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Passions in Poetry

Furious

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serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


25 posted 02-05-2001 02:27 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

firejerm....see the "brush with fame" thread. I GOOF alot. Sometimes things are hard to call. That's what the moderators are there for. So...we move on,yes? Yes.
Dark_kisses_Within
Senior Member
since 03-21-2000
Posts 678
Kansas


26 posted 02-05-2001 02:37 PM       View Profile for Dark_kisses_Within   Email Dark_kisses_Within   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Dark_kisses_Within's Home Page   View IP for Dark_kisses_Within

"You have no right to barge in here with no more information than you have and call BS on anyone here. You are ill-informed and therefore unable to present a point of view other than emotional. You are certainly more than welcome to do that - far be it from me to stop anyone from expressing themselves. But if you're going to start making accusations, be prepared to deal with the repercussions"
WHOA!!! You sure got defensive here, now didnt you? I wasnt trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything.  I was simply stating my point of view (LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HERE) but since I disagreed with you on the jokes made, then I see I am different. I didnt argue the fact of the rules made NOR did I complain about that.  Since I work in a professional job, yes I know the limits and standards on keeping the rules.  Once AGAIN, I didnt argue this fact! Rules of life... always be  fair, consistant and non-judgemental.  As I see you have taken what I wrote wayyyyyyyyy past the meaning. So be it for ME to barge in and enter this forum!
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


27 posted 02-05-2001 03:04 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Jeremy, you have a very valid complaint, which I feel has been adequately responde to, so I will not contribute my thoughts on the matter.

I am here only to ask for discretion on behalf of those who have opted to state their opinions. As per the Alley guidelines, personal attacks will not be tolerated. Any further abuses will result in the offending post being deleted or edited.

Thank you for your support.

Alicat, Alley Moderator

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 02-05-2001).]
Elizabeth Cor
Senior Member
since 10-13-2000
Posts 906
Oregon (yeah!)


28 posted 02-05-2001 04:11 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth Cor   Email Elizabeth Cor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Elizabeth Cor

If a person were to look back over the posts in The Alley -- from the very first to the very last -– he or she would most likely be amazed by how often this type of outburst happens. Is there like a three-week waiting period between each eruption, or something? "Oh, hey, things are looking slow in The Alley...release the instigators!"(not you, rock ).

Ron, Moderators, I commend you for your patience, which is tested over and over again.

~ Beth

P.S. Colin! That’s a jar of peanut butter, you goose! Crunchy, of course  

... if only stupidity were painful.
mark woolard
Member
since 01-02-2001
Posts 148


29 posted 02-05-2001 06:16 PM       View Profile for mark woolard   Email mark woolard   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mark woolard

Edited due to guideline transgression.

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 02-05-2001).]
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


30 posted 02-05-2001 09:55 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

I've been quietly reading this post...biding my time, wondering if I should say anything at all.

I decided to before this post gets locked completely due to complete denigration and/or an insult fest.

Jeremy. Look. We had that discussion awhile ago remember? Upon deciding I am not a complete nazi lol I had thought you had accepted that while Dark is labelled as such - it isn't a forum for suicide posts.

Finito.

The END.

That's it.

And truly - if you or any other regular Dark poster can't handle that - DEAL WITH IT. Or leave maybe. Because, this kind of discussion will NOT result in a shut down of the guidelines.



Perhaps dark is misappropriately named. Quite frankly - Dark is my biggest headache. I FRET over it. Half the time I can't find time to read anywhere else because I have my hands full of Dark. Yet, to me it serves an awesome purpose. There is a close community there - people let out their hurt and receive understanding.

Yes, suicide is a part of life. I understand the need to express it. It just has to be accepted that dark or any other forum here is not going to allow posts that GLORIFY or give suicide as a VALID option.

You wonder why your poem stayed there so long before Nan removed it - simply because I was on a 36 hour journey over to America for a visit and my computer had crashed two days before I left. Rest assured - if I had seen it earlier it would've been in mods WAY earlier.

Jeremy, although you are frustated - I really don't appreciate you insulting Nan or anyone else. It is much easier not to and you will be listened to with more respect if you don't make snide remarks. Maybe I sound like I am lecturing - but oh well...

there it is.

Frankly - I really don't think anything I or anyone else can say is going to make a tiny bit of difference to your opinion - so be it. You ARE entitled to your opinion after all. Please keep in mind that your opinion here will NOT change the way the guidelines work Jeremy.

Like it or lump it.

Dark kisses - lol...I agree that people should not be ridiculed when presenting an opinion - yet, that person shouldn't stoop to ridicule first if they want respect returned.

That's all I have to say right now.

K
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


31 posted 02-06-2001 04:43 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

firejerm,

Still waiting for that e-mail.  

Brad
Irie
Senior Member
since 12-01-1999
Posts 1526
Washington State


32 posted 02-13-2001 02:13 AM       View Profile for Irie   Email Irie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irie

OH MY!
Uhhhhh....I think it's best I keep my "fly off the hande,
loud mouth" shut!  

I'm out of here!


~Sheri

"The things that come to those that wait may be the things
left by those who got there first"


Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


33 posted 02-13-2001 05:38 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

Hmm.

Where to begin..?

Jeremy, allow me to assure you that you have not been singled out.  You are not the first, nor will you be the last poet to have his work pulled from the forums (especially Dark) for content.

Those of us who have been around for a while have heard all the rants about free speech, equal rights, and the evils of censorship.  Heck, some of us have even been  flag-wavers ourselves (yes, guilty -- LOL) when the heat of the moment and righteous indigantion seemed to warrant it.

When the smoke cleared, however, some of us realized the greater implications of our irresponsibility -- and yes, that is what it is -- and apologized for acting like children who were told they couldn't have ice cream before dinner (yes, guilty again).  The rest, who just couldn't seem to fathom the error of their ways, left.

And Passions went on.

Jeremy, I don't know you ... and I admit I never read the offending post.  I'm not sure I would want to.  Granted, I've written my share of suicide poetry, and even dealt with the reality once -- not something I care to remember.  In short, all my poetry about suicide ended up exactly where it belonged -- in the trash, right along with the VERY BAD idea which spawned it.  Yes, Jeremy, suicide is real ... too real, if you ask me.  Not to mention very final.

Perhaps your poetry is a way for you to reach out to others and ask for their help, or sympathy, or whatever it is you think you need.  In a perfect world, that would be a wonderful thing ... but as I believe this post has demonstrated, the world is far from perfect.  OK, Jeremy, so you're having a bad day.  Or a bad life.  You write poetry, you bleed your emotions into the words, you get your release ... and perhaps, you feel better.  Your work has done its job, for you.

Now, let me give you a hypothetical (though not unlikely) situation:  I am a teenager who reads in Dark Passions because the poetry there closely resembles my current emotional state.  I live in a home with a stepmother who hates me, I just found out that my boyfriend (who I swear I am in love with) is cheating on me, and I can't seem to do well in school no matter how hard I try.  Maybe I'm overweight.  Maybe my features don't quite fit the description "beautiful."  Maybe any one of a million other things is going wrong in my life that makes me think that it might not be worth going on.  Maybe, just maybe, I'm walking the edge.

Oh sure, there's fear ... I mean, death is death, and there's no turning back, right..?  If only I could work up the courage, it would be so easy ...

And then I read your poem.  Did it come straight out and say "Kill yourself, it'll be neat..?"  No.  But it was so moving ... so beautiful ... so ... well, poetic.  

Maybe, just maybe, someday Jeremy will write a poem about me.

And so it begins.

I am going to assume that you have a conscience, and that the above scenario truly frightened you.  You may not care about your own life, Jeremy, and if such is the case, I pray that you have those around you who do.  I hope someone can show you that suicide is not the answer.

In the meantime, I ask that you not give that hypothetical "me" one more reason to add to the many I already have ... because you never know, it might be the last one I need.

Sorry for the drama.

Linda
Dark Enchantress
Senior Member
since 07-27-99
Posts 1460
meet Morgana


34 posted 02-13-2001 03:06 PM       View Profile for Dark Enchantress   Email Dark Enchantress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Dark Enchantress's Home Page   View IP for Dark Enchantress

Oke now children let's cut the crap. Look, Jeremy you should be more respectful of the guidelines that you agreed to and also civil. I mean let's not get into the petty insults. Instead why don't we all try being a little understanding. Being a moderator isn't easy. Dealing with poems like yours (and my own) are difficult to deal with because as someone earlier stated...they're borderline. And as for everyone else...be a little understanding to the issue. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and simmer down. Having your poem removed can boil anyone's nerves. BUT...we also need to move on. So, shall we?

I am no one if not myself.

Angel of Darkness




[This message has been edited by Dark Enchantress (edited 02-13-2001).]
Swamp¤Faeryie
Member
since 12-04-2000
Posts 395
fairyland....of course;)


35 posted 02-14-2001 02:24 PM       View Profile for Swamp¤Faeryie   Email Swamp¤Faeryie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Swamp¤Faeryie

Well.....i would have to say jeremy,that i did not veiw your poem as offensive...it was a sad sad story,and i would also have to say that i did not think it glorified suicide,the overwhelming message was in y perception 'sad story,how awful!!'. I too posted a poem a short time ago that i did not necessarily veiw as glorying suicide or self injury,but it was deleted.It's true that it depends on how the reader takes it,it may not always be as the writer intended,but that's life right?? When that poem was deleted i was mildly disappointed,but not really surprised,to me,it's a given,anything ANYTHING dealing with suicide or self injury is automaticly subject to scrutiny. And as a 'dark(er) artist' you have to just naturally expect that here. Please don't feel you're being singled out,just be more careful in the future?! Just because you or i don't veiw blood and tears as glorifying suicide does not mean that someone else couldn't read it and say it does,there is an open space there,you have to admit that looked at from a certain perspective it COULD be construed as glorification,that's just part of life ya know?

sammi


Do i contradict myself?Very well i contradict myself.I contain multitudes.~walt whitman
Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 04-06-2000
Posts 10553


36 posted 02-14-2001 03:18 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose




[This message has been edited by Kathleen (edited 02-15-2001).]
Greeneyes617
Member
since 11-22-2000
Posts 335
Arkansas


37 posted 02-15-2001 06:25 PM       View Profile for Greeneyes617   Email Greeneyes617   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Greeneyes617

Ok. I have read all of this...twice....Why does the word "Baptist" keep coming up?? Please explain.
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


38 posted 03-01-2001 05:58 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u




Christopher said-> ( We are more than willing to reasonably discuss the issues, but when someone insist on refusing to see logic... it makes it difficult.)

??
Did anyone give Jeremy the courtesy of contacting him before the poem was deleted to explain why? Or was the poem just Removed and he had to find out WHY?
Who percieved the poem to beyond the guidlines of what is borderline and what isn't? Did what you read strike a nerve?
Many have said "the guidline have been stretched in many cases and it was difficult deciding what to do!"
Example: the phrase "Oh God!!!" can be taken in many contexts...think about it!
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


39 posted 03-01-2001 06:37 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

Im reposting Jeremys poem for those of you who didn't get the chance to read it.  To the moderators: This could have been my story a short years back..but instead of cut wrists...i used pills and booze!  I didn't succeed!  So delete me as a member if you wish but I see nothing in his poem the promotes sucided!  What i see is a wake up call for the majority to reach out to those who are ALONE and in PAIN!  Trisha


Deleted by Poet deVine


Jeremy T. Sellers
8:00 PM
1/31/01


[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 03-01-2001).]
firejerm
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 216
Springfield, OH, good ol USA


40 posted 03-01-2001 06:41 PM       View Profile for firejerm   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for firejerm

It's good to see that there are those who can read this for what the message actually is and not what some perceive it to be. It's also nice to know that people took the time to actually read it before nailing me instead of hopping on the piptalk bandwagon, and assuming what the masses were speaking of was truth. It means a lot to me.


"Those little slices of death, how I loathe them."
-Edgar Allen Poe
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


41 posted 03-01-2001 07:07 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

Jeremy..I posted my last reply after reading your poem for the first time. I read it after i read all the comments and replies here. Thank you for letting me view it.

Maybe a few should go to Dark passions 3 and read the message by Ginner?

Your poem was about a woman at the end of her pain...Very Alone. The note is a cry for Help! As so many times in life 'we" walk by those in the deepest of pain only to ask the question after they are no longer with us! "Why didn't she ask for help? I had no clue thing were this bad?!!" To which i ask..."Why didn't you notice her pain?"
Simply.... people would rather walk on by someones else cries for help and then face it.

Keep up the good work
Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


42 posted 03-01-2001 07:35 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

I'm sorry, Trisha, but there is a little word you are ignoring here: GUIDELINES.

I guess I am going to have to mindlessly repeat myself here:

Part of Ron's policy is that poems which include the glorification and romanticism of suicide and/or offer suicide as a valid option to life's problems ARE UNACCEPTABLE. Now you can sit here and quibble over whether this poem meets that criteria all you want. The fact is - that decision was made previously in the moderator's forum.

If I had moderating powers in this forum the poem wouldn't remain here.

Kamla
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


43 posted 03-01-2001 07:44 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I do have the authority, though I hate to use it, but I feel the poem is definitely against the guidelines so I deleted it. Please read the guidelines if you have any questions.
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


44 posted 03-01-2001 07:49 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

Severn...Thank you but I have ignored nothing.

Okay so as the guidelines state...then why was a Very GOOD poem allowed to remain that told the tale of a young man in the middle of the VN war, who found himself in a situation where he had to befriend the enemy by sharing water and rations ....only to be forced to kill him later? Isn't the glorifying Death?
Elizabeth
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful


45 posted 03-01-2001 07:54 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

Trisha, would you mind providing a link to the poem you mentioned so others can view it? I would like to see it.
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


46 posted 03-01-2001 07:59 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

Which one Elizabeth...Jeremys or the one about The young soldier in VN?
Elizabeth
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful


47 posted 03-01-2001 08:09 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

The Vietnam one....I read Jeremy's already.
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


48 posted 03-01-2001 08:49 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

It is a very good poem by Hard Rock in Dark Passions 2 dated 7-18-00 on page 95.

When i read this one last year it brought tears to my eyes. My BL did his 2 tours in VN in the thick of it all.

There are many poems that talk of death... if you start at page 129 and read forth..well!

So if the Guildline are that specific...I should think alot of the poems posted should be Deleted!!!!
Trisha4_u
Member
since 06-13-2000
Posts 64


49 posted 03-01-2001 09:03 PM       View Profile for Trisha4_u   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trisha4_u

On that note! I've said my piece. The powers that be might want to re-think a few things or choose to continue to ingore the obvious!
Yes...I have had my finger on the delete button in a forum/club before.
No... it isn't an easy reponsiblity to have, because no matter what you do some is upset at your choices. Then on the other hand, some enjoy the power trip and control!

Hasta Trisha

firejerm will be notified of replies
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