»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #2
»
The Wrong Move (Mindelay, part 5)
| Critical Analysis #2 |
|
The Wrong Move (Mindelay, part 5) |
|
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
"Ideas of the Cavern are the Ideas of every Man in particular; we every one of us have our own peculiar Den, which refracts and corrupts the Light of Nature, because of the differences of Impressions as they happen in a Mind prejudiced or prepossessed." ― Francis Bacon Nothing. I am shaped like a foetus, encased in a metaphysical shell, surrounded by lines protruding symmetrically around a globe. I hear the call of my name in another language, a whisper from a Japanese woman, her breath, a wind that triggers a world-wide monochromatic fireworks display, a flash and then another in logarithmic progression only to be replaced by umbrella plumes and toadstool afterimages ― slow-motion video footage. It is impossible for me to see the end of the world again. I am on the inside, I am the center of the death cycle at Mindelay. At the end, of each delicate line is a memory, a regret, a guilting bolt that plagues all our lives the moment we begin to live. It is the end of low murmurs, the static that surfaces between the time when one is awake and one is asleep. But something goes wrong. My memories are not extirpated like the papists or the Jews from England. They are shot over the underground plane like lava bombs, some soar over and through the caves beyond my sight but they are not dead, they lie there waiting To attack when one is not looking Or remembering. I do not lose them, they are mine, sparse as they are: Released from the spawning, I will gather them, return them use them, develop them, adjust them, alter them, modify them to polish time, mold them to my purpose. But something goes wrong. My wife: "Nothing. You are my husband and these are my children And after that, nothing, nothing at all." And finally this and only this: "Mommy?" "Nothing. You are my husband and these are my children And after that, nothing, nothing at all." "Daddy, where is mommy?" And this marks the end of adolescence and the beginning of prayer. |
||
| © Copyright 2008 Brad - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
M1 /pip/Forum28/HTML/001703.html M2 /pip/Forum28/HTML/001724.html M3 /pip/Forum28/HTML/001737.html M4 /pip/Forum28/HTML/001750.html |
||
|
TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear Sir Brad, why not give a brief introduction to this series? I'll print out to read all of them and make my comments if I can "get them"  have briefly read all of them. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Brad, I must thank TomMark for digging out the four previous poems in this cycle so we could have a look at them at the same time as we look at this one. Seeing the five together makes a difference. Seeing these poems together gives me the sense that they are an homage to the Eliot of "The Wasteland." It feels as though their method is collage-like and the tempo is very much like the movement in that poem. There's a lot of latinity, a lot of import of foreign words and phrases, and a sort of scholarly feel over the whole movement of the thing. I think a lot of problems here come from your consistent use of the past rather than the present tense. This distances the events in the poem from the reader. The events themselves are not very clear, nor are they clearly described, in contrast to Eliot's method in The Wasteland, where he tries to give us some moments of clarity to help us stay oriented in his extremely chaotic landscape. You really need somebody to sit down with you and go through the manuscript with a blue-pencil and take out everything that that isn't clear or that doesn't help build your themes. You'd still have a poem of some length and probably a better notion of where the poem wanted to go. I have the sense right now that you're trying to work on some sort of intellectual plan, or that you're trying to reason your way through it. As a first step, I'd try to put everything into present tense, and see what fell out from making that adjustment. Then I'd try to eliminate as many of the conjunctions as I could get away with. Turn those run on sentences into sentences of varied lengths, short, short, then long. But make a point of doing that consciously. Getting some control over sentence length as an independent variable in the writing, and making a point of moving that variable around a couple of times will make the poem seem more flexible and revisable. It'll help you see more options for working with it than you're likely to see now. That's what we want, I think. Not to tell you what to write, or how to write it; you're a sophisticated guy, you can do most of that yourself. But moving these variables around that seem at this point in the process feel like they're carved in stone—that gives a poet the sense of the true malleability of his medium, and what he or she can do with it. You're experimenting with some great stuff. The words and the abstraction level's a bit high for my taste, but what's important is that you're getting what you need out of it. That seems to be a feel for longer verse, a feel for various voice options, a feel for didactic verse and a solid sense of stance. These poems seem to be doing that for you, and I can't argue with that. Keep it coming, Brad. I'm happy to see you working with this stuff. I'd still like to see some of the stuff I was so fond of last month revised a bit, but I've always been selfish that way. Happily, BobK. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Thanks TM. I don't know what kind of introduction your looking for. Bob's right in that this is a homage to 'The Wasteland' and/or certain aspects of 'The Cantos'. The main difference is that I'm using a more science fiction/mythical narrative line and have increased the use of pop culture references. My hope was that would not be seen as comical. I've been working on this a long time. I suspect that it will never be finished in any real sense. I see many problems (some have been pointed out by Bob), but the goal is to use the collage technique, not as a critique of society or anything like that, but as a way of showing how culture influences are wants and needs, our personalities if you will, and makes us who we are. If you have any questions concerning specific lines or whatnot, please let me know, I'll be happy to share what I can remember. |
||
|
Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear Brad, I was serious about the revision suggestions. I do think you have something here and have simply gotten trapped by a prior plan. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Well, I promised myself that I wasn't going to make any major changes until I got to this part. The outline has change any number of times. Almost always getting longer in the process. I appreciate the time, Bob, I really do. I also agree with your point about sentence structure (to some extent). I'm not completely comfortable with the idea of the tense change. For me, the present tense either fills with a unwieldly present participle forms or turns the piece into a kind of ethereal/out of body experiment. With that said, I will think about it. Still, there are other things I want to happen here that need to become more pronounced here: primarily the idea that memory is added and condemns even as one tries to purge it. I hope that's not too obscure for you. |
||
|
poddarku Senior Member
since 2008-01-15
Posts 589india |
this is a sublime piece of writing. i always think good writing can not attract many words in thier analysis |
||
|
RCat Member
since 2008-02-16
Posts 70 |
I very much agree with what Bob K said about this piece. While reading this I found myself in a constant state of trying to figure something out rather than be immersed in an actual experience. And to me this is the preemptive point of a good poem --- to convey and promote an experience --- and the more emotive the better to me. There’s also a lot of abstraction and non-specific language (i.e., “in a metaphysical shell, surrounded by lines protruding symmetrically around a globe”) that leaves one with the feel of meandering through a mist and coming out into a fog. I’ve read this over several times and I still have no clue what it’s about --- but then again I tend to have the attention span of miniature marsupial for long poems. IMO rework this to the bone and let it express a simple central point and perhaps build from there. Also, the opening needs a lot more interest and compulsion than you’ve expressed here. I look forward to reading a revision. Thanks. |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Thanks for reading. The confusion you feel is part of the whole thing of course. There will be revisions (many, many, many), but I suspect you won't like them anymore than this piece. I could be wrong, I'm just following what you said. |
||
|
RCat Member
since 2008-02-16
Posts 70 |
OK, here’s more focus on my part cutting into this. Nothing. I am shaped like a foetus, encased in a metaphysical shell, surrounded by lines protruding symmetrically around a globe. At this point I’m getting the sense of unborn potentials, or an “egg” as in the Hindu cosmic sense. IMO you need more description than “metaphysical” because I believe this is indeed what you’re attempting to express --- a metaphysical experience. “Surrounded by lines protruding symmetrically” is a description of “something,” what exactly are you describing? I’d like to see that image. I hear the call of my name in another language, a whisper from a Japanese woman, (I like these lines a lot, a nice twist) her breath, a wind that triggers a world-wide (this seems cliché to me, something like “her words strike flint igniting a monochromatic fireworks display”). monochromatic fireworks display, a flash and then another in logarithmic progression (can you express “logarithmic progression” [more bombs going off] in a vivid metaphor?) only to be replaced by umbrella plumes and toadstool afterimages ― slow-motion video footage. (It seems you’re talking mushroom cloud and the typical strobe of images associated with the event. There are some good ideas here but the image doesn’t develop fully IMO the way you have it expressed) At this point I’m getting a post nuclear holocaust image linked to a post death experience or pre-life experience (whichever one chooses). Apocalyptic overtones and such seem to be in the air. It is impossible for me to see the end of the world again. I am on the inside, I am the center of the death cycle at Mindelay. At the end, of each delicate line is a memory, a regret, a guilting bolt that plagues all our lives the moment we begin to live. It is the end of low murmurs, the static that surfaces between the time when one is awake and one is asleep. “Mindelay” escapes me other than a compound word as in mind-delay. I guess “guilting” is OK but I’d rephrase as “a bolt of guilt defines our lives…” Either way this seems rooted in somewhat typical Christian dissertation and I’m not sure that serves so well here. Life is reluctance per se, and then… But something goes wrong. My memories are not extirpated like the papists or the Jews (extirpated?) from England. They are shot over the underground plane like lava bombs, some soar over and through the caves beyond my sight but they are not dead, they lie there waiting To attack when one is not looking Or remembering. This sounds like an entire poem on its own to me (as far as flushing out what this covers). All in all here I like the haunting modality of memories and their explosive implications. One big question though, when did the Jews and Catholics get exterminated from England? I do not lose them, they are mine, sparse as they are: (your memories?) Released from the spawning, I will gather them, return them use them, develop them, adjust them, alter them, modify them to polish time, mold them to my purpose. In other words crafting them in the image you desire --- as the creative power of your own life and destiny… But something goes wrong. My wife: "Nothing. You are my husband and these are my children And after that, nothing, nothing at all." The language here leaves a lot of white space. I’m left wondering if it’s responsibility and/or duty or simply temporal drag And finally this and only this: "Mommy?" "Nothing. You are my husband and these are my children And after that, nothing, nothing at all." "Daddy, where is mommy?" Obvious reflections back to childhood but again so much white space to interpret through --- makes my mind work verses being entertained. And this marks the end of adolescence and the beginning of prayer. I like the ending a lot… Hope this helps. I do like the general landscape of what you’re trying to do here. Seems to me it’s a BIG poem as is and may need to be parsed into sections. I believe you need more descriptive and vivid language to burn through the abstraction and give the reader something to really hold onto. [This message has been edited by RCat (02-21-2008 12:11 PM).] |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Wow, you've put some work into it. quote: To be honest, I think you're right here. I haven't been able to get the description right yet. The trick is to keep it concise and make sure the reader has a clear picture of what I'm talking about. Mindelay is the Korean word for dandelion and the name of a tropical storm. quote: Once you see "Mindelay" the word and "Dandelion" (Part 4 of Mindelay), this should make more sense. I wasn't being random here. quote: Fair enough. I'm not sure what you mean by cliche here, but if you mean that the line falls flat, I can see that. It's a build-up line to the next one. You can probably say that all lines must carry weight, but some should be weightier than others. A cliche is a dead metaphor: "They are like two peas in a pod". That is, a metaphor that no longer works like a metaphor, it no longer triggers the comparison. Interestingly, I've seen the word used your way enough to wonder if it is simply becoming another way of saying, "I've read it before". If so, I'm just being nitpicky. quote: Perhaps. I was thinking more along the lines of a computer program. You know, they show the map on the screen and then they show the 'red tide' moving slowly at first and then gradually taking over the whole map. In this case, they might be seen as little stars on a map. This is a common trick in film. I have my doubts that this parts adds much at all to the poem as a whole. I was having fun. quote: Yes. But the weakness of the poem (My fault, believe me, not yours) is that the speaker is also in on the sheer overplayedness of the whole thing. Now, this was supposed to be clear by the next part: quote: I mean this literally. quote: Hmmm, I'm not sure how to respond to this. On the one hand, Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on guilt. On the other, my point was that guilt is part of what we are. To get rid of it is to get rid of ourselves. Christianity's goal seems to be the 'extirpation' of guilt. quote: This comes from something Milton said concerning free speech and Catholicism and Miltonic propaganda associated with WWII. Yes, extirpate can mean exterminate, but it also means to pull out by the roots or surgically remove and I liked the ambiguity here. At the same time, there was a lot of extirpating going on between the Catholics and the Protestants during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. "Bloody Mary" wasn't called bloody for nothing. The Jews were officially expelled from England in 1290. quote: Yep, or to be precise, the speaker's memories, the 'I' of the poem. quote: I gotta redo this part! It makes me snicker. How the hell are other people reacting if it makes me snicker? quote: These lines owe a lot to the previous poems. quote: Uh, no. Or if yes, then I have more work to do. Again, this relies on the previous poems for background. At this point, memory has been purged but, at the same time, retained in a new way. The issue here is that that process in turn brought about a new consequence. Namely, the wife has lost her memory. quote: I'm glad you liked it. I haven't written it but guess what the sixth part is going to be called? quote: It already has five. You want me to cut it up even more? quote: I agree. |
||
|
RCat Member
since 2008-02-16
Posts 70 |
It already has five. You want me to cut it up even more? Wholly Shiva --- it's an Epic! Most really big poems tend to become too demanding for my tree shrew attention span! I’d prefer appetizer sized vignettes that connect into each other by not directly --- thus each “poem” (perhaps limited to 12 lines or so) is a slide which can stand fully on its on its own as well as a sequential picture in the greater movie. Just a thought… |
||
|
Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
12 lines? Hell, you don't even read sonnets? But you have a point, reading on the computer is not conducive to longer works. Where's the comfortable chair, the fireplace, the cognac? (For me, it's cabernet.) |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
