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Passions in Poetry

No apology

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Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


0 posted 04-05-2001 11:53 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I have often been angry with the way my government so completely misunderstands Asian governments. Nevertheless, in this current situation (the plane thing), do not, do not, do not aplogize. I know I have no influence here but sometimes I have to say my peace.

Thanks,

Brad
Acies
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1 posted 04-05-2001 02:05 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

In what way Brad?

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

Dopey Dope
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2 posted 04-05-2001 03:34 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

*confused*
forevernbluejeans
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since 04-05-2001
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3 posted 04-06-2001 02:35 AM       View Profile for forevernbluejeans   Email forevernbluejeans   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for forevernbluejeans

No...no apology...yes offer sympathy on the loss of their pilot...the US has got to quit being the peacemaker and start being the nation she should be...does this mean I want this country to go to war? Oh hell no...but it just seems to me that lately we as a nation have been seen as weak. Whe else do so many other countries feel like they can get away with terrorist attacks against us? We ARE a superpower...its time the rest of the world remembered that.
Severn
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since 07-17-99
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4 posted 04-06-2001 08:20 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

Superpower huh?

Under the capitalist world system I guess that is true.

Tell me, WHY exactly does the rest of the world need to remember this?

K
Acies
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5 posted 04-06-2001 09:27 AM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Can someone explain to me what's up with the "plane thing" in detail pls.  Thanks

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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6 posted 04-06-2001 10:41 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, it would appear that two Chinese jet fighters (fast and manueverable) were shadowing a US spy prop plane (slow and not so manueverable). Jets come from below and behind, in the prop planes blind spot (kinda like passing in the other lane while heading up a hill). One jet clears and starts keeping pace before plane, but the other one gets clipped when the slower prop plane dips the left wing to turn left (not knowing there was a jet below it). The jet shears off the nose of the prop plane, and tumbles from the sky. Pilot of that jet had a history of bumping planes and reckless flying, coming so close to one US plane that the pilots of the US plane could read the Chinese pilot's email addy, which he was holding in the window. Plane was crippled and had to land somewhere...landed on a very heavily fortified Chinese island. The US crew, touted as guests, are nothing more than POWs until they are released. Well...POW may be a bit strong...how about hostage instead. They've been interrogated, isolated, and above all, detained on a military base, and diplomats, US or not, do not have the security clearance to enter a foreign military istablishment unless permission is granted.

Now, I'm a bit jaded and cynical. I think this entire fiasco was orchestrated by China to gain access to one of the twelve US spy planes and the hardware therein.

Alicat
LoveBug
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7 posted 04-06-2001 11:26 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I agree. Whatever our guys had to do to defend themselves should be acceptiable. No apologies should be given, because it was the Chinese who started this stuff in the first place!

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel."-Machiavelli

Dopey Dope
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8 posted 04-06-2001 12:37 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Well thanks ali for the in depth explanation. Now I am enlightened. Honestly why were WE spying in the first place?
Americans shouldn't have been there....

Acies
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9 posted 04-06-2001 02:30 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

I believe that the American's do have to apologize if that's the case.  The whole event was created by an American spy plane illegally flying over another country's airspace.  China at that.  When the US decides to spy on other countries, this is a risk they have to take, and every other event caused by this wrong doing (which in this case is spying) we have to accept responsibility for it.

Imagine what the US would do if the situation is reversed.  Imagine the outcry of of the American people at that too.

Remember, I basing my comment here on the explanation above  

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

Lakewalker
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since 08-05-2000
Posts 3939
On the streets w/ people


10 posted 04-06-2001 03:07 PM       View Profile for Lakewalker   Email Lakewalker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lakewalker

As far as I recall, it was over international waters.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"  
Unknown
Ever tried the Teen Explorer Forum?

Acies
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11 posted 04-06-2001 04:53 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Well, if it was on international waters, that's a different story then....Now, I have to take back what I said  

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

JLR
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since 02-04-2001
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12 posted 04-06-2001 06:01 PM       View Profile for JLR   Email JLR   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JLR

I don't believe the plane was spying, it was transporting 'spy equipment' and yes, was over international waters.  
Severn
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13 posted 04-06-2001 06:20 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

I'm going to say something that will sound rather naive...however I truly believe that simplest is best sometimes - and is rarely employed.

All the American government has to do is apologise yes? (This is what I read in my paper yesterday anywho.) They won't.

Because of this, there are men detained, isolated, likely missing their families, and possibly in physical discomfort...

hmmmmmmmmmmm...

but of course beauracracy will win won't it?

Most nations won't treat their military right - oh they SAY they do...but when it comes down to it.

Look at Desert Storm.
Look at Vietnam.

Or am I getting onto touchy subjects here...

sheesh - hurry up and apologise already. NO offense guys, but c'mon. Let the men go home...avoid possible military contact - cause this is CHINA we're talking about.

K
JLR
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14 posted 04-06-2001 08:49 PM       View Profile for JLR   Email JLR   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JLR

Well, I wasn't going to get into the politics of this because I figure opinions about politics and religion are as abundant  as boogers and everyone's always so quick to pick one out and flick it at somebody...but then I thought, what the heck, I'll flick, too.  So, now that I've revealed my relative level of intelligence, this is what I think about the 'plane thing'.

I, too, wonder at the accidental nature of this.  That aside, I would like to respond to Severn's comments.  I'm not sure what was intended by the response about the rest of the world remembering that we are a superpower but personally, I didn't care for the tone of the statement, either, and tend to agree with Severn's response.  
As to why America won't 'just apologize', I would compare that to this scenario...I am driving to work one day and my car is clipped by another driver whose car then spins out of control, hits a tree and the driver is killed.  My car also is damaged and so I must pull into a nearby driveway for safety.  It just so happens that this driveway belongs to the deceased drivers spouse, who upon learning of these events, locks me inside his/her house, cleans my car out of all valuables and refuses to return me or my car and belongings to my family...until they apologize.  Would that not be an absurd request, not to mention...a hostage situation?  Whether America should apologize or not is not the issue as far as I am concerned.  I don't believe Severn's comments were  not so much naive as idealistic.  And idealism, I applaud.  But to apologize when a wrong has been committed against this country, not by this country is ludicrous.  And though it may seem like a 'simple' way to end this issue and return those taken hostage to their homes and families...I believe, in the long term, it would only encourage other hostile forces to play such dangerous, inhumane games against America and it's military personal.
As to the other comments...beaucracy has nothing to do with it.  Living here, I know personally that our government saves it's best beaucratic offerings for its own citizens.
I won't comment on the 'touchy subjects' except to say that they are only relavent to this situation because all wars are fought over power and today power equals money: not simply military strength.
And yes, we're talking about China!  Arguably, a greater 'superpower' than America believes itself to be.  China, I believe, holds the status of 'most favored nation' for trading with America.  Why?  Because if we fully play our 'superpower' hand, at best, we are likely to end up with more innocent dead than we are any true 'victory'.  If China (and don't forget their allies) wanted to call our bluff, they could very probably collapse our economy.  
In my opinion, that is the bottom line here.  We 'honored' this country with a trade agreement that ultimately gave them power over us.  They are now exerting that power.
I pray that the powers that be in America do not allow this to escalate to the point of violent aggression.  And I pray they don't have to apologize for a wrong uncommited to avoid such.  
Severn---I thank you for your thoughts.  They really got me to thinking myself.  

[This message has been edited by JLR (edited 04-06-2001).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


15 posted 04-09-2001 01:34 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

While I think the Powell response was brilliant (better than I would have come up with), I stand by my initial comment. It's precisely because it is CHINA that America can't apologize. Or, do you want to return to a Chinese sphere of influence in this part of the world, Severn? This was/is a test. A test of resolve. I think it was an accident but all accidents can and are used for other purposes.

Of course, there is another country in these parts that can counter China's power.

Japan can go nuclear in under six months.

Brad



 
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