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Passions in Poetry

Torpor

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Allogenes
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since 01-16-2008
Posts 35


0 posted 02-08-2009 02:27 PM       View Profile for Allogenes   Email Allogenes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allogenes

    How poignant is this sharp and biting air -
This wintry mix of snow, and sleet, and frost
    That takes my every blithe and youthful care
And transforms it into ambitions rust

    The cold - it gets into our blood. It stops
The heart of enterprise, it freezes lust;
    Ensnares the unaware; it crowns the tops
Of mountains with a finery of dust.

    The hardened bent of time does More - far more -
To youthful passion and its hallowed flame;
    It robs from altars still lit, but the door
Of the encircled temple, pounds in vain:

    We dreamers caught on winter's deathly shore
Have still some hope -- a promise of refrain.
© Copyright 2009 Allogenes - All Rights Reserved
turtle
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since 01-23-2009
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1 posted 02-08-2009 05:41 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Great! Your use of meter has improved considerably. You have put a good deal of effort
into this poem and it shows. There are some minor problems with punctuation and context, but they ARE minor.

I would like to make note of finery. Not because it's wrong, but it stands as an example of how
a reader should read a line. On it's own, the word would read as a dactyl, and the "er/y"
would normally be read as 2 equaly weighted, nonstressed syllables, but because this is a sonnet
in iambic pentameter, the reader should assume the stress is on the "y".

I don't know if it's wrong or not, but why are you indenting the first and third lines of each stanza?
It looks like a typo.

If you want, I can go into greater depth on the punctuation and context,
but you definitly deserve a pat on the back for your efforts.

Gotta go now, feeling a bit lethargic.

turtle      

[This message has been edited by turtle (02-08-2009 08:45 PM).]

Allogenes
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since 01-16-2008
Posts 35


2 posted 02-08-2009 07:59 PM       View Profile for Allogenes   Email Allogenes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allogenes

    Thanks, Turtle.

Actually, most of this poem was written with relative ease - though I am pleased to hear that it appeared otherwise!

The indentions are something of a personal quirk, I suppose -- I know that plenty of formalists make use of them, but there's probably a protocol I'm not aware of. I'll have to look into it and learn the right way to do it.

And yes, feel free to go more in depth. My sketchy poetic punctuation can use all the help it can get.

As always, your critiques are helpful and much appreciated.

   -- Allogenes
turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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3 posted 02-08-2009 10:01 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Okey Dokey,

I have made repairs to the punctuation and context in () and made some suggestions in [].

The last two lines in S3 have several problems. You have an unintended parenthetical set,  a dangler, and
"lit" / "but" is a trochee, with no way around it. I don't think the end of S3L2 works as well as it might
also. For me it throws off the rhyme. Maybe find a way to word it that's closer to "vain" and "refrain"?

I am suggesting you change "shore" to "crust" in the conclusion "refrain" rhymes with "vain" and whatever
you come up with for "flame", so why not "crust" to rhyme with "rust, lust and dust"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How poignant is this sharp and biting air(?)
This wintry mix of snow and sleet and frost.
(What) takes my every blithe and youthful care
And transforms it into ambitions rust(.)

The cold - it gets into (my) blood [and] stops(.)
The heart of enterprise (-) it freezes lust(.)
(Ensnaring) unaware(,) it crowns the tops
Of mountains with a finery of dust.

The hardened (bend) of time does More - [and] more,
To youthful passion [and] [life's] hallowed flame(.)
[It robs from altars still lit, but the door..... .*(This is a problem)
Of the encircled temple, pounds in vain:]

[The] dreamers(,) caught on winter's deathly [crust](,)
Have still some hope -- a promise of refrain.

Hope this helps
turtle

[This message has been edited by turtle (02-10-2009 01:15 AM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 02-09-2009 09:05 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Turtle,

Are you nuts?
Allogenes
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since 01-16-2008
Posts 35


5 posted 02-09-2009 02:03 PM       View Profile for Allogenes   Email Allogenes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allogenes

Hello, Turtle.

Some interesting suggestions, but most of them just don't work well for me. Some of them would drastically change the message of the poem -- The first line is an exclamation, not a question; when I say 'bent' I mean innate disposition... Though I do wholly agree with you about S3l3 - it presents a minor stumbling block to the rhythm.

I do appreciate your time in this. I always enjoy looking at a piece from many different angles.

Brad: Why is Turtle 'nuts'? Are you suggesting that his critique is inadequate, or his revision? You might elaborate.
chopsticks
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since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


6 posted 02-09-2009 02:16 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Hi Allogenes, I like your poem. I would change the title, I’ve never seen the word before. How about something like (The Frozen Chosen ~from the Korean war~)

I can prove I’m not nuts, I have discharge papers from a mental hospital.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


7 posted 02-09-2009 06:43 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

No, not inadequate. I find it difficult to read the first line with a question mark.
Nan
Administrator
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since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


8 posted 02-09-2009 07:14 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

LOL - I have to say that the title sets the mood of the poem.  I personally wouldn't change it.. but then I'm a vocabulary geek - I even titled one of my poems "Dirdum"..

Torpor is good for me...

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


9 posted 02-09-2009 08:57 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

This is not too bad.  My only complaint would be some of the "redundancy" in the poem.  For example, poignant, sharp, and biting in the first line more or less all mean the same thing.   In the second stanza, especially the first it, but the others as well are not needed.  The cold being it is already implied, therefore it is no need to say "it" four times.  Likewise for the repetition of "more" in the third stanza.  It also seems a bit redundant to say "hope" and "promise" in the last line.  They both seem vague enough here that using only one or the other may achieve the same effect.  

turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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10 posted 02-09-2009 09:53 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Interesting. Allogenes, certainly I only intend my critique as a suggestion.

Why do I suggest a question mark at the end of line one?

Hmmm. Better yet, Why would I suggest a question mark at the end of line
one and not at the end of the stanza?

How poignant is this sharp and biting air -

This is a complete sentence, or more accurately a complete thought. Because
the sentence starts with "How" it is a question. If the author is punctuating this poem,
and he is, the correct punctuation for line one is a question mark.

The end of the first line is also a hard rhyme. A hard rhyme in a sonnet at the end of a line
in iambic meter hard stops the line. Being a complete thought hard stops the line
To add a further stop to the end of the line is superfluous.

Allogenes that does not mean that you can't write the line how you want.
If your intent is to write to be read though, and you what to appeal to an audience that
reads and understands poetry, consider either learning punctuation, or maybe not
using it......But that means no dashes too    

Chops, I agree. For me, the title could be better as well.

Turtle  

[This message has been edited by turtle (02-09-2009 10:25 PM).]

Allogenes
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since 01-16-2008
Posts 35


11 posted 02-09-2009 10:13 PM       View Profile for Allogenes   Email Allogenes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allogenes

    Thanks, Chopsticks. I preferred this title because it sums everything up quite nicely. Besides - it's fun to say, no? (Though I must confess my fondness for 'The Frozen Chosen.')

Brad - Ah, I see.

Nan - I'm glad "Torpor" works for you as well.

Essorant - Thanks for your input. You bring up some valid points.

Although 'Sharp' and 'biting' are redundant, I don't think 'poignant' is -- Poignancy describes an emotional stimulus, whereas 'Sharp' and 'biting' (in this context) are physical attributes.

For the last line, I've considered wording it "Have still some life -- assurance of refrain." Though that may be similarly vague.
chopsticks
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since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


12 posted 02-09-2009 10:29 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Torpor, or not torpor: that is the question. Essorant could tell us in a flash, but I believe that is the only word in the poem that has a true Latin root.

I understood every word in the poem except “Torpor” I have never seen the word  “Dirdum” either. Maybe it’s used down south ~ You better go wash  them dirdum feet.~

Allogenes
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since 01-16-2008
Posts 35


13 posted 02-09-2009 10:55 PM       View Profile for Allogenes   Email Allogenes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allogenes

  Yes Turtle, I think the line works best without any punctuation. I'll likely go with that.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


14 posted 02-09-2009 11:06 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Chops

Poignant, mix, transform, ambition, enterprise, crown, mountain, finery, passion, flame, altar, encircle, temple, vain, promise, and refrain, are also words that go back to Latin, most of them indirectly through French.  Torpor is directly from Latin though, without any change of shape or meaning.  It goes along with torpid and torpedo.      

[This message has been edited by Essorant (02-10-2009 02:29 PM).]

turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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15 posted 02-10-2009 12:27 AM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

WOW and I thought it was a cross between tupperware and tapioca.

Yep, better change the title too.
chopsticks
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since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


16 posted 02-10-2009 08:10 AM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Thanks Essorant.  Allogenes,  when a poem has this much discussion it usually is a good poem. This is a very good poem with that one exception.

I think since the author of the poem is not going to use punctuation  it is academic. I think a question mark at the end of the first line is up to the author and it does change the meaning  slightly to me.

To question, or not to question : is that the question ?  

  
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


17 posted 02-10-2009 02:32 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It is a good poem, but it may be exaggerating a bit to say "very" good.
turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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18 posted 02-10-2009 03:31 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Hi essy,

I'm not sure, but I think you're addressing me. I didn't say very good. I said "great!", but I then went on to quantify what I meant.

I'm glad you brought this up, because if you compare this offering to Al's previous post, this one is a marked improvement. Is this a Frost, or a Poe? Does Shakespeare sake in his boots that his sonnets have been surpassed? lol I think not.

But, when I see a marked improvement that shows someone is making an effort to improve their lot, I want to recognize that.

turtle
chopsticks
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since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


19 posted 02-10-2009 03:55 PM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

“ It is a good poem, but it may be exaggerating a bit to say "very" good .”

Turtle, Essorant was talking to me, so get in line.

Essorant does my lame opinion really matter.

Allogenes is not quitting his day job.

[This message has been edited by chopsticks (02-10-2009 09:06 PM).]

turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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20 posted 02-11-2009 02:40 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

Chops, Your opinion positivly matters, especially to people like me that
that want a wide range of opinion.

As far as day jobs..... I'm surprised to here that there still is
such a thing as "day jobs"  

turtle
chopsticks
Senior Member
since 10-02-2007
Posts 870
The US,


21 posted 02-12-2009 09:14 AM       View Profile for chopsticks   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chopsticks

Thanks Turtle, I was just fooling around with Essorant, but I do like the idea  of being the ~ wide ranger ~

Btw, you got any idea what timmybeade’s  poem ~ Two Different Colors ~ is all about  ?

Leave my granny out of this one .
turtle
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since 01-23-2009
Posts 491
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22 posted 02-12-2009 02:42 PM       View Profile for turtle   Email turtle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for turtle

vaguely, it's not cut and dried.
And, if the dog is not black and white, it's probably not about the dog.
 
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