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Passions in Poetry

Depression and pills

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Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


0 posted 02-21-2001 08:36 PM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

I am writing this, because it seems that an increasing number of people believe the problem of depression can be solved by pills.

I have suffered from depression and sought medical attention, the answer take these pills and come back in a month.
While the pills helped they did not deal with the issues that had caused the depression in the first place and it seems that in addition to medicating the problem there are very few people willing to talk about depression.

I desperately needed someone to talk to and it seemed there was no forum anywhere to do that.

I am writing here because as poets some of you may also have had some experience of depression and I want to know. Am I the exception. Do pills provide the be all end all answer and if not why is there no additional support here at the point of contact.

I understand that none of you are professionals and not qualified to counsel but so many do pseudo counselling anyway because there are no other resources. I believe this can sometimes do more harm than good.

Likewise when poems that express suicidal thoughts are suppressed it creates untold damage.
Therefore if you agree that pills are not the only answer. I AM ASKING THAT AN OPEN DISCUSSION BE HELD ABOUT WHAT SUPPORTS PASSIONS CAN OFFER TO PEOPLE IN PAIN.




Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


1 posted 02-21-2001 09:07 PM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

I agree Kethry! If it was clearly announced in a new forum that no - one is an expert and cannot offer medical advice, but is willing to listen and offer sympathy and the like, would it be a good thing? Kind of like a Dear Abbey type of thing.

But as a moderator I can also see that we could be blamed for not helping, making matters worse, or even causing someone to hurt themselves.

We should have a little American and Aussie network where we can perhaps refer someone?

Again I realise it is a lot of work and responsibility for Passions to undertake.. but what can we do to help our Passions friends when they really do need some extra support?

Like myself, we can send caring emails, just to let the person no we care. But can we do more? If so how?

Pills only cover up the problem. I realise it is not passions responsibility to do these things, but sometimes with our family of friends, if we can show the depressed member of our family we DO care, it might just be a turning point or a start to the recovery in their lives...

Like you say pills help you feel better, but they don't solve the issue that caused the depression or anger or violence or whatever in the first place. It's a quickie solution but definitely not THE solution. People need to talk to air their fears etc.

It has me stumped too, all I know is I personally, am tired of reading about our Passions people problems and feeling useless, like I can't help....

Is there anything more we can do? Or is it best for Passions and therefore all of us, just to send wishes of love and understanding and the offer of an ear if needed?

What does everyone else think????

Isis

*War produces one thing - Cemetaries. And in cemetaries there are no enemies!*
~Isis~~Sovereign of the Spirit.




[This message has been edited by Isis (edited 02-21-2001).]
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


2 posted 02-21-2001 09:24 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, not many know this, but I'm depressive, and have had to deal with such over the course of my life. While in college, this depression turned suicidal after the traffic death of a very very close friend. So, I sought the counselling services offered gratis to students. No pills were offered, no shots administered. Just a psychological battery (which proved worthless) and talking. Now, well, I simply take depression in stride, and have chosen not to ignore the problem (like that would solve anything), but by facing it and seeing it with an improved perspective. Personal outlook is everything.

Perhaps writing will help. Not cathartic..well, maybe a little cathartic, but more absurdist, poking fun and making light of the situation. This will more often than not defuse the source of the depression, or at least allow a different perspective, and how the problem can be resolved. But I understand that what works for me may not work for someone else.

I hope, for the other depressives out there, that you can learn to handle it without the need for medication, as there are very very few medicines that do not have side-effects...except for placebos, but those are psychosomatic. Remember that you always have an option, based upon your outlook and perspective.


Alicat
X Angel
Senior Member
since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


3 posted 02-21-2001 09:37 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

This summer I had a backwards experience with depression and pills. I was depressed and didn't realise it....and the doctor gave me some Valium in hopes of easing some major tension headaches I was having. The hubby announced he was leaving me. Lo and behold I became a disconsolate cryaholic who couldn't function. I drank a lil wine, cried a lil more, took more pills for a headache that wouldn't stop, the pills increased the depression, as did the couple of glasses of wine every other night or so. Suddenly I was not myself at all and had to think quick...so for ages I stopped drinking and I threw the Valium as far and as fast as I could away! I didn't drink again til my trip to England this December. (note for any of ya who care...LOL....I was NOT in any way shape or form depressed while I was there lemme tell ya what!!)
I think pills suck period (that's my 2 cents to this thread.)
*hugs*
~H

Oh and how I deal with feeling depressed, well I talk to Colin and he makes me pull my head out of my (you know) and get off my (you know) and face things. Yep dat's the clue here...talking and facing your problems. I think that's so much more valuable than pills anyday!


A woman has got to love a bad man once or twice in her life to be thankful for a good one.
Mae West (1892-1980)



[This message has been edited by X Angel (edited 02-21-2001).]
Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


4 posted 02-21-2001 09:40 PM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

Isis thanks for responding,
it does seem that Dark Passions is a magnet for the deeper side of life so maybe you see more of it than I do. However it's a little discouraging that you have no more answers than me. Maybe that's what it is about anyway, talking with friends who can support.

Alicat,
I agree we need to be a little absurd and learn to laugh at ourselves. But it still seems that pills are being presented as the only alternative. I'm not saying I would go off the pills without the doctor's approval. It's just that they haven't changed anything for me except that now I also deal with the side effects. I have also tried your strategies and not write too catharically sometimes the depression leaks out and then when a post gets pulled I feel like I'm being punished. And yes I understand the rationale it just doesn't change the emotion. Sorry to rave here but I need to put my point across or explode.


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


5 posted 02-21-2001 09:42 PM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

X Angel,
I agree I think it's about facing your problems but if you have no-one to help you do that ...what then?
Just asking.
Keth


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


X Angel
Senior Member
since 11-07-1999
Posts 1592
Oregon


6 posted 02-21-2001 09:50 PM       View Profile for X Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for X Angel

Yanno Keth, I think here on Passions you could find someone easily with whom you could connect and find a great source of support. Sometimes just ranting til you turn purple helps. I dunno tho, I too find myself with a lack of real-time friends who I could run to in an emergency.

tough one!
ya can always email me hun, I can't guarantee a proper answer to a problem, but I sure as heck can listen and attempt to make you smile even.
*HUGS*
~H


A woman has got to love a bad man once or twice in her life to be thankful for a good one.
Mae West (1892-1980)

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


7 posted 02-21-2001 09:53 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

What a loaded question....(smile please)

I think we touched on this topic before in philosophy...but for what it's worth? I do agree that drugs are over prescribed...but? again, I've said this before, after talking to doctors "off the record"---there are people who simply want the instant cure of a pill---and insist upon a prescription as if that mean they are getting their money's worth. And no, I'm not a counselor? But I would love to see, health care, especially for the depressed, become more wholistic. I believe hormone levels should be checked---and lifestyle habits examined...as well as help to cope with negative thought cycle of which most people are quite unaware.

In short, it does take a great deal of honest self inventory, and sadly, at a time, when most people don't have the energy to do such an overwhelming task. Most people, would rather take a pill. And sigh...of all sighs...I personally believe that happiness is not some miracle peak experience that changes your life...but a daily choice to stay on track. It's work. And I fail quite often too. But...tomorrow's another day. The world keeps turning...and we all keep changing...billions of cells die and are born anew daily. Change is inevitable. So....
just hang in there.
inot2B
Member Elite
since 09-18-2000
Posts 2272
Alabama


8 posted 02-21-2001 11:25 PM       View Profile for inot2B   Email inot2B   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for inot2B

I'm sorry that you can't find the professional help you seek.

[This message has been edited by inot2B (edited 02-22-2001).]
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


9 posted 02-21-2001 11:27 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Kethry, I've been told I should get checked for depression. I haven't done that though, because of the medication being so widely prescribed.

IN all seriousness, a true depression is a chemical imbalance, and when you're depressed without being chemically imbalanced, I feel that's a danger to the brain. As it's altering ceratonin (sp) when it shouldn't be messed with.


If you have no one to turn to, I would suggest looking into a counselor, someone who can be impartial. I think it would do a world of good to get right down to the heart of the depression.

If you can't do that, things have been suggested. Write out those sad feelings, and let them GO. Some have written them, then shredded them up saying they will not bring them down, it's time to let go, and then thrown them out. Some have written, then burned them. In some way to get out what it is your feeling, and then to say good riddance to it.

Try getting in touch with your spirit once a day. Take time for Kethry, and if you believe, time for God.

Try to focus on what would make you happy??
I certainly don't know the issues of what you brings you down, but these are only suggestions.

I for one decided to make some positive changes in my life. I want to be that happy person I used to be when I was younger.
I wanted to learn web design, and just got up and entered school to do it. Sometimes it takes a real kick in the butt to get us going, but when we do, WE CAN DO IT!
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


10 posted 02-21-2001 11:34 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

When you get pneumonia, you take antibiotics. Plain and simple. Writing, talking, and just plain feeling loved by others will make you feel better, but feeling better shouldn't be your only - or even your primary - goal. And that's especially true when feeling better convinces you the antibiotics are unnecessary.

Depression, sadly, isn't pneumonia. We don't have a one-medication-works-for-all solution and probably never will. That's because clinical depression is more like cancer, where there are many, many causes and no two cases are ever identical. Some people are plagued by mild depression and learn to cope with it, perhaps like Ali. Some face crippling depression, and asking them to adjust their attitude is like asking a quadriplegic victim to run the Boston marathon. Probably, a better analogy is headaches. Because we all get them from time to time. Some can be ignored, most respond to the occasional aspirin. But when headaches become frequent and debilitating, it's time to get help. Medical help.

Clinical depression is not caused by events, any more than migraines are caused by a little tension. You see, that's the real problem with depression in this society. We all feel depressed at some point, so we project our own experience onto everyone else. But when you see someone bent over the toilet bowl, puking their guts out because of a migraine in its twelfth hour of excruciation, it's a horrible mistake to liken it to a simple headache. Massaging their neck isn't going to help. We all experience tension. We all get headaches. But only a few have to deal with the very different thing called migraines.

Likewise, we all face tragedy. Jobs are lost. Loved ones leave or die. Our health suffers, our family doesn't understand us, our bills become insurmountable. We face tragedies, we get depressed - and then we get better. Most people even get stronger. That cycle is part of life and there isn't anyone in this world who can escape it. People suffering from clinical depression face tragedies, too. And there's no doubt their sense of loss feeds their depression and makes it worse. But, if everything in their life was seemingly perfect, if there were no immediate tragedies, they would still be depressed. Migraine headaches aren't caused by tension, and clinical depression isn't the result of external events. That doesn't lessen the importance or impact of tragedy - their loss may still be great and still require attention. But it does mean the depressions shouldn't be blamed on events. I can't over-emphasize how important that concept is. If you believe that fixing the events will cure clinical depression, you will spend all your energy and resources pursuing the wrong goal. You cannot possibly succeed - because tragedy and loss are part of life.

Kethry, if the doctor gave you pills for a migraine and they didn't alleviate your pain, what do you think you should do? There are a lot of reasons why depression is incredibly difficult to effectively treat. Anyone who has had to take antibiotics knows it's not an instant cure, it usually takes at least three days before ANY relief is seen, and medication for depression can take even longer. On the other hand, unlike pneumonia, they can't run a blood test to see if you're getting better. It's up to YOU to tell your doctor - as forcibly as necessary - that his prescription isn't doing the trick.

We've come a long way in the last twenty years, but not nearly far enough. Change meds, combine meds, increase dosage, lower dosage - trial and error, while the suffering continues and the side-effects become new issues. It sucks. It really, really, really sucks. And it is still far, far better than the alternative.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


11 posted 02-22-2001 12:21 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

After reading Ron's reply, I realize that I may have spoken rashly. I can only relate to this topic from personal experience---and what did not work for me? May very well work for another. So the thing to do is to seek help. But Ron? Unlike migraines, the side effects of the medications prescribed quite often only distance you from the feeling. And unlike a migraine, I found that the meds distanced me from ALL feeling. But? It was later discovered through much counseling with the help of a very good doctor, that in my personal case, my recurring depression is a result of trauma caused by repeated sexual abuse in my life. Not a cry for sympathy there...it's just something that happened and yes, it sucks, but I am also learning to cope, unashamed. And this doctor also agreed that the meds I'd previously been described were not only useless, but probably a detriment. (As was/is all of the self medicating that I had been doing.) So I live and learn. And? I like to think that I'm a better being than I've ever been.

But Keth? Ron is absolutely right, that the first step is seek help to find what is the best course of action for YOU to take. And if at first you don't find the help you feel comfortable with? You keep looking.

HUGS and prayers. There's always hope.

Swamp了aeryie
Member
since 12-04-2000
Posts 395
fairyland....of course;)


12 posted 02-22-2001 01:28 AM       View Profile for Swamp了aeryie   Email Swamp了aeryie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Swamp了aeryie

I agree with you Kethry,this stuff on the market IS NOT miracle pills!!Depression is such a nasty thing.It turns everything upside down. It puts barriers between you and the rest of the world,myself i have trouble even comunicating with people who aren't or have never been depressive,there is a total gap there that's incredibly un-crossable,like 2 seperate worlds.I recently visited a pyschiatrist,went through the whole medical test thing to make sure i didn't have hypo thyroid/anemia anything to contribute to depression....surprisingly unfortunately they found zilch,so here i am,i've decided i will absolutely not be put on medication. I'm not willing to deal with the side effects,and also have a fear of loosing what makes me me...my mum thinks i'm mad when i tell her that to seperate me entirely from the darkness is to seperate me from my art. But that's pretty much how i feel.
Although i agree attitude and what you surround yourself with deffinately makes a difference,it's not the answer for someone with a chemical imbalance. For instance,my life is perfect,you know? it really is!! i have everything i need/want.I'm not stressed out,i have purpose,i have people who love me and whom i love but none of that changes the fog that descends every few months. I think i'm learning to deal with it though,it's mild for me (famous last words)but then i'm having a normal time right now,hoping it will last if i try hard enough and behave by eating right,sleeping right,getting excercise,and all those other things that are so hard to get motivated for!!
The only suggestion i can offer is that you do all the research you can on the subject of depression,read and read and read about it.Get into the science of it,understand it in all it's aspects. Read about the effects,read about what diet and excersise can do,absorb all the info you can!! And of course find someone else who you can really talk to about it!!If you need someone to e-mail please feel free,i am open for discussion and wil listen to all you have to say!! my email is sie_tauschen_sich@yahoo.com
Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


13 posted 02-22-2001 01:43 AM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

X angel,
I too have found heaps of support on the net but being across the other side of the world means I have to deliberately stay up till some ungodly hour to talk. Not a good thing when I'm trying to build some routine structure in my life or I have to find someone who's in the same time zone as me or I have to ignore it and hope it goes away.
All work sometimes, but for a plan they're not very organised solutions.

Ron I agree up to a point, I have seen a counsellor along with taking the pills and they both help. What really irritates me is that my GP suggests I will be on these for at least two years and I'm onto my fifth different one already. None of them have agreed with me. One made me so nauseous I couldn't eat sleep or function. Whenever I talk to my doctor he says persevere for a bit longer, I go away and you know what, I think it would be a good idea to throw all the pills in the bin, crash and burn and then it will be over and I will be able to get my life back on track. But I meekly go on taking the pills and then I hate myself for it. And I hate it that no matter what I say he goes on prescribing and I go on taking them. You will probably say go see a different doctor, I have also tried that, different face same result.

Serenity,
I am like you in that I too was a victim of ongoing sexual abuse as a child and I think it impacts on ability to be resilient. That combined with a number of other factors seem to have created something that has snowballed out of control. And yes I've dealt with that so I'm not looking for pity either. I just want some strategies to get back on track!

More suggestions anyone?


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


14 posted 02-22-2001 02:02 AM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

Swamp Faeryae,
I'm trying all those things, I really am, but the emotional energy it takes to keep on track is more tiring than the depression, and then dealing with the side effects is a whole nother ball game. I don't know it seems things were simpler when there was less reliance on drugs as a cure all.


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


15 posted 02-22-2001 04:16 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

I may be stating the obvious, here, but did any of the medical professionals that you've seen for this problem actually check you for the chemical imbalances that are known to be linked to clinical depression?  Or did they just do a few free-association sessions at $200 an hour and then start throwing meds at you..?

Forgive me if I seem cynical, but I went through a "depression" diagnosis as a teen that very nearly had me hooked on prescription drugs for the rest of my life.  As far as I am concerend, the most important thing in treating any sort of depression is trying to determine the cause rather than simly treating the symptoms.  

In some cases, the culprit is almost purely physical -- your emotions and state of mind are largely controlled, or at least initiated, by your brain and/or body chemistry.  If any of these chemicals are imbalanced in even the slightest bit, strange and potentially devastating things can happen to your psyche.

I have seen many instances of this, but one example comes to mind:  when I worked on the surgery floor in a local hospital, there was a very pleasant gentleman whom I shall call "Bob" for the sake of his privacy.  Bob came in for some relatively minor surgery; he was having some polyps removed from his colon that were causing him some problems.

The surgery went perfectly, and Bob was returned to my floor to recover.  When he awoke, however, Bob became suddenly violent and paranoid, accusing several members of the nursing staff and some people who had come to visit the man in the next bed of conspiring against him, even going so far as trying to kill him.  He refused to eat or drink anything, promptly taking anything that was brought to him for that purpose into the bathroom and dumping it in the toilet, then rinsing the container and begging me to "take it to the lab for analysis," presumably to find the 'poison' that he suspected it contained.  Finally, he ripped all of the IV's from his arms and the bandages from his stitches, picked up his overnight bag and stormed out into the hall in nothing but his hospital gown (which, as most of you know, are rather 'breezy' in the back), declaring that he intended to leave this instant before we were successful in engineering his premature demise.

It turned out that Bob's electrolytes were severely unbalanced; his sodium levels were elevated about 10% in response to one of the medications they administered durning surgery, and that one little deviation caused him to act as though he had essentially lost his mind.  When the problem was corrected, Bob quickly necame his old self again and even admitted remembering in perfect detail everything that had happened, claiming that his paranoid delusions had seemed to make perfect sense to him at the time despite the fact that he realized now that he had acted utterly ridiculous.

So what does this have to do with you?  Basically, it comes down to this:  if your chemistry is off, you are probably going to need drugs to fix it, but first, it must be determined that the problem is chemical in nature.  This requires blood tests, urine tests, and the like -- don't let anyone tell you that they can definitively diagnose a chemical imbalance WITHOUT testing your chemistry (duh!)

If, however, your problem is not (testably) biological in nature, chances are that any drugs you take are only going to treat your symptoms, not the cause.  At this point, YOU have to be the one to decide if your symptoms are such that you prefer whatever handicap your meds may cause to the handicap caused by your symptoms.

The best thing that you can do for yourself in this case, Kethry, is to be an educated patient.  Don't just follow meekly along and assume the doc must be right just because he says so ... this is YOUR body and mind we're talking about here.  Ask questions and demand answers.  If one doc doesn't answer your questions to your satisfaction, get another.

Most importantly, just get help.  Unfortunately, real depression doesn't just "go away" if you ignore it, hun.  You don't have to do this alone.

Good luck and good health,


Linda
Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


16 posted 02-22-2001 07:42 AM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

Thanks Linda,
I know depression doesn't just go away. And no at no point in time have I been checked for chemical imbalance even though I have asked several times. It seems in this country with all the issues of our public health system being de-constructed it becomes a money issue. I have had my blood pressure checked if that counts for anything. For me that creates another problem as no matter what anti-depressant I'm on it always impacts on the medication I am and have been taking for elevated blood pressure for a number of years. Last week they discovered I had low blood pressure after I had fainted a number of times. Did they change the anti depressants? No I'm afraid not instead they changed the blood pressure tablets. So now I have whole new set of side effects to deal with. I do try hard to put across my point of view but I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle ALONE... and that's the hard part.
So many of my friends think it's okay to be doped to the eyeballs (and that's how I feel most of the time) but if I shed one single tear in their presence they run for the hills. It has been the same at passions there are a few people I would call friends and could call, but for the large part people don't want to know. I understand that because they have their own lives to lead, but some of them have said the answer lies in finding the right combination of pills. I don't believe this is true, even after this discussion, so I guess I'll have to work out my own solution., which is probably best anyway.

Serenity,
Sorry I had a thought before but I lost it somewhere. With regard to the pills divorcing you from all feeling "Bingo!" I can relate to that, and sometimes the pain is better than the nothing.


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


17 posted 02-22-2001 09:01 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I've been on both sides of the fence. Learned enough to know that adding meds to what other meds are causing doesn't work. We can easily become overmedicated on the simplest things [look at nicotine and aspirin] and we can even become allergic to foods which in turn can cause havoc with our bodies...

the one side of the fence was myself. Believe it or not, birth control pills were throwing my mental parts off track...so what does the doctor [30 years ago] do? Treats it with Xanax...we didn't think to look at what was causing the problems, just "treat the symptoms..."

one day I looked at me and it came to mind that I didn't start acting this way until I started ingesting first "this pill" and that I was getting worse with the "second pill" so I threw it all away....and found myself.

the other side of the fence was my daughter's manic-depressive tendancies. Without going into a whole lot of info, suffice to say she NEEDS medication BUT the way the meds make her feel, she refuses to take them [which is typical of victims with bipolar problems]...

I am not offering any advice, but only letting you know, Kethry, that you are definitely NOT alone in this. And as your responses can tell you...it is good to share the knowledge that we are NOT alone...

and if I were to offer any advice, it would go back to what has been stated before...it is our own knowing that what we are being given is not helping...we need to really listen to our bodies and our minds...and go back to the doctors and say "I've tried it, this is exactly what is happening..." and if the doctor doesn't give you an answer that sounds plausible...then get a second opinion, and a third and a fourth...but document yourself...and make it a practice to ask for your records...

it is very difficult for doctors to always see us as individuals...and that we are NOT hypochondriacs....we just want to be well....

and Keth? Hugs.....
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


18 posted 02-22-2001 10:07 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Kethry, Linda said exactly what I was thinking, but didn't put out correctly.

I know my 'sadness' was caused by happenings in my life that I wasn't happy with. And over they years, I continued to spiral into it all.

But seriously, your brain chemicals are a delicate balance, and don't let anyone put you on meds without YOU making sure that you have to have them first.

Please, if you have to go to 10 doctors to be checked the correct way, then keep searching. I've been reading up on ADD because I think one of daughters may have it. Again, I'm reluctant to get her checked, because there's such a big wave of those who just dish out medication, and seems everyone is diagnosed with it. There is NO concrete way to actually check for ADD, it's simply a battery of psych tests.

But my point is, in this material I was reading it said if you go to a doctor who won't listen and doles out the meds without a thorough exam, then you best walk out the door and go to another. Those who will NOT check to be absolutely sure that the medication they give is 100% needed, is not doing you any good.

Just because they hold a degree don't mean they always know what's best. You know YOU better than anyone else. If you feel these medications aren't working, then go somewhere else. I know you said you've done that, but persevere, keep looking, find a doctor who will listen to you, and do the test necessary to ensure your health.
Swamp了aeryie
Member
since 12-04-2000
Posts 395
fairyland....of course;)


19 posted 02-22-2001 01:54 PM       View Profile for Swamp了aeryie   Email Swamp了aeryie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Swamp了aeryie

Have you ever tried something mild like st.john's wart?? My mum has a mild chemical imbalance and st.jw kicks it for her,but every one is very differnt,she loves it,but i've heard other people say it did nothing for them. It has a few and in my opinion dealable side effects. You can't get a whole lot of sun,makes you burn easy,can't drink much alchohol(my mum can drink i glass of wine,or one beer and she's alright,but more than that gives her a migrain)and you have to make sure it won't mess with other medications.Might give it a thought if you haven't already?

much madness is divinest sense~Emily Dickinson
Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


20 posted 02-22-2001 03:06 PM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

OK Thanks everybody, I guess there are no easy solutions, which is what I suspected in the first place.

The next question for me is if the pills help and I need to take them. What can I do to keep sane until the pills do the job they're supposed to?

I think I'll start a new thread with things I've tried and if you would be so kind as to add to the list.


Those of us who refuse to risk and grow get swallowed up by life. Patty Hansen.


White Wolf
Member
since 09-18-99
Posts 384
Somewhere in the vast wastelan


21 posted 02-23-2001 05:04 AM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

I am very sensitive to this topic. It hits really close to home. I have been depressed for much of my life, I can't even remember when it first started. I have seen four, or so, different councelors, you know the one's with the degrees on the wall, and none of them have directly helped me. Three of the four have told me, and I quote, "I am surprised you are still living." The last one put me on some meds for a chemical imbalance. When I went back two months later I told her that I couldn't take the meds anymore. The reason is that while they helped I came to realize that pain is always there for a reason, whether it is depression or a pain in your arm from a scratch. Pain lets us know something is wrong. But what would happen if we killed that pain. How would we know when something is wrong or needed to be fixed? If your car's temperature gage was reading very hot, would you cover it up? Of course not you would either find and fix the problem yourself or go have a professional fix it. From the professionals I have been to, they couldn't find the problem but could "cover up" what I was feeling with meds. I don't need a "cover up". I need a fix up. The professionals I went to was like me taking my car that is overheating to a professional who only works on brakes and clutches. It isn't going to work. Personally I don't believe in taking meds unless you are sure that that the problem will be fixed or you absolutely have to. And to Ron's example of headaches and migraines, atleast they go away after a time. For me, depression doesn't. If you are depressed and start are taking meds, if you don't know where the problem is, how will you know when the problem is solved. As to the chemical imbalance. In most cases, it is what the body does to let you know that there is a problem. Don't get me wrong I believe that there are things that can physically happen in the body, like the thing that regulates a certain chemical in the brain and stuff like that, that cause the same symtoms. But I think that the medical community has used chemical imbalances as an exscuse for prescriptions. Although I do realize that we as people are always looking for the "easy way out" and thus want these meds that seem to cure the depression at almost any cost, side effects or actual cost in currency. That is my nickle's worth for now.

The only thing that I can offer is that I can share what has and hasn't worked for me. I believe that what I am doing will work on most people if not all people afflicted with depression. If you would like I can talk to you about it, if you are interested, via email but let me know. I will check back here for a week or you can just email me.


The White Wolf
warmhrt
Senior Member
since 12-18-1999
Posts 1566


22 posted 02-23-2001 08:20 PM       View Profile for warmhrt   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for warmhrt

I will be brief, as I do often have a tendency to be very long-winded on this subject.

I have a depressive illness, and I have worked in the field of mental health as a student, and am now three weeks away from being a "professional". I've been on both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Since depression is a physiological condition, a chemical imbalance, it needs to be treated with medication. The determination of which medication it should be is best done by a mental health professional (a psychiatrist), and treatment should include counseling or some other sort of "talk" therapy. Attending a support group
is an important step to acceptance of the condition, feeling less alone, and a commitment to learn all one can to overcome the effects of the illness.

So it's three steps...a good doctor (and meds), a good therapist, and a support group.

Hope this helps someone...
Kris

"It is wisdom to know others;
It is enlightenment to know one's self" - Lao Tzu
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