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For Brad

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turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


0 posted 02-09-2009 12:13 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to Submit your Poem to Passions  View IP for turtle

Hi Brad,

"Turtle

Are you nuts"

Apparently you think so. Maybe you should explain yourself Brad.

Does this web site have private messaging?

I'm setting here drinking my coffee, not quite awake yet,
but even still, it doesn't seem right for a moderator to
attack a member in another members thread.

Is this policy?

I would think, this should be a private disscusion, but
if you want to do this in public, be my guest.
© Copyright 2009 turtle - All Rights Reserved
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


1 posted 02-09-2009 02:00 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Does this web site have private messaging?


If you go to Bradís post thereís a nifty little email icon at the top of it thatíll allow you to send mail to his registered address - whether he replies is up to him.

quote:
it doesn't seem right for a moderator to
attack a member in another members thread.


It isnít and, at least how I read it, he wasnít. It sounded more like an exclamation of disbelief regarding what you wrote rather than a serious question regarding your mental status. I could be wrong of course, after all I am officially nuts.

quote:
I would think, this should be a private disscusion, but
if you want to do this in public, be my guest.


Try emailing him if you want to discuss it privately, or reply in the original thread if you you want to keep it public, or better still, why not open a thread in the Alley and we can all play.

turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


2 posted 02-09-2009 02:06 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Good advise Grinch. Thank you.
turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


3 posted 02-09-2009 02:18 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Brad,

I have opened a thread in the alley.

Perhaps we should discuss this in public. There is probably something we could all gain from this, including me.

turtle
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


4 posted 02-09-2009 03:08 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

It might be worthwhile asking a passing Moderator to delete or lock this duplicate thread so itís not cluttering up CA and detracting from the poetry and critiques.

If youíve emailed Brad heíll find the post in the Alley.

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


5 posted 02-09-2009 05:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Calm down.  "Are you nuts?" isn't very intelligent, but it is hardly an attack.   It would be better to hear him out further before jumping to conclusions.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 02-09-2009 06:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sorry, Turtle. It was not intended as an attack. It certainly was not a question of your integrity. I was trying to be playful.
turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


7 posted 02-27-2009 05:11 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

This something borrowed something blue,
Will bring me down in front of you;
I'm promising to take you back,
To something to look forward to.

Starting, we contemplated ends,
Street corners where our knees would bend;
Praying to have our sins away,
By Heaven's showers angels send.

This back and forth is then and now,
It'll add up in the end somehow.
Tomorrow today, all the same

A masterpiece if we're the frame.
I mean, things do get out of hand;
Here's the bottom line, what stands out most is a success not planned.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chops,  

Now look......lol

I asked "what sonnet?"

Because the moment I read it typed on the page was the first time I even considered the possibility that this poem is a sonnet....lol

There are at least 10 million sites on the internet that explain how to write a sonnet.......

I've never seen anything like this on any of them.....

Tell me.......Tell me, Please?.........How is this a sonnet?.......

  
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


8 posted 02-27-2009 07:11 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

ď There are at least 10 million sites on the internet that explain how to write a sonnet.......Ē

Turtle. And some of those sites will tell you that the ONLY thing a poem needs to be a sonnet ~ is fourteen lines ~that is the only thing written is stone about a sonnet.

Shakespeare wrote 134 sonnets and the ONLY thing they all have in common is 14 lines.

I going to put this on a serch ( What is the only thing a poem needs to be a sonnet ) have a beer I'll get back to you,

There is even a name for it ~ The sonnet ghost ~ or was that ~ The sonic boom .


turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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9 posted 02-27-2009 07:47 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

HaHaHaHaHaHa

Chops...before you blow a gasket, let me explain what I mean.

Look at the last line of this poem?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Here's the bottom line, what stands out most is a success not planned."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The writer has taken the REAL last line......The !5th line and scrunched it
up into the Fourteenth line to make this a fourteen line poem.

He even put a comma at the end of the Fourteenth line to end the line.....lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Here's the bottom line,"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does moving the 15th line up into the 14th line make this a 14 line poem?

Noooooooo....lol

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


10 posted 02-27-2009 07:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
And some of those sites will tell you that the ONLY thing a poem needs to be a sonnet ~ is fourteen lines


Those would be the sites to avoid - the Curtal Sonnet has 11 lines.

quote:
Shakespeare wrote 134 sonnets


There are 154 sonnets attributed to Shakespeare.

turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


11 posted 02-27-2009 08:41 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Chops - here's one of the better links to help you support your argument

And grinch is right 14 lines dosen't even mean a poem is a sonnet.


http://www.thepoetsgarret.com/sonnet1.html
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


12 posted 02-27-2009 08:42 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Turtle, some of the 14th line was the poet touting how good the 14th line was, that was obvious to me.
I think we better hope that synthetic is not armed and known where we live

Grinch, I just read a sonnet of 12 lines, but I was talking about the modern off shoot of the  Shakespeare  sonnet.  In the 134 thingy the 3 was a typo , of course it should have been a 5 .

My poetry guru said 14 lines makes it a sonnet whether it rhymes or anything else.

Turtle, I donít have a gasket to blow , I canít afford one .

As I bid you a good night I will say what my logic professor would often say, ď Says who Ē
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


13 posted 02-27-2009 09:54 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

ď And grinch is right 14 lines dosen't even mean a poem is a sonnet .Ē

Turtle, Grinch didnít say that . He said, ď The curtal sonnet has 11 lines .

And a poem can be 14 lines without being a sonnet.

This is my simple statement :IF a poet wants to write a sonnet like synthetic did the ONLY hard and fast rule is it has to have more than 13 lines and less than 15 lines.. If a poet wants to write a 11 line sonnet he can do that too. Syn. wrote a 14 line sonnet and said it was a sonnet . He also followed some other suggested rules. I think when he wrote 14 lines and said it was a sonnet you should have excepted that and not said , what sonnet.

Iíve pecked as much as this finger will peck.
If that ainít pecking, then what the heck.

John, donít call me again tonight and tell me to go look at what Turtle just posted, I have a early pour in the morning.


turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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14 posted 02-27-2009 10:06 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Quote
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"we better hope that synthetic is not armed and known where we live"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"06-10-2006"

This is what is motivating me chops this date 06-10-2006. Synthetic has been
posting here for the good part of three years. To have posted a poem like
"As Long As We Get There" in CA after being here three years tells me
(Possibly others) something about CA.......Thank God he only has 55 posts

Whether Synthetic is, or will ever be a poet is not upto this site.

But to post this poem and think it is good is NOT his fault. He should have been told this at least 2.5 years ago.

However cold this may seem it is my opinion.

Now, as far as synthetic, if he doesn't want to put out the effort to improve his writing
(especially with all these resources at his fingertips) maybe he should go post this stuff in
Open Poetry #44. That is a place to pat them on the head and say. Good boy!....errr That's good!

I've tried to help him and it's not doing any good.

BTW - Did synthetic come in here and critique anyone's poem to suggest a desire for a critique?

Night chops. I'll get off my soapbox now            



[This message has been edited by turtle (02-28-2009 07:19 AM).]

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


15 posted 02-27-2009 10:47 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Syntheticís poem is not a recognised Sonnet form, at least not one that Iíve ever read.


quote:
To have posted a poem like "As Long As We Get There" in the CA after being here three years tells me (And others) something about CA


It certainly tells me something. It tells me that CA is a place where anyone at any level of poetic proficiency can post a poem in the hope of getting some constructive criticism without fear of ridicule or sustaining a verbal mauling.

quote:
BTW - Did synthetic come in here and critique anyone's poem to deserve a critique?


Nope, then again synthetic doesnít have to, if he doesnít he may find he gets fewer replies but, as far as I know, thereís no rule in that regard concerning replies.

.
turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


16 posted 02-27-2009 11:13 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Well grinch,

Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
can post a poem in the hope of getting some constructive criticism without fear of ridicule or sustaining a verbal mauling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm real sorry that you feel that way The opinion I stated to chops was my opinion
which I also stated and I was after all stating it to chops, not synthetic.


I can only wonder if you've read any of my other posts to synthetic?

Please tell me if this sounds like "ridicule or sustaining a verbal mauling." to you?

Here are just a few examples

Hi synthetic,

Not sure what you're looking for here??? How long have you been
writing poetry? Are you posting elsewhere on these poetry blogs?
What are others telling you about your writing? Have you tried any
poetry wokshops?


I try to give people my honest opinion and if you're posting in a critical forum,
I assume you are looking for help. Unfortunatly, I don't see an improvement
over the last post of yours I commented on. I think the best advise I could
give, would be to find a poetry workshop where you can get some help
with your writing skills.

There is no malice intended toward you here Synthetic. I do try to help
folks where I can, and my opinion should only be construed as my opinion.

turtle

sorry syn,

I was trying to be diplomatic. Like many, I have a harder time fixing my own poetry than I do others.
I think, perhaps, that is the problem here.

A little trick I learned from an old girlfriend is to print, or write
a poem out in the form of a letter. For me, and others, this helps to show where there is a problem with
context and clarity.

Hi synthetic,

I wanted to come back here to apologize. Sometimes I will economize on my use of words to make a point and come off sounding abrupt, or offensive. It usually has nothing to do with whom I'm writing to, I may have something in mind I think is more important that I want to move on to. I may be making breakfast and it's time to turn the eggs. What I meant to say was: You probably don't need to explain, I think you're trying to write irony, but it's just not coming out that way, or at least it's not for me.

Let's see, if I wanted to write using irony, what would I do? Heck synthetic, this is the internet. I could go to google and search for irony. I could use wikipedia to get some backgound and understanding of irony. I could read poems and stories and jokes that use irony, I could pay attention to, not only what is being said, but how a writer is using it.

I don't think irony is coming home and not finding someone and then not hearing their voice. I think it would be more like hearing someone's voice and then finding they're not there.

???
synthetic
Member
since 06-10-2006
Posts 62
ontario, canada


17 posted 02-28-2009 03:44 AM       View Profile for synthetic   Email synthetic   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for synthetic

So I've only just now taken the time to read this thread, and I'll say... WOAH! lol... Turtle, you really do need to ease up... my having been a member for three years does not imply that I've been an active one for that length of time. As for my lack of commentary/criticism on other pieces... well... considering I don't believe myself to be as knowledgeable as other writers such as Essorant (with his translations) for example, or several other writers on this forum... I don't pass judgement, or critique, because it wouldn't be of any value. If you make a remark, solely based on opinion, be sure that you'll be caught when someone asks you to justify yourself... I steer clear from making a "derriere" of myself - that's all.

Your reaction to this poem is quite odd... but ever so amusing. I think you're my biggest fan Turtle.

Oh and Chops... I am armed, and I do know where you live... lol... but I'm Canadian, so I'll be fighting with a musket!

Have a good night all!
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


18 posted 02-28-2009 08:17 AM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Turtle, you are very selective .  Synthetic ask for help and you gave him a few words of what for. Nina ask  

for help and you gave her six pages.  That is your business and calling you on it is my business . I am a

Charter member of the SYBM union of the USA and Canada and we are now organizing a local in the UK..

Btw Synthetic, how did you get that screen name?

turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


19 posted 02-28-2009 04:26 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Chops,

Yes I picked one of these kids to help, because of her innocense and enthusiasm

and because she'd never written a poem before. Do you think I'm doing it just for her?

There was just a young girl posted here, "Truth". Did we not all just tell her to put
more effort into her work before posting here. There have been several young
kids posting here lately and I believe I've suggested to all of them to put more
effort into their work. As far as synthetic I've put more time into trying to give him
some guidance than anyone else has since I've been here.


Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Synthetic ask for help and you gave him a few words of what for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Not true. go back to his posts and read what I said instead of making unfounded
accusations....Both you and grinch.

I know in your mind and others I may seem cruel, but in my mind I AM trying to
help him by telling him to get into a poetry workshop and improve. I've gone
through my posts in synthetic's threads and I cannot find anywhere I am giving
him what for.

I have also started to go back through the previous threads in CA and it seems
posters are spending more time talking......other than that, I guess I should hold
my opinion.

Chops you keep going into these threads I've posted in an questioning everything
I say. I'm sure you are just trying to gain some understanding, but do you think
that's right? - You should be addressing the poster not me.


It may seem on the surface I'm trying to be cruel, when all I'm really doing is
evaluating the situation and trying to reach an honest conclusion.


turtle
turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


20 posted 02-28-2009 04:43 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Synthetic,

If you want to come into this thread and read what I really think. This is a free country.
I know you don't like, or agree with what I think, but my concern here
is beyond your activities in CA.

Go read a book.

turtle
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


21 posted 02-28-2009 06:20 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

ď Not true. go back to his posts and read what I said instead of making unfounded
accusations....Both you and grinch. Ē

Turtle be careful what you ask for, I went back over Syntheticís thread and this is what I saw :

No one post- you called his poem a nursery rhyme and ask him how long he had been posting on C&A

No seven post- said you were making an insinuation when you ask synthetic how long he had been posting here.

No ten post -you said, I just donít see anything working here and then spent the rest of the post bragging about what you were going to do.

No thirteen post- after synthetic wrote a long post trying to connect with you , you said two words ~ What sonnet ~

No fourteen post -was almost embarrassing , you just posted one of your poems for the world to read.

And Turtle, that is just about it.

A dog barks and the caravan continues across the hot desert sands.
turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


22 posted 02-28-2009 08:01 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

"Turtle be careful what you ask for, I went back over Syntheticís thread and this is what I saw :"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No one post- you called his poem a nursery rhyme and ask him how long he had been posting on C&A"

(Hmmm, bit of a nursery rhyme isn't it?) A question is not "calling" anything
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No seven post- said you were making an insinuation when you ask synthetic how long he had been posting here."

Yes and if anyone cares to read the thread it's clear I am talking to you (Who questions my every post)
Trying to explain "to you" what a metaphor is and that post had nothing to do with synthetic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No ten post -you said, I just donít see anything working here and then spent the rest of the post bragging about what you were going to do."

HaHaHaHa. Is that what I was doing? Or was I simply trying to give synthetic an idea on how to improve his poetry.  Why did I end that post with "how do you write?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"No thirteen post- after synthetic wrote a long post trying to connect with you , you said two words ~ What sonnet ~"

Yes and you're right here, but I was stunned that he thought it was a sonnet and 6 minutes later I posted
my 14th post to his thread didn't I?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No fourteen post -was almost embarrassing , you just posted one of your poems for the world to read.

OMG! chops you are wrong here. I was responding to synthetic's post that you wrongfully accused me of not responding to.

Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I had a few things in mind going into the writing of this piece: 8 syllable lines; the story I envisioned; and finally my desire to keep it simple. Now the eight syllable lines work wonders for keeping it "simple", because the rhythmic flow of the sonnet comes across much like a nursery rhyme's would. And although love is made to be something quite complicated, I wanted to state that it's the contrary; hence the nursery rhyme feel and my final line:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This information tells me that his choice of a sonnet was wrong for the idea of his poem.  I was showing him another form that (I) thought would work better for his idea.

Why else would I state at the bottom of that post (This is how I would approach your poem.)

As far as posting a poem in someone else's thread...
It's done here all the time. As a matter of fact you seemed to like the idea when someone else does it.

And I thought I had a slanted opinion???

turtle
Member
since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
Harbor


23 posted 02-28-2009 08:54 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

....you know.

Given my current bout with sleep apnea, I probably am being an old grouch.

My apologies.
synthetic
Member
since 06-10-2006
Posts 62
ontario, canada


24 posted 03-01-2009 05:53 AM       View Profile for synthetic   Email synthetic   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for synthetic

did you advise me to read a book Turtle? lol... you're definitely a special character. you were bullied in the past weren't you?!
 
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