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Passions in Poetry

Furious

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Elizabeth
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful


50 posted 03-01-2001 09:18 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

Thanks for letting me know about it, Trisha. I read it and agree with you that it was very well written. If anyone else cares to look at it they can check here. http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum35/HTML/000879.html

I don't think that Hardrock's poem, as you put it, "glorifies death." The situations described in his poem and Jeremy's poem are not the same. I've never been to war, but I can say with some certainty that in a case like that, you need to look out for yourself. Also, Hardrock's poem clearly describes the regret he feels at needing to kill the other man. The message in it is not, "Killing is a great way to solve your problems!", but rather about the horrors of war. I also want to point out that the first person who replied to Hardrock's poem was Poet deVine, an Administrator, who has been here since the beginning of Passions, and has always made good judgment calls. Oftentimes when a Moderator is considering deleting a poem, we ask the other Moderators and Administrators to review it and give their opinions. If something was inappropriate, she would most likely agree.

I know that anyone who is suicidal is in despair and needs to be heard, needs people to care, needs an outlet. However, therapy is often the best thing for them. We at Passions care about each and every member here, but we are not counselors or psychiatrists. And our guidelines need to be followed-by everyone, whether they are depressed or not.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


51 posted 03-01-2001 10:22 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I am very confused here. What does another poem have to do with the one Firejerm posted?

Firejerm has decided not to discuss his poem in private with me -- this shows me that he is not interested in the poem.

He then contradicts his own argument. It may mean a lot to him but it means little to me. He argued interpretation and now he argues truth? The arrogance of what he said boggles the mind and shows no understanding of language, of his own poem, nor of Passions.

What are people trying to say?

Please be clearer if you wish to make a statement from now on.

Brad
Elizabeth
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful


52 posted 03-01-2001 10:30 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

Brad, on page 2 of this thread, Trisha started talking about a poem in Dark Passions that was about the Vietnam War, and said, "Isn't this glorifying death? Why is this poem allowed to stay and Firejerm's wasn't?" (that's not verbatim) I asked her for the link and she told me where to look, I read it and gave my opinion about it.
DancinQueen
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 07-29-2000
Posts 1663
Kokomo,IN,USA


53 posted 03-01-2001 10:33 PM       View Profile for DancinQueen   Email DancinQueen   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for DancinQueen

i think its as simple as this: if you dont like the rules you can leave~ and dont let the door hit you on your way out

u can complain all you want, but 99% of the members here obviously dont have a problem with following hte rules and guidlines. if you have a problem im sure there's a different poetry forum site just waiting for you in internet land. let your journey begin

*dq


¤Sometimes the hardest thing to get over, is something you never really had¤
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


54 posted 03-01-2001 10:41 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I don't feel I have to defend my opinion of either poem. Hardrocks was difficult to read as it was difficult to live through. But it never glorified the taking of a life...

firejerm
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 216
Springfield, OH, good ol USA


55 posted 03-02-2001 12:02 AM       View Profile for firejerm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for firejerm

I think you are all hypocrites and are totally full of (edited by Alicat), Brad, you have never once approached me directly, and I say directly..I have email, icq, etc, about discussing my poem...I am more than willing. Somewhere along the line, many have "glorified death"...don't see why you are all so threatened by me, but it's interesting that those who have not read, keep replying about "guidlines". When you know not the subject matter. Maybe I should write about many of the cardiac arrests, trauma arrests, and violent deaths I've been on as a paramedic, or the fatalities I've been on as a firefighter, it would be the same as someone speaking of a war experience. You all make me tired (edited by Alicat). And yes, slice it anyway you want to, but I have been singled out.

"Those little slices of death, how I loathe them."
-Edgar Allen Poe

Note: Firejerm, profanity, even when caught by the filter, is not permissable nor allowed as per forum and site guidelines. Thank you. --Alicat, Alley Moderator


[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 03-02-2001).]
Irie
Senior Member
since 12-01-1999
Posts 1526
Washington State


56 posted 03-02-2001 01:09 AM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

Firejerm....
I noticed you said you could be contacted by E mail, Icq etc.
But it doesn't seem that you have your email published in your profile.
So, I'll ask you here....
Could you please email me the poem in question.
I have not read it and would like a chance to do so.

Thanks


~Sheri

"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"


serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


57 posted 03-02-2001 01:30 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze


"If hell does exist, it is here and it is now. I hope certainly the character in this poem isn't one who constantly complains and cries about the situation she's in and yet stays, aggravating her freinds...stupidity gives way to stubborness after a while. Sad, but good write!"
Jeremy


My dear friend, those were YOUR words, in response to one of my poems. Now, yes, I thought you missed the mark, and yes, I did think that you did not think. But I granted YOU, the entitlement of your opinion, even after it was obviously stated that this was a poem by me from a very personal perspective. To insinuate that all who agree with the administrators of PIP are hypocrites, and "butt" kissers--is to belittle our own opinions...There is nothing to agree upon. THE guidelines were decided by THE OWNER OF THIS FORUM, who welcomed you here, with the understanding that you would follow those guidelines. Now, I suggest, that if you disagree with how those guidelines are carried out, then become more active...so far? I have only seen you as reactive...and? this is not a personal attack---I DO NOT KNOW YOU. Nor do I consider this name calling. I simply feel this has gone on far enough. It was one poem.
I trust you have more. Write them and post in peace, my friend. I too, write "extreme" poetry, and post in forums which welcome more extreme form. But in the meantime? (and I'm working hard on behaving... ) I understand, that when you enter someone's home? If the custom is to remove your shoes at the door? Then leave yer boots there.

After all, Ron pays the rent.

fractal007
Member Elite
since 06-01-2000
Posts 2032


58 posted 03-02-2001 03:13 AM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

All:

I've just been reading some of the responses in this thread. I agree somewhat that poetry that discusses suicide might be okay to include. However, this might be stretching things a little. For example, who's to say what is and is not an appropriate way to discuss suicide in a poem.

In my humble opinion, a poem which discussed one's grief over a friend who'd been lost to suicide would not be inappropriate. I mean, I don't interpret the guidelines that way. However, if this poem said something to the effect of "good riddence" or "you did the right thing" then it would definitely be inappropriate.

I don't mean to sound like an idealist or foolish romantic, but I have come to regard these forums as the Camelot of the internet. Everyone does things according to a set of moral guidelines[or at least I think they're moral]. I can have a discussion about some philosophical topic[take the discussion I had with a bunch of people about current mentalities regarding suicide as an example] and people will respect each other. If they don't agree then they'll say why in a civilized manner.

I can go to someplace else, like a Yahoo club for example, and have the same discussion. However, chances are that it will be a discussion[assuming it's on one of the more open Yahoo clubs with tonnes of members] that a two year old could probably have a good chance of raising some interesting points. Why? Because half the people there will be sitting around crabbing about each other's characters and flaming each other.

"If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh"

-- Magus
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


59 posted 03-02-2001 03:48 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I'm sorry that I misunderstood what I wrote. I asked you to e-mail me; I didn't realize that meant I should e-mail you. I have now done so.

Brad
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


60 posted 03-02-2001 05:56 AM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

Elizabeth did you some of the other poems listed?

Forgive me if i kill you. 6/21/00
The glock 6-23-00
The Gift of Death 6-14-00
pages 123-129

Bloodstain Talk of Death pg 121.

This is were i stopped afer i found the poem War Is Waiting.


Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


61 posted 03-02-2001 06:07 AM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

(shakes head) Some just don't get it Jeremy.

Your poem was a voice ..of anothers Cry for HELP that went un-answered *a gift that you have* from seeing so much in such a short time. Be grateful for this gift.

"Death i fear not!! What i fear is the blindness of others in life!"

Folks as the saying goes.(edited by Nan)



[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 03-02-2001).]
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


62 posted 03-02-2001 06:22 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Trisha? we get it...but it's not the point.
You are busy defending j's free speech and completely ignoring Ron's right to decide the direction of HIS forum. NOW? somebody please...it's late or early depending on your sleep viewpoint...but explain to me...please? where is the deciding slant? where then, is a line drawn? Who's final responsibility is it? If not Ron's? Why are we still arguing this bogus crap? And jeremy? You know, this is not a personal affront to you...I've already talked to you about this, and will again,if ya like. I think you are a lovely thoughtful person. But? I have a home. And? I fight like a tiger to keep people from messing it up, BECAUSE I am ALMOST as crazy as Ron about inviting people over to stay.

NOW SOMEBODY SUM THIS ALL UP? Or? I will be forced to go to Ron's (okay, not technically Ron's but couldn't resist the grin) reading list for gawd help me...entertainment...yukyukyuk...but hey? I do recommend anything by William Styron.

Oh yes...and Trish? I loved your final comment, and understand, please, that this is directed at me as well--- "a" holes are indeed like opinions, in that everyone has one---but? unlike opinions? "a" holes are USEFUL.




[This message has been edited by serenity (edited 03-02-2001).]
Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 04-30-2000
Posts 16920
Ontario, Canada


63 posted 03-02-2001 07:23 AM       View Profile for Kit McCallum   Email Kit McCallum   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kit McCallum

You know … I've been following this thread all along, and am just shaking my head here at some of the comments I've read. I don't often respond directly in these types of threads, and am not going to address the specific poem in question, but rather, suicidal content posts "in general".

I am an adult moderator in the Teen Forum, and though we have the largest share of these types of issues in this entire set of Forums, I can honestly say I have never had a similar issue continued, argued or the need to be defended to this length.

These decisions are NEVER taken lightly. Most Teen members are incredibly understanding and even gracious in their response to this type of situation. They are made aware that no "one" individual made the decision, that a consensus was reached by a number of level-headed individuals, each with their own opinions and thoughts on life.

I have personally "agonized" (yes, I said agonized) over the health and welfare of both authors and readers regarding suicidal content posts. I have contacted members to see if they are OK, corresponded with those genuinely depressed, and been so incredibly relieved when met with a kind and understanding response saying that they were OK and weren't aware that 9 years olds visit this site and may actually be influenced by what they read.

To reference some posts that "may have slipped through the cracks" is irrelevant in my opinion. Some have slipped through the cracks in Teen as well … we are not perfect and may not catch every single instance. We are volunteers, and do the best job we possibly can to keep Passions a friendly, safe family-oriented site for our readers.

Members using good judgment in posting, carry as much responsibility and weight as the Moderating Team. In my opinion, we are here for the same reasons everyone is … to read and enjoy poetry, not to argue and defend each little word, interpretation or judgment call that was responsibly made according to our understanding of the Guidelines.

I for one, am grateful, and respect the guidelines and the varied group of individuals that assist in interpreting these guidelines that make this site a place we can all share in, and be proud enough to share with even the younger members of our families and friends. There are many other sites that do "not" care about that aspect, and that's precisely why I am "here" and not "there".

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


64 posted 03-02-2001 07:33 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Serenity - I think you've summed up the matter quite nicely...

I do have this to say - Anyone who becomes a moderator on this site MUST be willing to maintain Ron's standards of posting. Ron's personality clearly shines on these pages... He's brilliant, fair, kind, and humble - Quite a combination, isn't it? I don't think the words "power" and "control" are in his dictionary. The wonderful people who help by moderating here are similar - I've never felt a hint of anyone on a "power trip" here - and I haven't missed a single day since the inception of this wonderful place...

As for "singling out"... Jeremy YOU have personally singled yourself out. No one did that for you. It's a combination of your own actions and your own attitude that have done it. It's also your own attitude that will determine your future here. You can make yourself comfortable and adhere to the guidelines, or you can continue to defy them. It's your choice.

It'll be a whole lot less work for all of us if you play nicely... But we're quite prepared for you, whichever path you choose. I personally hope you opt to play nicely. We want everyone to be productive and contented members here at Passions.

Nancy
Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


65 posted 03-02-2001 10:06 AM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

I am totally sick of seeing this topic even come up to the top again.

1. I think we should close this topic:

This is no longer a discussion, but more of an arguement.  Because all the words that's being dished by the author are nothing but blame with the inclusion of profanity, I submit that this thread be closed for that reason alone.  I feel that this thread being allowed to go on only feeds to this person's inconsiderate attitude.  


2. I agree with Kit

I agree with Kit when she said that bringing up topics that have slipped or been allowed before(as assumed) shouldn't be brought up for it definitely is not part of the issue here.  And if you want a bettre understanding of this arguement, I recommend that you go read her reply.


3. The members in teen act better than this

This thread has actually made me proud of the members of the teen forum.  When a topic like this arises, it seems like they have acted in a more mature manner, they have shown more consideration and understanding, and they have most definitely been more behaved than this.  Now, it makes me proud to be moderating the teen forum.  They may be young in age, but when it comes to discussions of serious matters, they act more mature.

-------------------------------------------------

And yes firejerm, you have been singled out.  But the thing is, you did it yourself.  I just do not understand why some people cannot understand that we have, to say the least, 9 yr olds that come and read our poems in pip.  They're understanding of poems could be totally different than that of any adult.

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee."  W.S.




[This message has been edited by acire (edited 03-02-2001).]
firejerm
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 216
Springfield, OH, good ol USA


66 posted 03-02-2001 10:34 AM       View Profile for firejerm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for firejerm

*yawn* You know I let you all just keep talking for weeks about this. I was willing to let this rest until last night, but you all still keep pressing it. It's done, over with, you all got your way so be happy. ...and if 9 year olds are coming in to read this forum, they should be blocked. Not just because of what I write, but what others submit as well. That indeed should be against the "guidelines". You also don't have to worry about seeing me in Passions any more, so once again, BE HAPPY. My writing will be appreciated elsewhere, where it won't be constantly scruitenized. So keep on talking if you like, but it phases me not.

Perhaps you are saying good riddens to bad rubbish, so be it...but I'll continue to "Talk Hard"

Jeremy

"Those little slices of death, how I loathe them."
-Edgar Allen Poe
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


67 posted 03-02-2001 10:38 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

We seem to have come full circle. Firejerm's topic started with insults and ended in insults. There is little left to discuss. He was gone for 2 weeks, if you check the posting dates, and I didn't miss him a bit. I had foolishly assumed that he had let the matter drop and had resumed posting poetry. Seems I was mistaken.

And Trisha, if you wish to discuss loopholes, I can look back to your first post, which was actually Firejerm's. Posting someone else's work is against guidelines, even with their permission. This was done to circumvent the posting limit, as Firejerm's reply to such said. FYI, this post can be found here. But I digress.

This thread is now closed, to be opened under review by either myself, or one of the site administrators.

For those who missed this forum's guidelines, I will repost them here:
quote:

Forum Guidelines

Welcome to the Alley. This is the place for complaints, gripes, griches, problems, questions, and the discussion or such. Feel free to express yourself in whatever fashion you please, but keep in mind that personal attacks, profanities, and other obscene language will not be tolerated. Since this forum is not restricted, minors will have access to the topics. So let's try to keep it clean.

Now, if you do happen to have a personal beef with another member, try emailing them first. If no resolution is possible, and if you really feel like airing your dirty laundry, then by all means, bring it to the Alley. Just don't get bent if you don't get the desired result.

If you break the rules, I will email or icq you, asking that you edit your posting. If this does not happen, then I will either edit, lock, and/or delete the offending post or reply. I'd rather not, since I believe in freedom of speech. However, I also believe in the responsibility that comes with that right.

Topics of a philosophical nature will be moved to the appopriate forum.

In closing, we are all adults, or at least capable of holding mature conversations. So shout and scream if you must, but keep in mind that we are all guests in Ron's home.



Normally, I do try to communicate with the writer if an offense is found. However, this courtesy was waived earlier in this thread, if you care to go back and really read.

Should you have any questions, feel free to email me at alicat23@visto.com or ICQ at 29300778. Keep in mind that any and all correspondence may or may not be shared with other moderators, so keep it clean.


Alicat
Alley Moderator

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 03-02-2001).]
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