


23 posted 10-27-2000 07:49 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

Isis-Thank you, my oringinal point "EXACTLY".

SEA-I promise to remember the correct side and stop in the middle for a kiss.  Okay, I got the first round and you can get the second, sharing and caring afterall, correct?

serenity-You got it...matter of fact, cowboy will take a pint of Jose Gold.
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 06-21-2000
Posts 7338
In the winds of Cherokee song


24 posted 10-27-2000 07:59 PM       View Profile for Mark Bohannan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mark Bohannan

RainbowGirl-Straight out...I hate to list reasons on a key board, I hate long emails, I hate to type period unless it is a "POEM" or a "HEARTFELT" reply to a "POEM".  I have read poetry since I was a kid and have only been writing since June of this year.  Discussions such as these I try to avoid because there are no voice fluctuations and or tones HEARD and we all know that many if not most words can be taken different ways by different people.  Plain and simple, if I can't hear the voice, I prefer not to get into heavy discussions with them.  I am here now because you do not know me and deserve to know and hopefully everyone will understand this.  If you have seen my poetry and my replies you will find that they too are purely from the heart 100% or I don't reply.  I do not read nor reply generically.  This can be both bad and good, depending on how it is taken and I will be the first to admit I OPENLY flirt big time, but those that KNOW me or have even read my poetry KNOW my heart and know when it is just friendly jest, ASK MY FRIEND SEA...she is my favorite partner in jest as of late and we get along great though we have NEVER spoken nor emailed outside of the blue pages..okay?  Will you accept that?  I also hug alot so Hugs to you too.
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