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Sven
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since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937
East Lansing, MI USA

0 posted 2000-10-27 01:03 PM


Is the title of this post something that we've all forgotten about?

In the past months, this place has turned into an arena. . . and things have happened.  Friends have been made, friends have been lost, people have left, people have come back, new memebers have arrived.  People have been hurt, people have been made into things that they're not. . . gossip and innuendo have run rampant. . . and lives changed. . . for the better. . .and for the worse. . .

This is supposed to be a haven from the world. . . not a reflection of it. . . we are supposed to be able to express ourselves however we want (in the proper ways) without fear of rejection or anger.  Or, am I wrong?  True, our poems do reflect what's going on in our lives. . . but do our actions have to be those of the world also?  Is this not a "Family of Friends"?  And yes, I know that every Family has it's problems. . . and that we're not going to be immune from all of them. . . but there's always respect and understanding there also. (or at least there should be)

But that hasn't happened. . . and believe me, I know. . . it's happened to me. . . and it's happened to others. . . I know that too. . . people said things here. . . they took risks, they put themselves and their reputations on the line. . . because they believed that they were doing the right thing, that they needed to say what they said, that they were defending their friends, or trying to prevent what happened to them from happening to someone else. . . and what did we do?  We shouted them down. . .we made them to feel as though they had no right to say what they did, in public and in private. . . we went on a witch hunt. . . that's the only thing that I can call it.

These people are to be commended for their actions. . . not belittled, not made into scapegoats. . . I know that if they were my friends, that I would thank the stars above that they would put themselves out there like that for me. . . that, my friends, is one of the true definitions of friendship. . . these people would dare try to help. . . and we would dare try to say that they're wrong. . .without getting the whole story. . .without seeing what's going to happen. . .no, we all make our judgements before hand and stick by them. . . and to a degree that's not wrong either, because we're trying to stick up for and behind who we're friends with. . . which is admirable. . . but, is it right?  That I can't answer. . .it's up to all of you to answer for yourselves. . .

Okay, I'm done. . . I know that it looks like I'm sitting the fence here. . . but I'm just trying to show both sides. . . trying to understand what's been going on and why. . . if I haven't, please forgive me. . .and please help me fill in the blanks. . . and I realize that I am probably going to get a lot of flack for this post myself. . . but it's what I feel. . .

I love Passions. . .and I love every poet that's here. . . I love that this place exists. . . I don't want to see it die. . . I don't want people to be hurt. . . without this place, for some of us. . . we would be dead. . . our lives would be empty. . . and that, my friends. . . would be the greatest tragedy of all. . .

Thanks to you all for listening. . .    

-----------------------------------------------------------------


< !signature-->

That which gives light must endure burning
--Victor Frankl





[This message has been edited by Sven (edited 10-27-2000).]

© Copyright 2000 John Garcia - All Rights Reserved
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
1 posted 2000-10-27 01:34 PM


You will not see me condemning you here on this day and you do not seem to me to be riding the fence at all.  I agree with the SPIRIT OF PASSIONS and for me...if I don't have it in writing then to me it is rumor and gossip...If I have it in writing...straight from the horses mouth (or pen as it would, or is that keyboard) then I will place it in the proper hands or in the proper light.  I agree with you as I said and if anyone has a problem with me , then deal with it via email or however they chose in private or shut up...don't need nor do I wish to have my battles in public forums and you are so right when you say that we have lost some good poets because of this.  It is not right...  Well stated but of course it would be from one of your talent with words.  Thank you for voicing your opinion.
Poet deVine
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since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612
Hurricane Alley
2 posted 2000-10-27 01:40 PM


Sven, there are going to be a lot of people who don't know what you're talking about. Because you have friends you talk to via email or ICQ, you know the background for what is/has been happening. So if we could concentrate on your first paragraph:

quote:

In the past months, this place has turned into an arena. . . and things have happened.  Friends have been made, friends have been lost, people have left, people have come back, new memebers have arrived.  People have been hurt, people have been made into things that they're not. . . gossip and innuendo have run rampant. . . and lives changed. . . for the better. . .and for the worse. . .




We've seen an ebb and flow of members for a long time and yes, we've seen anger (read the Alley archives). But we are dealing with people..with emotions. And I think because we WRITE our emotion into our poetry, poets are more apt to be emotional.

Can we have a fair and impersonal discussion about this? I'm not sure....we are after all only human.

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
3 posted 2000-10-27 02:18 PM


Sven - I know we've had our own disagreements in the past, and partially, this will be the same though hopefully not in the same manner.

because... I think the "Spirit of Passions" is based on the interaction of the people within. Diversity is one of the cornerstones of this interaction. Repeated again - if everyone agreed all the time, this would be a boring world indeed. It's the things which make us different that makes us special. Sometimes those things which are different aren't liked by everyone, but I think that if a few people out of 4,000+ don't get along all the time, it's still a darn good track record! You said "This is supposed to be a haven from the world... not a reflection of it..." But again, I have to disagree. The people of Passions are part of the world. You can't separate the two when the very thing that makes up the one comprises the other.

Call me (no, not that...) weird - But I don't see the true problem as it relates to Passions. If something's going on in someone's life, then they're dealing with the people, not the place. Passions provides a moderated place where people can interact. But the last thing we want to do (not suggesting you're saying this) is to control or try to moderate what happens to other's lives. These kind of things are things which should be dealt with on a personal level, one which Passions should, in my op, be separate from. It's my opinion that some people are losing that separation between the place and the people. Passions is a home. In homes there are rules and general courtesies that are expected to be followed. So if you visit someone's home, and have a problem with someone inside that home, is it the home's fault? No, it's an issue to be dealt with the person, not the home.

I commend your thoughtfulness for bringing this up Sven, I really do. But I think that focusing on Passions is the wrong approach. By doing it that way, you're likely to miss your intended targets and hit a lot of people that aren't involved. If you're having a problem with some members of your family, do you call all of them out and start calling names? No, you  go to the ones whom you have a problem with. Doing otherwise will often be more problematic than it's worth (as we both know).

Oh - and one more thing: I don't think you have to worry about Passions dying. While there is a small percentage of people who might be hurting it, there is a much larger percentage of those caring, considerate, kind, and strong people holding up the walls.

Chris

Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
4 posted 2000-10-27 02:27 PM


oh and Mark, no offense, but -

quote:
...don't need nor do I wish to have my battles in public forums...


you can't have it both ways bud!
/pip/Forum42/HTML/001908.html

Again, no offense - but when you do something like this, that's exactly what you're doing. This poem is instigating a battle, don't you think?

Chris

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

5 posted 2000-10-27 02:37 PM


For once, I am thrilled that I do not have a clue as to what is going on. But it is ironic to me, that I have dreams of world peace, and poets cannot get along. (I know, I know, spoken like I'm running for Miss Passions...lol)

But I am glad to see this discussion take place in it's proper place.  Let's not muck up the open forums.  It makes us all look bad.  (And I'd like to thank my mom and dad, and of course, all the judges, for this opportunity...tee hee!)

Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley
6 posted 2000-10-27 02:47 PM


Well said Chris!!!  
Sunshine
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Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354
Listening to every heart
7 posted 2000-10-27 03:10 PM


I'm going to have to start staying up at night so I can catch up on all of this...but then I'll be bone-tired in the morning and will call in sick to keep reading...

there's so much posted, apparently I've missed all of the "apt" pieces...

GROUP HUG, FOLKS....


Karilea
If I whisper, will you listen?...KRJ



SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
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Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676
with you
8 posted 2000-10-27 03:27 PM


I'm sorry feelings have been hurt
I'm sorry people feel they need to take sides
I'm sorry people are arguing
I'm sorry I have no clue as to what this is about
I'm sorry I feel so out of the loop  
I'm sorry I can't go to Reno this weekend...
............................................

I really don't know what is going on and why everyone is having a pissing contest, I just hope it stops. This place is so special to me.I've never had friends like you all before. Each and everyone of you are special to me. I hope things get straighted out fast. I mean, it's coming up to the Holidays...... Let it rest.   Please? -SEA

RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023
United Kingdom
9 posted 2000-10-27 04:04 PM


Someone wanna tell me what the heck this is about and yeah, thanks Chris for the link to Mark's poem but I still don't have a clue...

I think someone should whisper in my ear and I guess I'll just have to pretend that they're really telling me I'm.......ok...*g*

Seriously, Gossip is the *pits* and causes nothing but trouble and heartache...so, someone want to stand up and say it straight or will gossip win again?

HUGS all..

Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
10 posted 2000-10-27 05:21 PM


Chris-yes you are right and I have stayed out of it for months...as I said on one of my replies, my poem was and is crap and we should all move on to proper poetry.  I am not now nor will ever try to stir anything up without good cause or reason.  The reason, though I see it may be wrong or right was simply to draw attention to a matter to the moderators that has been going on for months.  As of today, I am as guilty as all that have been involved in this and I admit it, but if it all stops as of now then I consider it worth it.  It has to stop somewhere and I hope that this is it.  There are not any names mentioned in my replies nor will there ever be.  I apologize openly to you and to all the poets in passions and have no hard feelings toward anybody, I just want to read poetry that is not to out to condemn or to chase another poet off.  Hope you can see that side of it as well though I did not pick the proper forum, I chose it to make a point because that is where the other dozen were put up and to tell you the truth, I wish that a moderator would just put a lock on mine as maybe should have been done in the first place.  Thank you for your insight.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
11 posted 2000-10-27 05:23 PM


I think that one of the worst things one can do is to throw out hints and innuendos warning of impending doom while being careful not to say anything specific. Then people wonder, watch everyone, look for goblins in closets....if you have something to say....SAY IT...don't make vague accusations! Otherwise leave it alone and write poetry.

As Chris said, you don't have to worry about Passions dying..it is much stronger than a small group of dissident poets with delusions of grandeur over their power.

I shall now go slit my wrists for agreeing with Chris about anything.....

Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
12 posted 2000-10-27 05:43 PM


Balladeer-you are right and my lack of judgement I will admit to.  It was not aimed at any one in particular so will someone please either lock it so it cannot even be read or just plain delete the whole thing.  As I said, my lack of judgement in the manner and the forum.  I apologize to all.
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023
United Kingdom
13 posted 2000-10-27 05:43 PM


Well excuse me Mark...sorry I'm invisible to you, same as the others that don't have a clue what this is all about....

How the heck can we participate in a discussion if we don't know the facts?  Ok, you can leave names out of it but I'm just getting annoyed....if you guys want to hash over a problem in private, do so, but if you want public participation then at least be kind enough to acknowledge that we took time out to comment....

and no, I'm not annoyed with you Mark but fed up because this is just sparking off more comments...in my experience if you stand up and say whatever is bothering you people will add their comments and those that lurk will not think anything of it...when innuendo and dialogues such as these take place, well...even I'm wondering who we're talking about...see what I mean...sorry, I do tend to be straight as an arrow these days...

HUGS

Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
14 posted 2000-10-27 05:52 PM


RainbowGirl-To you and all those that have replied...I am not ignoring you and I am sorry that it seemed that way.  I was just replying to moderators to try to get something removed in open 10 that I posted in a huge lack of judgement.  I hope you will accept this as a true lesson of learning for me and it is on a subject that is not worth carrying on if it is going to pinpoint anyone.  I simply am here to read good poetry and that is it and just woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning.lol..thank you for participating and for your concern and I finally have the post moved and locked as I wanted.  Hope to see you around in the forums with smiles as I will be.  I too have NO hard feelings toward anybody.  Thank you all.
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676
with you
15 posted 2000-10-27 05:58 PM


Mark~ that's because you didn't wake up on MY side... Com'mon let's all have a beer and cool our heels.......It's Friday!   -SEA
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023
United Kingdom
16 posted 2000-10-27 05:59 PM


Mark...

First thing, I appreciate you have something valid to say and I'll respond to it....but if you want a mod to delete a poem I can think of several ways to do so:

1) edit the content if within the 24 hour guidelines

2) ask one...please mod, delete this post, it's causing problems I never intended....and whoosh, it will be gone as if by magic...

Apology accepted but wasn't really necessary, this is The Alley after all...*g*...but we're adults Mark and most that reply in these forums, i.e. The Alley are straight up kind of people....we have a lot of fun, we rib each other hopelessly, but we all have one thing in common, we argue, and then we make up....cause that's what adults do and believe me, here in The Alley we do it exceptionally well...just read Christopher's posts...oooooops...*g*

So please, don't apologise....

HUGS

SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676
with you
17 posted 2000-10-27 06:11 PM


Mark~ RG did it..I went over to 10 and POOF! It's gone.....like moderator magic!!   smile folks, life is short.   -SEA
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
18 posted 2000-10-27 06:39 PM


SEA-Yeah maybe I should not have rolled over in the night huh????LOL That beer sounds good...my treat lol...and as for the move, yes, it is gone as I had emailed Sunshine and asked her to make it go poof and she did her moderator magic.  

RainbowGirl-Thank you, and as you will see, I am more or less the open forum kinda guy with visits to Spiritual as well.  This kind of forum is not my cup of tea but I am glad it is here.

Isis
Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296
Sunny Queensland
19 posted 2000-10-27 07:17 PM


The Spirit of Passions will never die, we won't lose this place, for so many have worked so hard and so long to make it is what it is today.

However, I do think people should be focusing on the good here, love, understanding and creativity for example.  Not looking for excuses to have a fight, or to hurl opinions around.

An old saying 'Lest said sooner mended' still rings true today.  People will always disagree but then it is up to BOTH parties to get on with it, back to normal.  Not who can have the last say, or who gives up first.

This isn't a place for people who like to get up on soapboxes, they are not wanted here.  We are all equals, it is a family of friends.

Normal families make up, forgive their arguements or differences we should do the same.

It should be a haven, not a place we fear to come for someone may condemn us.  Almost a poetry commune.

Those that want to be the centre attention.. people will soon see them for what they are... fakes, empty, users etc.

If we can all honestly say we do are best here, we are not quick to condemn, or start quarrels, if we 'love' and understand each other.  Then that is a good place to start.

All of us should rethink our existance here, and see if we are as good as we think we are.???

Passions, just like in life, is a place where being a smartass or know it all or just plain mean shouldn't be encouraged or rewarded.  People matter, feelings matter, love matters.  Not being a pain in the butt of the passions community.

There are my thoughts on the matter .. good or bad.  Funny thing I KNOW they are good..  

Peace one and all....

Isis

*I believe every time you put your words to paper, you change. Each feeling is set free, and you may follow.....*
~Isis~Goddess~~Sovereign of the Sp

SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676
with you
20 posted 2000-10-27 07:23 PM


Mark~ You just make sure you remember what side to get in on!! LOL   You can get the first round of beers, I'll get the second....Smooch!   -SEA
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

21 posted 2000-10-27 07:41 PM


I'm in for whiskey, SEA---boiler makers, anyone?  lol...
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023
United Kingdom
22 posted 2000-10-27 07:48 PM


Mark, Ok, I'm maybe a little feisty tonight but...of one thing I can guarantee you:

I never make fun of anyone

I love wholeheartedly

I trust my friends

I'm honest, very much so, because I find that to be honest is to be kind, no, I don't hurt I use diplomacy, yes I hug a lot and yes, I try to think about the person, their attitude, their circumstances before responding and I take all of that into account....please don't misunderstand me...when I said we argue in here, I meant we argue knowing the personalities involved, how their day may be, their personal life...but most of all, we build here, we build relationships, caring ones, relationships that can be trusted....that's why it is fun....if I ever caused hurt in any of these forums I would shrivel into a tiny heap...but here I feel I can say when my heart is hurting and get an objective response, I can laugh at the silliest things and get laughter back or I can love my heart out and get so much love back, it hurts....

Words you know are our own choice, *we* decide how and whn to use them, what emphasis to put on them and when we make that choice we know the effect....mostly, I choose to be me, kind and caring but I will and can be angry at how day-to-day life affects me, thankfully having been around for a little while now, most know that I do care and when I hurt, it comes out, when I'm angry it comes out...because, that is me....WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get)...I just don't know, how to be any different...I've been on the end of gossip and couldn't retaliate andit hurt more than I can say...I've been on the end of words that charm you and that hurts your valuation of trust...so if I seem harsh I don't mean to be...I just find that weighing people up is part of caring and you adjust your words accordingly....so...unusually I will quote you at the end....

"RainbowGirl-Thank you, and as you will see, I am more or less the open forum kinda guy with visits to Spiritual as well.  This kind of forum is not my cup of tea but I am glad it is here."

Why is it not your cup of tea?  I add milk, sugar if required, the best teabags, a china cup and saucer, hugs and scones...did I forget the jam?

HUGS


Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
23 posted 2000-10-27 07:49 PM


Isis-Thank you, my oringinal point "EXACTLY".

SEA-I promise to remember the correct side and stop in the middle for a kiss.  Okay, I got the first round and you can get the second, sharing and caring afterall, correct?

serenity-You got it...matter of fact, cowboy will take a pint of Jose Gold.

Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
24 posted 2000-10-27 07:59 PM


RainbowGirl-Straight out...I hate to list reasons on a key board, I hate long emails, I hate to type period unless it is a "POEM" or a "HEARTFELT" reply to a "POEM".  I have read poetry since I was a kid and have only been writing since June of this year.  Discussions such as these I try to avoid because there are no voice fluctuations and or tones HEARD and we all know that many if not most words can be taken different ways by different people.  Plain and simple, if I can't hear the voice, I prefer not to get into heavy discussions with them.  I am here now because you do not know me and deserve to know and hopefully everyone will understand this.  If you have seen my poetry and my replies you will find that they too are purely from the heart 100% or I don't reply.  I do not read nor reply generically.  This can be both bad and good, depending on how it is taken and I will be the first to admit I OPENLY flirt big time, but those that KNOW me or have even read my poetry KNOW my heart and know when it is just friendly jest, ASK MY FRIEND SEA...she is my favorite partner in jest as of late and we get along great though we have NEVER spoken nor emailed outside of the blue pages..okay?  Will you accept that?  I also hug alot so Hugs to you too.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia
25 posted 2000-10-27 08:02 PM


um.. can I get a Jack Daniels?
Mark Bohannan
Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269
In the winds of Cherokee song
26 posted 2000-10-27 08:23 PM


Local Rebel-You got it...would you like that to be a double or just the whole bottle?
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 1999-07-31
Posts 3023
United Kingdom
27 posted 2000-10-27 08:24 PM


Sweetheart: make mine a cognac and get me out of this mess...you'be known me for years....how come I type what's in my heart and I end up with a "clickable human response"............

**** Rebel....thank heavens you alone know me for who I am...I don;t say words for the sake of it, I don't flirt, ****....that's heartache....why can't we just value ourselves....I leave the question open, I'm fed up of people and their ego's....can someone just try being a friend?  I'd sure appreciate it.....

As I say: Lovers come and go, friends stay the course....thankfully!

Yes, I'm a bit outspoken this evening and I'll say why cause I'm ....cause I'm that way....it's my only daughter's birthday on Sunday and she died...the momoeries are appalling....on Sunday I will have a hysterectomy so can't even be here then...so who am I...I don't even have an answer to that so I guess I'm not qualified on any of the above either.

[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 10-27-2000).]

Irie
Senior Member
since 1999-12-01
Posts 1493
Washington State
28 posted 2000-10-27 08:36 PM


This is one of those moments where my feelings are split......
Hey, I'm woman, I'm allowed!   Hehe



~Sheri

"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"



StarPryncess17
Senior Member
since 2000-05-31
Posts 932
Colorado
29 posted 2000-10-27 08:48 PM


I have argued my opinion on this more times than I can remember...all I can say right at this moment... is I'M SORRY!!

*Being an angel doesn't mean having a halo or wings, it means doing the right thing and wanting to make a difference*


SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676
with you
30 posted 2000-10-27 09:26 PM


Mark~ I will meet you in the middle my love..... and if we've moved to the hard stuff, better get me a jack-n-coke then look out cause after a few, I'm kinda out of control........

RG~ Sweet sweet lady, my heart goes out to you...what can I possibly say??? Hugs to you my dear sweet friend.

-SEA

Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937
East Lansing, MI USA
31 posted 2000-10-27 10:29 PM


Thank you all for your participation in this discussion.  All of your opinions are welcomed and encouraged.

First of all, let me say that this post was in no way directed at any one person.  If someone feels that it was, I apologize, it's just that I've been seeing too much of this and I'm tired of it.  It does nothing to further the cause of Passions, and all it does it cause hurt feelings and makes us lose good poets and good friends.  

I would like to single out some comments.  If I may. . .

Christopher:
quote:
I commend your thoughtfulness for bringing this up Sven, I really do. But I think that focusing on Passions is the wrong approach. By doing it that way, you're likely to miss your intended targets and hit a lot of people that aren't involved. If you're having a problem with some members of your family, do you call all of them out and start calling names? No, you  go to the ones whom you have a problem with. Doing otherwise will often be more problematic than it's worth (as we both know).

Oh - and one more thing: I don't think you have to worry about Passions dying. While there is a small percentage of people who might be hurting it, there is a much larger percentage of those caring, considerate, kind, and strong people holding up the walls.


I think that you have said it correctly Christopher.  Better than I did.  And I know that I may have gone a little overboard here, but I just didn't know how else to approach this.  It was just something that I felt needed to be said. . . and now that I've said it, I will retire back to why I'm here. . . to write and read poetry.  Oh, and yes. . . to participate in wonderful discussions here in The Alley.  

And I know that you and I and all the other people who value Passions will do whatever is necessary to help make sure that Passions is here for all of us. . . and for that, I am thankful.  

And one more thing. . . I appreciate your other comment also!  

proceeding to follow Balladeer in the action of slitting my wrists for agreeing with Christopher about anything  

Isis:
quote:
This isn't a place for people who like to get up on soapboxes, they are not wanted here.  We are all equals, it is a family of friends.

Normal families make up, forgive their arguements or differences we should do the same.

It should be a haven, not a place we fear to come for someone may condemn us.  Almost a poetry commune.


You are absolutely right my friend.  This is a "Family of Friends" and it should always be.  

We should be able to not hold grudges and move on from them.  This should be a haven, a place of acceptance.  It might not always be. . . but it should try to be.  

Thank you!  

RG, thank you for your honest, open responses. . . my heart also goes out to you my friend. . . you always seem to know how to make me laugh. . . and your words have not fallen on deaf ears here. . .  

Okay, that's all. . . I'm done. . . if anyone else has anything to say. . .please feel free. . . if not. . . let's get back to having fun, writing poetry, and making this the best place to be. . .

Our Family of Friends!!!!!

Thank you all again. . .  

------------------------------------------------------------




That which gives light must endure burning
--Victor Frankl


Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
32 posted 2000-10-27 11:13 PM


quote:
This isn't a place for people who like to get up on soapboxes, they are not wanted here.


So basically you're saying I'm not wanted here? Seriously though, I disagree with even this. People should be valued for their opinions, strongly stated or otherwise. I don't know about anyone else, but I see the Alley as a soapbox. I like my soapbox. I like it when others get up on their soapbox. It's this very concept which also enhances our diversity. Without strong and differing opinions, we'd all be bbbooorrreeeddd. *yawn*

Every person in here (including myself) who has stated an opinion has gotten up on the Alley Soapbox.   I don't think that's so bad, do you?

Chris


Isis
Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296
Sunny Queensland
33 posted 2000-10-27 11:18 PM


I believe we are all in agreeance here.  And THAT is the way it should be...
Namaste
Isis

*I believe every time you put your words to paper, you change. Each feeling is set free, and you may follow.....*
~Isis~Goddess~~Sovereign of the Sp

Isis
Member Ascendant
since 1999-09-06
Posts 6296
Sunny Queensland
34 posted 2000-10-27 11:25 PM


Oh Chris I see!!  It is hard to define up on a soap box really...

Ummm...  Alright I'll further it a bit... soapbox being shooting off at the mouth, broadcasting for the sake of merely getting attention or 'their' point across.

I love a good topic to debate as much as the next person.  Hey I love the alley too!!  
This sort of thing is fine.

It is when it gets angry, bitter and hurtful, that is what we DON"T need.  We can get our opinions across without slander or violence for we are writers......

That is what I mean just getting on the soapbox to make sure everyone knows your opinion whether it is right or wrong is wrong.  For there is always so much more involved - facts, truth or lies, and people's feelings.  And people's feelings and emotions are the touchstone of who and what they are.  We may not agree with them but must respect them...

Does that help any>??

*I believe every time you put your words to paper, you change. Each feeling is set free, and you may follow.....*
~Isis~Goddess~~Sovereign of the Sp

Parker
Member Elite
since 2000-01-06
Posts 3129
ON
35 posted 2000-10-27 11:47 PM


Sorry and I don't want to make light of the seriousness of this post.....

But I think we should get on with the judging of the swim suit portion of this program..... MISS PASSIONS.... that would be your cue... serenity.. please strut down center stage in your skimpyest... and be judged...  

since she wants to be Miss Passions...I want to be Mr. Judge.

So everybody be quiet while I concentrate here, and then you can go back to your most serious discussion.

Here we go.....
serenity                                                                           RainBowGirl                                                                   SEA                                                                             Irie                                                                              StarPryncess17                                                   Isis                                                                            Sunshine                                                              Poet DeVine                                            Christopher
                            10 10 10              anybody else                                  10 10 10                                                   10 10 10                                                                         10 10 10                                                                         10 10 10                                                             woo hoo 10 10 10                                                     10 10 10                                                                10 10 10                                                                          Chris get off the stage                    Well your all winners, even you Chris.  

Parker
Member Elite
since 2000-01-06
Posts 3129
ON
36 posted 2000-10-27 11:51 PM


Oh, yes great discussion.... sorry to interrupt.....

Parker

Poertree
Senior Member
since 1999-11-05
Posts 1359
UK
37 posted 2000-10-28 10:41 AM


KICK




YOUR SOAPBOX JUST COLLAPSED CHRIS - LOL

dgvarner
Member Elite
since 2000-05-13
Posts 3552
High Springs, Florida
38 posted 2000-10-28 12:50 PM


this "cwap" makes me tired...

heehee..parker made a funny....  

hugs and stuff..dg

Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906
Sitting in Michael's Lap
39 posted 2000-10-29 03:20 PM


Argh ...

I will first qualify (or disqualify, as the case may be) my reply by saying that I have not read this entire dialogue ... I skimmed over the original post and some of the key points made in the first few replies.  Somehow, I don't think that reading the entire thing was necessary.

There will never exist a gathering, whether real or virtual, of human company in which there is no disagreement.  We all dream about idyllic situations and "everybody getting along," but if we were to be truly honest with ourselves, we would all realize that such fantasies are just that -- fantasies.  And not even very interesting ones, I might add.

The human culture -- and on a more basic level, the human psyche -- is built on controversy.  We're not happy unless we have a problem to solve.  Now, before anyone pipes up with "Why can't we just work together to solve any problem that comes up?", let me remind you that there are a million ways to approach the solution to any problem, and there is absolutely no way that ALL of us will agree on ONE method.  Period.  I have friends on the forums -- some of them close friends -- and I don't even agree with THEM all the time; why would it be any different with the ones I don't personally know?  Not to mention that there are a few people here that I have developed somewhat of a distaste for, for various reasons.  (whispers of Oh my GOD, I don't believe she SAID that, the lousy INSURRECTIONIST!')  Yeah, whatever, people -- as far as I'm concerned, if everyone here LIKES me, I've not been doing my job right ...  

In a nutshell, Passions IS a reflection of society -- live with it.

--Linda


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

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