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WHY??
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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WHY?? |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia 
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WHY?? Why was I blessed with a giving heart, and no ability to touch. Why do I feel so much, I want to take the world and hold it close, I want to take away the fears, I want to fill the void of loneliness, in all the eyes I watch. I want to heal the world and kiss away the loss. Why is there no love inside of me. I say don't come to close to me, as I find I can't heal me. I'll give you laughter and happiness acceptance, empathy, I'll ease your pain, a sparkling kaleidoscope of pretty colours. Why do you want a piece of me Why do they want to own me, and fit me in a box. Why do some want to take your smiles and make you cry. Why do the ones who drag you down, need my loving most Why can I find forgiveness and understanding for the angry and the lost. Why can I help you heal, but can't heal me. Why when the sparkling kaleidoscope, stumbles and is weary on life's highway all misty shades of grey. Why do I find you have all gone away and left me alone to play, Why do I feel so lost. Why am I locked in my own inadequacy. Why do I have the ability to learn and feel. Why does my hand stay still, when I'm longing just to touch. Why can't I heal me. Why does no one hear my silent plea, Why is there no hand there for me, Why do I turn away so that I can not see, the eyes of those who love me. Why is my fear so great, my walls so high that I need to protect you all from me. Why am I running scared of feelings, I would break if I gave you misery Why do I feel responsible, for all the pain I see. Why is there no love inside of me, Why do I feel this empty pain inside, where love is meant to be Why can't I heal me, why? |
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americangothic Junior Member
since 2008-11-11
Posts 45 |
a lot of good questions..the type of questions that can only be answered by looking in yourself...good job |
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SEA 
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
 look at it this way, what would you tell someone you loved dearly, if they said these things to you? What advice would you give them? Then? take your advice  |
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Marchmadness Member Rara Avis
since 2007-09-16
Posts 9271So. El Monte, California |
Good advice from SEA. Ida |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
Hi all you wonderful people, Thanks for your feed back,smiles.. its a great day here, the sun is shinning and shinning and shinning.. yeah you get the idea.. its 8am and already soooo hot,grins.. When you have 6 sons(full stop on the end was a daughter,smiles..), you go through many trails before they become a man, I love people and life.. But had my share of ups and downs.. I also work in crime and see the ugly side of life.. I should have put this poem in Critical Analysis, I can't get it, how I want it,smiles.. If one of you know how to move it, that would be great,smiles.. |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
Thanks so much to who ever shifted her,smiles.. |
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SEA
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
Nanners got it |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
Thanks SEA, sent a return to you,smiles.. Thanks Nanners, Although I'm unsure who you are,smiles.. but I really appreciate you shifting her, Hope someone can give some advice on how to make her sound real nice.. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Hi Pantheress , looks like a moderator was having a little fun with this one and I for one like having a little fun . Now to your poem : I think it had way to many questions without at least one answer. However, maybe that is the answer , that life has no answers. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I'd like to comment on this poem, but I'm not entirely sure that I can be helpful. It would be good to hear from you as to who you are writing this for? By which I mean what person, audience or set of readers you are trying to reach or interest? To be totally honest (which I hope you would want me to be) right now the piece would I think appeal maybe to your relatives and friends, and certainly to your therapist  , and probably to your friends here in PiP, and maybe anyone else who knows you well enough to be interested in your personal feelings and insecurities. If that's all you want then it's fine. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Hi! There are two ways (probably more but we'll start with two) to go with this. You said that it doesn't sound like the way you want it. Okay, but we don't know how you want it. The first thing to do then is probably block it out. Why are you asking these questions and not others? On a first read, it seems like many of the questions are repetitive. Is this on purpose? Why or why not? At other points, it seems that some questions answer other questions (I like this part by the way). Do you want to expand on that or smooth it out? Structurally, it's anaphoric. The two most famous examples of this are Ginsberg's "Howl" and pretty much anything by Whitman. For examples on how this structure can go, I'd suggest looking at them. You use 'kaleidoscope' twice. Richard Wilbur has a powerful little poem on just that particular device. There's another place to check out what's being done. The second way to go is to simply ask us what we think. If you're knew to the critiquing thing, that can be very off-putting at first. With this poem, I suspect the most obvious response to the questions in the poem would be "I don't know. Why are you asking me?" With that said, I was reading a poem last night called "20 questions" by -- wait a second -- Maura Stanton. I liked it but it didn't blow my mind. Still, it got me thinking that such a structure could/maybe/possibly yield some interesting things. Again, I don't know. I guess the only thing to remember is that we're all different people and we all like different things. The Stanton poem was in the 2005 Best American Poetry anthology. I liked many poems in there (And some that quite surprised me. Not the stuff I normally go for.), but believe even some of the stuff in that book wouldn't remain unscathed here. Good luck! |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
Thanks so much for all your fantastic input, some great ideas and yes, the audience its written for pulled me up in thought.. I work with victims of crime, I brush them off and stand them up to face another day.. I train my face to never portray the shock I feel, (shoved a branch up there? she's only 12 months old?)with whats been done to them. They open their hearts and bare their souls, so I can help them on their way.. Many people when you reach for them and help in their darkest hours, Think their in love with you and desperatly want you in their world. They think they can't go on unless i'm still lending strength for them to lean on, Its not me, I'm Gods tool, He sent me here for you to use, Your standing strong, be on your way, Your just a job to me, Then I go home and cry, for the disbelief in their eyes, for the babies that have died, for innocent that's been stolen, little people with no defences.. I've actually stopped doing children's cases, which is weak of me, I honestly believe, I bring the sun back to their faces.. But tormented lays my soul.. Brad.. anaphoric? I had to go look up what this meant, female an Irish,chuckles.. Yes maybe- life has no answers.. maybe I need to scrap this poem and start again? I want it to be shorter,sigh.. More direct and powerful,smiles.. Thanks so much for all your time.. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
quote: If powerful is what you're looking for, this is a good place to start. Mind you, I'm not for a moment suggesting such a poem would be easy to write. It wouldn't. But if that's the direction you want to go in . . . . |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: THIS is the poem. Can you see the difference from what you wrote before? |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
moonbeam your wonderful and obviously very talented.. you took my words and wrote an intense, demanding poem, capturing the gist of my thoughts.. I'm so impressed, The concept is totally reversed but speaks the same to me. When Brad said use that line, I couldn't get my head around speaking such a harsh reality in a poem, I suppose we all have our own concepts on what can be placed for all to read and what is so upsetting for some,sigh.. Thanks so much for your beautiful, positive energy and your time.. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
I didn't actually do anything other than arrange your words in lines. I think the power of the writing comes from YOU when you forgot about trying to write "poetically" and simply wrote out in plain language without a lot of adjectives and adverbs, the experiences you went through. This had the effect of adding uniqueness, and uniqueness is always interesting. Try doing it more often! |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
moonbeam you are to kind, Thank you for taking the time and teaching a new path to me, Your right of course poetry is how you see the world.. And I don't wanna push the friendship.. but,smiles.. Could some one explain prose to me? pleassseeeee |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Wikipedia can explain what "prose" means better than I can, click on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose The borders, if any, between poetry and prose are blurred. Some might say, for instance, that line breaks make the difference (Brad), others might suggest the frequencies of patterning (Ron). I don't think you have to worry too much about these distinctions. What matters is that you write in a way that interests and pleases your target audience. If your target audience (i.e. the people you are writing for) are your friends and family, they may not much care about HOW you write, but much more about WHAT you write. By way of example let's take your original poem above. It has a lot of generalities about desires and feelings expressed in it. Now look at SEA's response. Do you see how she isn't responding to the piece as a poem, but simply to the feelings and desires. You might just as well have written a letter to her asking for her advice about how to cope with your problems! Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with that obviously, and maybe it reaches your intended audience, but such writing is unlikely to appeal to a wider readership. People in other words who are looking to read "poetry". Such people (this wider readership) don't know you, probably don't care about you much as a person, or your day to day problems, yet they could still be brought to be interested in your feelings and your problems and your views on life. That's where the HOW (as in HOW you write) becomes important. You may have heard of the popular catch phrase in poetry critique: "SHOW don't TELL" If you are interested in pursuing this discussion further, why don't you tell me what you understand me to mean by that phrase? Plus ask any other questions you want of course. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
M., Yes, I think the line break is the difference but only because I think the moment you see a computer screen or a piece of paper with words placed in "lines" you think, "Ah, it's a poem." And that sets up a way of reading, triggers a number of expectations, that is different from reading prose. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
One doesn't need linebreaks to know it is a poem if it is written with meter and rhyme. Poetry is a manner of music. It is chiefly special attributes that make it musical that make it different and distinct from prose. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
It's not a matter of need to know. It's a matter of what you expect from what you're going to read. If a prose piece is in meter and rhyme, it'll (albeit perhaps only momentarily) confuse the reader. By the way, meter has been tried before in prose pieces and the summary judgment of the power that be have banished it from refined conversation. The line break, if we want to extend the analogy, is a time signature. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Yes Brad, your longer exposition went as follows: "This is something that has come up a few times even on my own stuff. What is the difference between prose and poetry? I argue that it is the line break. Yeah, it's that simple but that simple distinction makes you see a piece of writing in a very different way." and, "What's so simple about the line break? When you read a piece of prose, you don't have that added pause. Prose can have rhythm, it can use every single technique that poetry uses (including rhyme) and as Ron has argued, poets should learn the are to writing fiction as well (okay, we both do). For a number of historical reasons, the two arose into separate and arbitrary categories but nevertheless are, more or less, distinct. When you see a line break, you read something differently from without it. This perception is the key. Samuel Delaney has argued that when you read Science Fiction as opposed to mainstream fiction, you read it differently. Something like "I drove my Beetle home" in science fiction (I prefer the more general term of fabulism) can mean any of a number of things whereas it is fairly limited in mainstream, 'realistic' stuff. Without a context, you start reading a fabulist novel not really knowing what that sentence means until it has been directly or indirectly explained to you. If you know the book is "science fiction", you know you don't know. If it's mainstream, you're pretty sure it's a Volkswagon. It's the same sentence but your perception of it changes. Poetry is the same. When you see that line break, you see the poem as a poem and think in terms of your own biases, your own personal history, of what a poem SHOULD be. If the piece doesn't satisfy those expectations, you question its 'poeticness'. Given the variety of poetry out there, what other explanation could there be? I'm listening." I'm still considering this . |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
There is difference between how traditional versers and freeversers use the line break though. Traditional versers use the linebreak to outline the meter and rhyme, a complementary addition. Freeversers on the other hand need to use it to make up for their lack of meter and rhyme, so that a man that has sight may at least understand that it is meant to be a poem because the line break suggests "poem". They need to compensate for what they don't give to ear by giving them something more for the eye. But many, perhaps even most people, that do not or cannot see freeverse on the page, so dependant it is on the linebreak, won't recognize it as being a poem. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Oh Ess, I soooo disagree with that! |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
M. We agree. Where do we disagree? |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Umm, let's see: gin, chopsticks and maybe Elizabeth Bishop (although, belatedly, I think you might have been right, so that probably doesn't count). It's kinda worrying really. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Brad, I’m not sure about gin and Elizabeth Bishop, but how could Moonbeam disagree with your method of conveying food from your bowl to your mouth ? I’m going to check this out with Miss Manners. Moonbeam, don't worry be happy. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
This is a great thread. Too good to dissolve into a form vs. freeverse argument. Pantheress? I love that you write from the heart. And moonbeam? I love what you did with that too. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
I agree with Blaze, let’s not let this poem dissolve into who, what , why, when, and where ( did I get that in the right order). I don’t think it’s important to know what group you wrote it for. Let’s say it was written for ~ To whom it may concern~ like most poetry is. |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
"SHOW don't TELL" Is painting a picture with words.. taking the reader to the event, not retelling??.. Thanks for the link Moonbean, although I had read it before and other pieces on prose, although when I went to the prose section here, there is a very wide variation, I put a piece in behind closed doors/ mature content because it's smut, but I feel it paints a picture, has rhyme but is not poetry, I loved this discussion is great reading your different ideas, thank you all so much for your time and effort.. your all really great people here, I love it,smiles.. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Karen I'd love to know what exactly you mean by that. If you have time of course. M |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
quote: Yes you are quite right. But, "show don't tell" is often used in the context of a poet trying to convey emotions or feelings. It can seem a bit strange at first to think that you can convey inner emotion or thought by referencing it to a specific event, or place, or thing for instance. But done well (with metaphor and simile), the technique can not only add unexpected dimensions to your portrayals, but also it can allow your readers to overlay their own experiences and draw from the writing even more than you perhaps anticipated. Compare these two openings which YOU wrote. First this: "Why was I blessed with a giving heart, and no ability to touch. Why do I feel so much," Then this: "I work with victims of crime, I brush them off and stand them up to face another day. I train my face to never portray the shock I feel," The first is quite bland - it could apply to anyone, anywhere at anytime, and to be brutally honest, to my ear the opening line even sounds a bit smug, I know you didn't intend it that way, but for an opening, before you've set the tone of the poem, it's very risky. Additionally each line contains language we've all heard over and over. When you use the phrases "giving heart" or "feel so much" they will simply slip past the consciousness of most readers without creating even a flicker, except perhaps of annoyance . They are dead phrases, dead from overuse, worn out, deceased, ex-phrases, history, ashes in the ears of your audience.The second poem you wrote is altogether different. It starts out with a nice crisp clear statement, a strong verb "work" and two attention grabbing nouns. The reader is immediately interested in what is coming next. Ok, the next sentence employs a metaphor I've heard before, but at least it's energetic and visual. The double use of "face" is an unexpected and clever bonus - it is what I was talking about earlier, a spin-off; do you see that? The verb usage of face followed by the noun usage creates a link which then leads your readers' minds into considering the effect on the speaker's state of mind (her face) of having to go through the trauma of empowering these hurt people to get through (to face) another day. The faces are for an instant as the reader reads that line, unified; with instant significance. So you see in one quick image: that of the speaker literally brushing down and lifting the victims - so much is conveyed about the strain on the speaker herself and her own state of mind. How much better is that than simply rolling out the same old tired question: "Why do I feel so much" - yawn - you might as well be writing to your therapist! You could go further too. Specificity is often the spice of poetry. Look at this recent poem in CA. /pip/Forum28/HTML/002384.html It's titled "Sense" with very good reason! Ok, it may not be the easiest poem to get to grips with from a meaning point of view, but look at the way that the poet uses imagery and description. The poem is awash with "things" that you as the reader can sense. In the very first line your nostrils are assaulted with the mingling of lemon or orange or lime and tobacco. The next line piles on top of that the scent of wet hair, and the sight too of that dark hair against the white skin. And now we have texture too, the softness of lotion and more scents. If you go on reading you'll see that the whole poem simply vibrates with sensual experiences, suffusing every one of our receptors: sight, smell, taste, hearing, touch. It's not too much of an exaggeration to say that the piece is sensuous. This is in fact a pretty good yardstick to use when you are trying to write. Ask yourself as you write each line: Is there anything in this line that I can touch, see, smell, taste or hear. If there is no sensory input from the line at all, and this repeats over several lines, then you may well be erring too much on the side of the abstract. Think about using less abstract nouns and more concrete nouns. Think specific. Your poems will grow in power and interest. Finally we've looked at your opening lines in this poem written first as: "Why was I blessed with a giving heart, and no ability to touch. Why do I feel so much," then as: "I work with victims of crime, I brush them off and stand them up to face another day. I train my face to never portray the shock I feel," Can we progress further? One possible direction might be to zoom into yet more detail. For example: "Clara walks, raped, from the court, snuggles against my teflon coat, her ear bell-shaped against the tongue of my heart. A pulse ticks at my temple" I hope you see what I tried to do here. Think of yourself as a story teller who makes up stories in order to better portray the truth. M |
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Pantheress Member
since 2008-11-02
Posts 215Queensland, Australia |
Hi all, Moonbean, yes Brad's poem is very descriptive, When I think poetry, its sorts like country music, wife left with best mate, husband kicked dog and it died, songs of the heart, humor, beauty.. When does it become short stories, does the rhyme keep it in the poetry category? Some of the phrases you replied to Brad with are totally foreign to me, I'll have to go away and study for a bit, cause now I'm totally lost, female and Irish.. what more can I say,chuckles.. Thanks everyone for their great input, I find it very constructive and interesting.. and your right moonbean- "They are dead phrases, dead from overuse, worn out, deceased, ex-phrases, history, ashes in the ears of your audience". On ward and up ward,smiles.. |
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moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Heh. Join the club, some of the phrases I used to reply to Brad confused ME. I just had to try to sound important. Seriously, don't worry about the complicated bits; keep it simple, just concentrate on trying to use imagery, more concrete nouns, less abstract nouns and less adjectives and adverbs. That would be a great start. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Oh. (I thought I was done.) "write from the heart"? She utilized her emotion as the impetus. The frustration you felt, Pantheress, touched the frustration in me. But I did recognize it as a rough draft. Moonbeam? I simply mean that I like poetry that has a sense of passion at its core. I've read far too many that are all flourishes and no meat. (and yes, I am guilty, guilty, guilty... <--note the emboldened ellipses) *chuckle* Btw? Someone once did for me what you did for her. It changed the way I wrote. Um, sometimes.  |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Someone once did for me what you did for her.” Blaze, I do agree, say it until it hurts. Moonbeam once did it for me. I write much better now. I will continue to write. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Hi Pantheress: Moonbeam pointed out that you have the essence of the poet within you, it just might be worthwhile to consider why your poem is not much of a poem, but you're prose is poetry indeed. Some aspects have been discussed, and Essorant has alluded to a central one. A poem is music in words. I'll take it a little further to suggest that a poem is first and foremost a spoken performance piece. It is not words on a page to be read internally and mused over. It is something that has to be read out loud. It often happens that only the poet, reading a piece aloud, can hear the true or intended music. It also happens that some poets can't read out loud worth a damn to someone else, but they get better with practice. When you can convey your reading, your music, to a reader, you've accomplished something. When you compare your reading of your poem to Moonbeam's restructuring of your prose, which SOUNDS better? It doesn't matter in the long run, one writes what one writes, but it is useful to write to be read aloud. Best, Jimbeaux |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
OK: here is another way to go about the poem itself, using only your words. Note the changes in punctuation and deletions. They are about music and compression, a whole ‘nother discussion. Why was I blessed with a giving heart and no ability to touch? Why do I feel so much? I want to take the world and hold it close, heal the world and kiss away the loss. Why is there no love inside of me? I say don't come to close to me! Why do you want a piece of me? Why do they want to own me, fit me in a box? Why can I find forgiveness and understanding for the angry and the lost? Why can I help you heal, but can't heal me? Why am I locked in my own inadequacy? Why does my hand stay still, when I'm longing just to touch? Why am I running scared of feelings? Why is there no love inside of me, Where love is meant to be? This may be a way of coming closer, and to my ear it reads better, but there is still a logic problem: You do indeed have love inside of you. How can you reconcile this within the context of the poem? Best, Jimbeaux |
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