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Passions in Poetry

Napster

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Angel
Senior Member
since 07-02-99
Posts 597
Pennsylvania


0 posted 03-23-2001 09:08 PM       View Profile for Angel   Email Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel

What is your take on the music world's reaction to Napster. I recently wrote a letter to my Congressmen (Mr. Kanjorski, Mr. Santoroum, and Mr. Spector) which reads like this:

Music is the language of the people and record labels have recently been trying to silence us. As I am sure you all ready kow, there have been attempts to shut the Napster Music Community down without a fair trial. All of this is done in the name of 'music'.

The thing most of the successful record companies don't seem to understand is that music isn't about how much money you make or who signs the biggest artist. Music is one of the few things left that all people are passionate about. I believe music is directly connected to human emotion. When you think about it, music is a way to celebrate the landmarks of our lives. We all remember the first song we slow danced to or our wedding song.

When a person hears a song they enjoy, they find a way to listen to it over and over again. They may have a friend make them a tape with the song on it, tape it off the radio, or buy the record. Recently, a new avenue for music has come into play, the internet.

The Napster Music Community started off as nothing more than a young man with a passion for technology and a love of music. After studying the law with careful scrutiny, Shawn Fanning began the musical phenomenon we know as Napster.

If you are unfamiliar with the format of Napster, I will now take the time to explain. Napster gives music fans of all ages a chance to broaden their horizons both through the sharing of music and its chat capabilities. When you find a song that you enjoy, you are able to download it to your hard drive in the form of an MP3. It gives new bands that normally would have trouble getting a start in the business all the recognition and support they could possibly ask for.

Napster was not meant to rip anyone off. The owners of Napster started the company to support artists in their efforts to create music. If, for example, you find a song you like while using the Napster application, more than likely you are apt to buy the record. Napster is simply a sampling of music from any given artist, not another way to 'rob them of their rights'.

Music brings people together. Napster gets music to people of every race, every gender, and many different economic statuses. It was formed for the simple purpose of offering every person the chance to enjoy many different kinds of music. Napster is no different than turning on your radio and listening or video taping a concert you saw last summer.

It has been said that The Napster Music Community is nothing more than a group of Rag Tag Rebels. If that's true or not, I really wouldn't be able to tell you, but if it is, I'm more than proud to belong to that group. I plan to stand up and fight for what I believe in, after all, isn't that exactly the kind of behavior you are trying to initiate in the members of my generation? We are the wave of the future and our music is on Napster, hopefully the world will listen.

The Napster Music Community currently consists of 7,790 users. Are your ready to tell each of those people you sat back and ignored their pleas for help as money-hungry record companies stole their music?

As of right now, Napster does not make a profit from the music they allow the world to share, but in a recent agreement purposed by Napster, the artists will be compensated.

Gentlemen, I consider myself blessed to have been born in the United States of America. It is here, that every citizen of every color, age, and gender has a voice. The time has come to show the world this. Our time has come to show the world that we will not be silenced by the multimillion dollar corporations of the world. I write to you today begging you to not let us be silenced. Do what you need to do to let our voice be heard amongst millions of others. If you deem it necessary, please pass a legislation that will benefit everyone involved. We are your future, please listen to us.

I am a sixteen year old from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. The issue involving Napster has inspired me to get involved. I hope it will do the same for you. I thank you on behalf of music listeners and Napter users every where.


I'm trying to get support for Napster. If you would be willing to fill out a short survey, please email me. I plan to send the results to record companies who are planning to sue Napster.

I hope I'm not out of place posting this here, and if I am, I'm sorry.

~Susie

Many people hear voices when no one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at walls all day. Others are calle

kcsgrandma
Senior Member
since 09-24-2000
Posts 1526
Presque Isle, ME


1 posted 03-23-2001 10:10 PM       View Profile for kcsgrandma   Email kcsgrandma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit kcsgrandma's Home Page   View IP for kcsgrandma

Susie

You have written a very passionate plea for Napster, and you make some good points. I do not use Napster myself, but I have a teenaged daughter who does, and who has downloaded some very good music from it. My problem with it is that the music that you are downloading for free is somebody's intellectual property. That may seem like a small thing to you, and perhaps you feel you are helping lesser known artists, but I write music as well as poetry, and I would not be happy to have someone else use what I write without my permission, even if it "helped" me to become known. I have also performed in orchestras and chamber music groups, and I can tell you it is very hard work. Although most of my performing was on a voluntary basis, I can understand if a professional doesn't want his work distributed without pay, can't you? As much as you may enjoy it, there is no "right" to listen to what someone else has produced without paying for it. Do I share what I have written without charge? Clearly yes, here and elsewhere on the 'net, among family and friends, and at church, but it is MY choice to do so. It is not something that should be forced on anyone, simply because someone else likes what he or she may have produced. That being said, I do commend you for making an articulate plea for what you believe in. I hope you get a response, whether favorable or not. You do deserve to be heard.

To love another person is to see the face of God.
- Les Miserables

Marilyn

WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


2 posted 03-23-2001 10:51 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Though I'd love to get something for free, but you have to stop and put yourself there for a moment.

How would like it if someone took your copyrighted poetry, and gave it away for free to millions of people, and you never got the royalties you deserved for it?

Really what people are doing is stealing there work and complaining they can't have it. To me it's like walking into the store and lifting it, saying it's 'music' I have the right to it. Whatever light you put on it, it's just plain theft. If the tables were turned, I have a feeling all these people who are now complaining to keep it, would be a bit angry that their work was being stolen too.
Angel
Senior Member
since 07-02-99
Posts 597
Pennsylvania


3 posted 03-23-2001 10:53 PM       View Profile for Angel   Email Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel

Marilyn,

I understand your point of view completely. Do I believe the artist should be asked permission first? Absolutely. Should they be compesated? It could be done by charging for ad banners. I also believe that if we do find a few songs from the same artist we like, that is all the more reason for us to buy that artist's CD. My friends and I have come across many new groups that way, only to buy their album. I don't think Napster really wants to take the musicians rights. The musicians should be asked to sign an agreement first, but it would be nearly impossible with all the different artists. I think a logical solution can be reached where all parties are satisfied. Thanks for your response.

~Susie

Many people hear voices when no one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at walls all day. Others are calle

Angel
Senior Member
since 07-02-99
Posts 597
Pennsylvania


4 posted 03-23-2001 11:30 PM       View Profile for Angel   Email Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel

WhtDove,

I'm sorry you snuck in on me. I'm agreeing with you on some points, don't get me wrong, I guess it can be sort of hard to see it from both directions. Supporting Napster is simply my opinion and I can definitely see where you are coming from with yours. Thanks for responding.

~Susie

Many people hear voices when no one is there. Some of them are called mad and are shut up in rooms where they stare at walls all day. Others are calle

Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


5 posted 03-24-2001 01:45 AM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Don't worry, there's www.songspy.com
shhhhh............

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


6 posted 03-24-2001 04:03 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

LOL acire! Cute, that really did make me laugh. LOLOLOL
LoveBug
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 01-08-2000
Posts 5015


7 posted 03-24-2001 05:37 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

People record shows and movies off of TV, make homemade cassette tapes, and make copies of their favorite poetry and hand it out, and somehow that doesn't seem to be copyright infringement, and Napster is... Where's the logic in that?
kcsgrandma
Senior Member
since 09-24-2000
Posts 1526
Presque Isle, ME


8 posted 03-24-2001 06:56 PM       View Profile for kcsgrandma   Email kcsgrandma   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit kcsgrandma's Home Page   View IP for kcsgrandma

LoveBug - It depends somewhat on the use of those things. You are allowed to make a copy of a television program for a one-time viewing in your home, perhaps to copy a single poem for one-time use in a classroom. This is called "fair use". What you cannot do is copy a collection of poems and use it as your textbook, or record a movie and show it to a group and charge admission. People violate copyright law all the time, but that doesn't make it right. Yes, you can make a homemade cassette tape of something you own, but you aren't supposed to make copies and hand them out to all your friends. People do it, but it is copyright infringement. Something like Napster is easier to target than some individual making bootleg copies for friends, but that doesn't mean either one is better or worse. It just means one is more visible and easier to document than the other.

To love another person is to see the face of God.
- Les Miserables

Marilyn

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


9 posted 03-24-2001 09:06 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

This is going to be a little strange, but I'm going to post the same answer to two entirely different threads. One thread is about California and the fairly serious energy shortage there, while the other thread is about Napster and whether music should be free to all. These may seem unrelated, but I think both threads are actually talking about the same thing.

There's a lot of talk in the California thread (and in California) about conservation, and even suggestions that lack of conservation is the real problem. It's not. There's no shortage of electricity in this here Universe, only a shortage of facilities to generate and control it. There are a LOT of reasons behind California's current problems, most seemingly tied to a deregulation that did nothing to encourage conservation or ensure construction of power plants. But, in truth, it goes back many years prior to deregulation.

Here's the deal. If you invest $100 in plan X, there's a chance you'll lose all or some of it. But there's also the possibility you can turn your $100 into $200. You can lose all your money or you can double your money? What do you do? Well, of course it depends on the odds in either direction, but as long as the chance for success is above fifty percent, it's not a bad deal. Now suppose, the government steps in and says, well, you can still lose your $100, but the most we will let you make on the deal is $120. Now, you can lose all of your money or you can make twenty bucks. The risk has suddenly grown much larger than the potential gain, and most investors will probably find better places to put their money.

Before there was deregulation in California, there was (duh) regulation. Which is just a fancy name for price-fixing. The effects may be recent, but the cause goes back many years - because that's how long it takes to build energy producing plants. And that is what is lacking in California. Why? Because for many years the government made if difficult to justify investing the billions (yea, that's a "b") of dollars necessary to upgrade the system. Businessmen will not invest their money when the risk isn't offset by suitable gain. And you really can't blame them.

Deregulation was an attempt to fix this historical oversight, but it was poorly implemented and came a little too late. California needed a longer transition period, I think, where investors were encouraged to build new plants while still protecting current supplies of energy. But even if implementation had been perfect, there would still in all likelihood be an energy crisis in California today. Because, without incentives, people don't risk their money.

What does this have to do with Napster?

From a personal perspective, I strongly dislike copyright infringements. I suspect everyone already knew that.   But from an economics standpoint, the issues go much deeper and relate directly to the problems in California.

Music companies invest millions of dollars in building popular stars. They will lose money on twenty unknown artists in the hopes of recouping those losses on that one big-name personality. The result is good music for us and profits for them. And that system has worked pretty well for quite a few years. Then along comes something like Napster, making it very easy for hundreds of thousands of people to download free music and avoid paying for those CD's. You can argue all day long that free downloads will lead to increased sales, but that's obviously not the way the recording companies see it. And it's up to them to decide how best to market their product. Take away that freedom to run their own business, and few of them will continue to try.

You may want music to be free, but that's not the reality of life. Someone, at some point, has to pay for nurturing the artists, building those sophisticated recording studios, launching those impressive branding campaigns, and distributing those millions of plastic discs. Companies have been willing to make those investments (in a very risky business model) because they believed they could make a profit. Remove that incentive - or even the perception of that incentive - and they're not going to risk their money.

People simply do not invest in the future without suitable incentives. The state of California (and many other states, even now) believed that energy should be cheap. The result is today's energy shortage. If too many people insist that music (and other intellectual efforts) should be free, the result will eventually be a shortage of good music.

You get what you pay for, if not now, then certainly eventually.
Jamie
Member Elite
since 06-26-2000
Posts 3219
Blue Heaven


10 posted 03-25-2001 01:23 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

Certainly downloading copyrighted material is wrong,, but the existance of Napster is not. Imagine if they shut down the highway system because they were used illegaly,, as in to transport drugs or weapons,, because of speeders and drunk drivers etc... just because something CAN be used for wrong shouldn't make it illegal.. after all,, even this site could be used in much the same way..should it be shut down because somebody might post as their own the words of another,, I know that is a bit apple and orangeish, but they are related...all I am saying is I don't see how the government can shut down napster when it is really a matter of enforcment of the unenforceable.. much like the laughable "war on drugs".....

All the above is oversimplification I know, but...

Jamie

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil.
"Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely".

doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


11 posted 03-25-2001 05:59 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

when i am online, i am either here (passions) or at napster, downloading music.

my take on it is this.....

first, to preface, i am in advertising as my vocation, my career, so if this is slanted in that direction, you'll understand why i think this way

most mp3 files are 3.5 - 7 mg. it takes sometimes 20 minutes to download one song, depending on your connection speed and the connection speed of the person who is "sharing" with you (and this is just based on how long it takes me to download one song at a time while doing other things online at the same time, i.e. writing an email, talking to someone on icq, writing a poem, etc)

at any rate, i truly believe this is not going away. napster is one of many other sites connecting people to share music files and they will continue to spring up all the time.

here's what i think....

NOBODY is going to sit there, in today's technology and download an entire cd.... first, you have to FIND each and every song from someone who has a good connection and fast ping rate and then, oftentimes it STILL times-out and you have to start all over....

the record labels should think of this as ADVERTISING.....

for instance, i have often been in the car, listening to a song, loving it, i write the name of the song down and the title and when i get home, go to napster, find it and download it, but LATER.... if it's an artist i have just discovered or from a new cd by an artist i already care for very much... i will BUY the cd....

for example, i discovered Eva Cassidy because I heard her version of "Fields of Gold" on the radio and HAD to have it... downloaded it from napster.... and guess what? tomorrow i am going out to buy the cd... what an angelic wonderful voice...

at any rate... i truly think the record labels and artists should USE napster as an ADVERTISING/ marketing feature.... if they pointed people there and said, something like "download one song from napster, and you'll buy the whole cd, i gaurantee it"..... lol.... it might just happen


of course, i also write advertising copy so, i sorta liked the way that sounds....

the negative reaction by the record labels and some of the artists is bogus.....it can HELP them make money, not take money from them

thanks for hearing my take on it.... now, after i get a few more hours of sleep, i'm going back to napster to download a couple of tunes and then off to "coconuts", our local cd store, to buy the full cds of a couple of the artists i have recently discovered, including Eva Cassidy.....

.... and i truly believe i could develop a viable, successful marketing/advertising campaign for any of the record labels, using napster as the hook, if only one of them were smart enough to hire me.... rofl


god, i love my music....

peace, love and happiness all..... rock on... and all that jazz.... music is classical.... and i often have the blues.... keeps me in tune.... and several people on these boards have come to visit me and know for a fact that i probably have one of the largest cd collections of anyone they know.... i might make a playlist, downloaded from napster.... but eventually i buy the cd.....

.... i think of it sort like the LE version of a software program.... you might TRY it for a while, but one day, you want to OWN the whole thing... the entire enchilada... because it's THAT good.... and so, you open up your pocketbook and spring for it.....

it's advertising... and it works.... and record labels and attorneys and all that are simply wasting time and money trying to get rid of it because it's not going anywhere...... if they close napster down, there are already about 10 other sites right on their heels and there will be more....

advertising... marketing.... it's the cool deal, baby..... if they thought of the positive and used it to their advantage... all would be happy and everybody would make more money and every body would have more good music in their collection....

ok... goodnight.... er good morning... lol... peace

-There is no Devil. Just God when He drinks. - Tom Waits

Jesse Jaymz
Senior Member
since 01-24-2000
Posts 757
Youngstown, ohio


12 posted 03-25-2001 06:25 AM       View Profile for Jesse Jaymz   Email Jesse Jaymz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jesse Jaymz's Home Page   View IP for Jesse Jaymz

ok time for this outlaw to post what he thinks. as a musician that has a cd out i can see both sides of this story. being a musician i can see why someone would get mad over someone stealing there music for free. also i can see that a person wanteing to hear a song before they buy the cd. i have found so much on napster that i cant get on a cd. and i think that is great. so i guess i am alittle in the middle on this. i feel that making a cd from mp3s is just the same as borrwing your friends tape and taping it to a blank. of course thats just my opinon i could be wrong...

I'm a saint and I'm sinner,
I'm a loser and a winner,
I'm steady and unstable,
I'm young but I am able...

Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


13 posted 03-25-2001 06:51 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Doreen - DSL: I can download 3.5Megs in less than a minute.

Peace.

C
Dopey Dope
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


14 posted 03-25-2001 01:03 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

I don't DL music off the net.....I just burn the cd's
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


15 posted 03-25-2001 04:13 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

CHRISTOPHER!!!!! kewl kewl kewl

DSL is HERE march 29th.... hehe... can't WAIT!!!

thank you, my sweet friend and please say hello to ms piggy... hehe.... she'll understand the reference

luvyaboth!!!!!
Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


16 posted 03-25-2001 04:19 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

again www.songspy.com
shhhhhhh......

"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this give life to thee." W.S.

Dopey Dope
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


17 posted 03-25-2001 08:23 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

*speaks really loud*
SONG SPY!?!?!?!? WHAT'S THAT!!!!!!!!?!?!?!??!!

SONG SPY YOU SAY?!?!?!?!?!??!
Parker
Member Elite
since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


18 posted 03-26-2001 09:37 PM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

Here's my view on this....

First off, have I download off Napster... yes sir.
Have I bought any cd's because of this yes and no.
It has helped me to review the other music of the artist and decide weather I want the cd or not.
Do I think it will hurt the industry... most probably in the beginning.
Will it affect the availability of good music, I don't think so.
It will affect some artists, from getting super rich and record companies from becoming super rich.
But nothing, will ever stop the music.
Just because a big company pushes an artist does not mean that it’s the only good music out there. There are an uncountable number of nobodies producing amazing music never heard on the airways and never will. Napster and the next generation type software like it will help spread music around.
Should Napster and the likes be forced to control what’s being download, I believe yes, but only copyrighted material. The Internet is changing the rules for everything, and I think for the better…. It’s a “Brave New World” Business will have to adjust to survive. Maybe just maybe the little guy will get his fair share now. If we take the poetry sites out there today and read some of the stuff, we know that many great works are being created, and read by the world… This is evident because they don’t have to be put down and have a door slammed in their face. Or Be turned away because some righteous, I know what the people want producer who happens to be in a bad mood decides he doesn’t like the somber tone of a brilliant work that’s put on his desk. Today to all the nay Sayers he can just say, well I’ll let the people decided. Will he get rich, maybe not, but he will be heard and loved and watched for more good stuff.
No the music will never stop, but the hidden works will come out and be heard from the people to the people. Hopefully we’ll find some way to pay them for their work.


Parker
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