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Passions in Poetry

American escapism?!

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Poertree
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since 11-05-1999
Posts 1413
UK


0 posted 11-16-2000 07:30 AM       View Profile for Poertree   Email Poertree   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poertree

Ok this has been bothering me for a while now, and the recent debacle, oops ..  i mean election  in Florida has got me thinking (an achievement in itself  )....

you see, the UK press are having a great time pointing out the differences in the US system and how of course they knew all along it wouldn't work - and moreover how if, after Independence, they'd stuck with the tried and tested English model pregnant chads wouldn't now be about to determine the next US President ...

all of which brought me back to my perennial musing which centres on the ways America seems to go out of its way to be different ... i mean forget the fact that the word centres which I've just used would, over there, be "centers" - what about SPORT????  

here we have the rest of the "civilised world" playing Soccer (actually correctly termed football), Rugby and of course most of all Cricket, and look at the US .... er....

American football .... wassat??!....lol
Baseball (over here known as "Rounders" played by all the best girls schools only)
Basketball (over here known as "Netball" played by all the best girls schools only)

I can't help feeling that (apart from any Freudian connotations arising from the coincidental (?) association with the sports practised in our best female seminaries) there has got to be a reason why the US determinedly seems to avoid confrontation with other countries in the major sporting arenas preferring its own insular leagues..

Is this a manifestation of basic insecurity or simply a form of blatant escapism?      

OLIAS
Senior Member
since 06-20-2000
Posts 1031
Pearl city Iowa


1 posted 11-16-2000 10:07 AM       View Profile for OLIAS   Email OLIAS   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for OLIAS

RIGHT ON MATE !!!! (lol)

ENGERLAND! ENGERLAND! ENGERLAND!

Regards Philip
Olias.
jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


2 posted 11-16-2000 11:17 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Actually, Philip, Americans don't have a problem with cricket, rugby or soccer, per se.  We are a vain lot and simply wouldn't be caught dead wearing a cricket uniform.  Soccer players wear socks that go over the calves (went out of fashion in the 1980's over here) and rugby ... well ... quite simply, it is a barbaric game.

Don't get me wrong ... I am an avid [American] football fan and can appreciate a good "hit" any day of the week.  But rugby players don't even wear helmets!!!      I love rugby shirts, though, and I do own a few.  

Perhaps the problem isn't American escapism ... perhaps Western Europe is simply stuck in a traditional mode.  While soccer is a blast to play, it is an exercise in yaaawwwwwwniiiinnnngggg to watch.  I'll stick to watching Monday Night Football and the Oakland Raiders (they're 8-2 this year!!!).

Then again, maybe we are blatant escapists.  But atleast our major sports teams look cool.     

Later.

Jim



[This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 11-16-2000).]
warmhrt
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since 12-18-1999
Posts 1566


3 posted 11-16-2000 11:45 AM       View Profile for warmhrt   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for warmhrt

PT,

I do agree that this was an achievement. LOL
You also pointed out that I was thoroughly right about your press!

However, on the rest of the points, I must side with Jim, who made a very good argument for us Revolutionaries. What we did was break the mold, and we kept breaking away from staid, old traditional ways.

We're smart...like Jim said...Brits and other rugby players don't wear helmets. Wonder how many guys there are walking around the British Isles, Australia, and other traditional countries with a TBI...probably thousands upon thousands. No wonder you can't move forward...difficult thing to do when it hurts to think too much. lol  

That form of a sport...hunting...where you let a pack of dogs out and follow them on horses...does that have a name? Anyway, I don't like the way they hunt deer here, or any other animal, I suppose (it's deer season now), but the English way is the most unsporting, lazy way I've ever heard of.   I hope they don't still do that, do they?

I'm really not a huge sports fan (hockey, tennis, skiing), but I have to remain true to my home on this one...we have moved forward, while you guys have a country full of hidden head injuries.      
mia

...got to be somewhere better than in the middle...~Wallflowers

[This message has been edited by miapoetess (edited 11-16-2000).]
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


4 posted 11-16-2000 12:03 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I won't disagree with anything my compatriots said, other than to mention that I think they're overlooking the #1 driving force in our sports - barbaric or not: MONEY!

You bloody Brits just aren't willing to pay our athletes enough...
jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


5 posted 11-16-2000 12:34 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Mia:

I think it is fox hunting you are describing.  Philip ... do you Brits still dress up in those bright red, tight riding suits when you go fox hunting?

Philip:

Geeze ... with Mia on my side, you better hang it up right now and cry "uncle"!

Christopher:

Maybe that's just it, Christopher.  Perhaps the old, traditional sports just aren't marketable enough to generate multi-million dollar contracts (Have you ever heard of Nike soliciting a contract with a cricket player?).

    

Later guys.

Jim

P.S.  Did you know that guys play field hockey in Europe? *snicker*
Dopey Dope
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6 posted 11-16-2000 03:14 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

I'm going to have to agree with christopher on this......mula....mula....mula...we have some of the best athletes in the world and it's just sad to think what us amercan football players would do to any other country. The death toll would be amazing.



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!

Not A Poet
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since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


7 posted 11-16-2000 04:35 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.

First you bring up the election and I seriously give it the benefit of the doubt in calling it that. My suggestion is to forget all this BS with the pregnant chads, politicians, lawyers, judges and people too stupid to punch the ballot. The best resolution is to send Bush and Gore out behind the barn and let them settle it like men. Whoever come back inside is the next president. But then if neither makes it back, we still need some way to get rid of The Slick One. With any luck we will come out of this with a president who can at least keep his pants on in the oval office.

Now, on to sports. Yes, I'm afraid that money rules in this country. What some of those guys knock down is just obscene. But what's even worse is when they go on strike for more. I mean, give me a break here, you can't make it on $10,000,000 per year? BS again.

If I'm not mistaken, and I don't think I am, basketball has become an international sport. Perhaps not as much so as soccer (football I mean) but, judging from the olympics, quite widespread. Although I really can't understand why it would be popular, just seems to be a bunch of overly tall guys running from one end of the room to the other sticking a little ball through a ring then someone in a striped shirt blowing a whistle and yelling foul. Pretty pointless if you ask me.

Now, I have to admit that American style football can seem pretty slow moving and it's pretty much confined to this continent (US and Canada) but I think there is a professional league in Europe also. And exhibition games in Mexico and Japan have drawn huge crowds. So, who knows. I played football in highschool and was a big fan for years. In recent years I have sort of lost interest, that is, unless the Sooners are good. Guess that's the definition of a fair weather fan. BTW, I recall seeing some Austrailian rules football. You talk about a completely incomprehensible game, looks more like what we used to call grabass.

Philip, you speak poorly of baseball. Again, it can be fairly slow moving but did you ever try to hit a little ball with a little stick when it is coming at you nearly 100 miles/hour? Add to that the fact that you have to get it by 9 guys who don't want that to happen and it becomes quite a challenge.

Finally Philip, civilized (with a Z, BTW) or not, I'm afraid you've stepped over the line of credibility when you suggest cricket as a worthy game.

OK JMHO,
Pete
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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8 posted 11-16-2000 05:11 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

somebody mention football? grin---

don't really have an opinion on the rest--don't really care...but Jim? yer Raiders are indeed awesome this year, and I'll be watching with tears in my eyes on Sunday as they play the Saints...and we just lost Ricky Williams to a broken ankle...and all of this is making me want a beer...
Severn
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since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


9 posted 11-16-2000 05:39 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

HUMPH...you could've waited P

Not talking to YOU

Jim - Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me but I don't think I can let you get away with calling our national game barbaric.

Rugby is for REAL men..who don't need to wear pouncy little shoulder pads and face painty things and HELMETS...tch

you Americans NEED to watch a game of rugby if you haven't already and be prepared to be IMPRESSED...

SO THERE

(especially you JIM)

lol

K
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 11-16-2000 05:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I like rugby.
Dark Angel
Member Patricius
since 08-04-99
Posts 10270


11 posted 11-16-2000 05:49 PM       View Profile for Dark Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dark Angel

I am going to have to side with Kamla here,
Rugby is for REAL men, K you forgot to mention the tights American footballers wear, LOL the only thing missing are the wings  

Maree  

[This message has been edited by Dark Angel (edited 11-16-2000).]
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


12 posted 11-16-2000 06:09 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

A friend of mine plays recreational rugby. Crazy SOB but I wouldn't want to piss him off   He has an interesting tee shift that reads, "Give blood - Play rugby"

Pete
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


13 posted 11-16-2000 06:29 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Ya'll left out some stuff. Want bloody? Go for lacrosse, roller derby, or arena ball. What's arena ball? It's like football (American) but with 50 yards instead of 100, bare minimal protection (helmet, sometimes shoulder pads), no sidelines, and half the amount of guys, just enough to play offensive and defense. If you lose players from injury, oh well...just gotta keep going on with what you have. It definately turns into a war of attrition. And if you get pushed out of bounds, you either bounce off the wall, or in those more ritzy places, bounce off a padded wall.

I have an idea for keeping games from being slow and sluggish: exploding balls with a timer. The blast radius would make the game more interesting, as well as fostering legalized gambling, and the timer would be set to an undetermined time....  
Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
Posts 3219
Blue Heaven


14 posted 11-16-2000 08:39 PM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

The United States has both the best and the most difficult form of political organization- the most difficult, because it is the best. Perhaps though they should all be reminded of something our first President said; "Such is the turbulence of human passion in party disputes, when victory more than truth is contended for, that the post of honor is a private station." (perhaps we could forward that quote to CNN use...lol)

ps-- soccer is most popular here with girls teams-- both the finest and the worst. The only males who play are the ones who could not make the grade for battle on the gridiron.




Jamie

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil.
"Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely".

wayoutwalt
Member Ascendant
since 06-22-99
Posts 5106
TEXAS (it's all big)


15 posted 11-17-2000 09:22 AM       View Profile for wayoutwalt   Email wayoutwalt   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wayoutwalt

and we got roy rodgers!!!
Poertree
Senior Member
since 11-05-1999
Posts 1413
UK


16 posted 11-17-2000 10:44 AM       View Profile for Poertree   Email Poertree   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poertree

Olias
......lol..you don't fool me ...~grin~ i know you're really a confirmed yankeephile - you MUST be  


Jim

quote:
But rugby players don't even wear helmets!!!


yeah they are REAL men!  

quote:
While soccer is a blast to play, it is an exercise in yaaawwwwwwniiiinnnngggg to watch


you mean you don't find David Beckham ..  exciting? ....er... well, maybe his WIFE then ?????  surely...heh  

nice to see ya jim btw.....

and pssssstttt .... dismayed to find i agree with most of what you say ...lol


Mia

you get cuter each time i stumble across ya!  

regrettably there isn't much i disagree with you about - and there is something you just mentioned with which i happen to agree very strongly ..... hunting...well killing of any animal or bird for pleasure ... totally vile in IMO.  And, yes, I'm very ashamed to say that (under the excuse of  "preserving the countryside") people still fox and stag hunt here, though the pressure is building for it to be made unlawful.  People who are in favour of it like to pretend that the arguments are complex and they introduce employment and conservation issues to support what in my opinion, is no more or less than totally unnecessary cruelty.  ok sorry to rant, you just picked prolly the one topic that i can't get jovial about .... I'll shut up now.... oh also i wrote a poem on this once but of course i cant mail it to ya!!


Chris

....have you any idea what the transfer fees are for a top footballer??

..... "bloody"!!? ...... you becoming a Brit now?


Jim (again)

~sigh~ yes they do still wear them - as i believe fox hunts in Maryland do as well!

~puzzled frown~ is there any other type of hockey?


Dopey

level playing field please .... strip your guys of all their fancy armour plating, then lets see who ends up dead ....heh  


Pete

actually ..we are kinda enjoying the election - it makes a refreshing change from our own dumb politics ....sheesh ...robin cook .....!!! give me strength ...!

10000000 !!!!...... ooops ..i take it back chris..lol

quote:
If I'm not mistaken, and I don't think I am, basketball has become an international sport.


..hummm you mean that you and Mexico play it??? ........ your point???  


quote:
but did you ever try to hit a little ball with a little stick when it is coming at you nearly 100 miles/hour? Add to that the fact that you have to get it by 9 guys who don't want that to happen and it becomes quite a challenge.

Finally Philip, civilized (with a Z, BTW) or not, I'm afraid you've stepped over the line of credibility when you suggest cricket as a worthy game.


....but wait...pete ....one moment ...pause awhile and reflect on your own words ... "but did you ever try to hit a little ball with a little stick when it is coming at you nearly 100 miles/hour? Add to that the fact that you have to get it by 9 guys" ...... you just DESCRIBED cricket perfectly except of course we make it more difficult by having 11 guys instead of your feeble 9........ heh     

lol  thanks pete


Ms S

forget the football ..did you say BEER .......lol...real beer?  or some iced watered down muck??? ~grin back~


LK

...ha ....we agree for once ...lol  


Brad

...that was profound .......should we move this thread to 101...????  


MM

..  of course we ALWAYS agree ..nothing new there ..  

and btw don't feel too bad about siding with K ..she is occasionally  right yanno....  


Pete (again)

lol


My favourite Persian

quote:
I have an idea for keeping games from being slow and sluggish: exploding balls with a timer. The blast radius would make the game more interesting, as well as fostering legalized gambling, and the timer would be set to an undetermined time....


... geez..... who let you out, come back Justin Sane all is forgiven ...lol   ... reminds me of "The Running Man"


Jamie

quote:
The United States has both the best


if you say so jamie ~smirk~

quote:
and the most difficult form of political organization


you don't say!!

quote:
soccer is most popular here with girls teams-- both the finest and the worst. The only males who play are the ones who could not make the grade for battle on the gridiron.


hummphhhh ........  


Walt

Ray who??  ......ohhhhhh you mean the TV chef?...yeah ... i mean yuh yuh ..  


Later

Philip



[This message has been edited by Poertree (edited 11-17-2000).]
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