navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » Retreat
Critical Analysis #2
Post A Reply Post New Topic Retreat Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
penguin5
Junior Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 21
Washington

0 posted 2007-12-26 06:09 PM


All that exists, is my mind.
These hapless arms these boney legs
And this swollen face are not me!
I am a creature, of the night.

Smoke it snort it
Shoot it
My body does not contain me
And I reach beyond,
And see through its veil

Those who know me;
Only know themselves
For they are me.
And I, them.  

We are the children of the night.
And Today we are emancipated.

…and my face afire
and my bones hurt
and my face wet
and my friend, my-self is gone.

I have gone nowhere.
I have not left this room.
All I have seen were just chemicals
Showing me what really wasn’t there.
I scream but nobody wants to hear.
All my friends are screaming too.
         I must escape this end.
       of a circle built on fear..
     You can escape through your mind..,
   For in this world..,,
All that exists, is my mind.

[This message has been edited by Brad (12-26-2007 07:47 PM).]

© Copyright 2007 penguin5 - All Rights Reserved
Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
1 posted 2007-12-26 06:51 PM



I'll try to get back to this later

[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-26-2007 07:49 PM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
2 posted 2007-12-26 07:51 PM


Grinch,

I liked what you said there. I wish you hadn't edited it.

Oh well.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
3 posted 2007-12-26 07:57 PM


Sorry Brad but it seemed a little superfluous once you’d fixed it and I didn’t want to make Mr(s) P feel unwelcome.

  

penguin5
Junior Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 21
Washington
4 posted 2007-12-26 08:11 PM


darn, i missed it before you deleted it.  Dont worry, I have thick skin so slam away plz
Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
5 posted 2007-12-26 08:31 PM


All that exists, is my mind.
These hapless arms these boney legs
And this swollen face are not me!
I am a creature, of the night.

I’d reassess your punctuation in the whole poem, L1 doesn’t seem to need the comma in the middle and the period at the end of the line could be a comma. Better still get rid of it altogether until you get closer to a final draft it’s easier to edit that way.

Liked the hapless arms and bony legs but I’d consider sallow instead of swollen, I think it’s closer to the readers image or stereotype of a user.

I’m a creature of the night

This sounded very Van Helsingesque, I know it fit’s the stereotype but why not use that to your advantage without risking the cliché. You could invoke the image of the first line and bring in conscious thought and also toy with indecisiveness:

I am a creature of the might

Ok I admit that line isn’t going to win any prizes in a grammar contest but hopefully you get my drift.

As you're blessed with thick skin P my original comment went something like this:

------------------------------------

The forum guidelines contain a piece of advice that seems apt:

quote:
In most instances, we find the use of profanity is little more than a sign of laziness. Writers should be able to convey an idea without resorting to an offensive vocabulary, and those who don't usually just aren't trying very hard.


I’d consider editing L6, it doesn’t add anything to the poem in any case.
------------------------------------

I’ll try to get back at some point tomorrow, perhaps we can discuss the original L6 and why I think it didn’t add anything.


Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
6 posted 2007-12-27 07:03 AM


By now anyone reading this thread has probably guessed that Penguin5 included a profanity in the original version of his\her poem. There are two reasons in my mind why this isn’t a good idea, the first is that it’s against the rules of the forum, the second, and probably more relevant reason in the  CA forum, is that profanity very very rarely works in poetry.

I can remember only one poem I’ve ever read which successfully used a profanity, yet I’ve forgotten thousands of unsuccessful attempts. Given those odds I think it‘s fairly obvious that using profanity has more chance of ruining a poem than improving it.

I’ve been thinking long and hard why the one I do remember actually works and I’ve come to the conclusion that it works for the exact opposite reason that most people offer as an excuse  for including profanity:

It isn’t used to maintain or reflect the expected language of the real world, it works because it is the exact opposite of what was expected.

For anyone interested the poem I remember is This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin, if you picture Larkin as a favourite grandfather figure offering advice to his grandson I think you'll get my drift.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-27-2007 10:18 AM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
7 posted 2007-12-27 05:49 PM


Yeah, I'd fix the punctuation problems, but the biggest problem I see here is that you're still talking around your subject matter. You're still telling us your reaction to an event that you aren't telling us about.

I do kind of like the 'your/my' stuff at the end, but I'm not sure that was intentional and it might have to go if you give us bones with a little more meat.

On a larger level, I'm not sure the solipsism  you posit here is consistent with your words. If that's the tension you want to bring out, I'd suggest clarifying that a bit more.

penguin5
Junior Member
since 2006-05-16
Posts 21
Washington
8 posted 2007-12-27 10:06 PM


Thank you for all the feedback, and sorry for posting something with hardly any editing.  Alittle backround for this poem to anyone interested.

I wrote this poem to try to describe the reoccuring spirl of excuses and rational i gave for continuing drug addiction.  At the time I wrote this poem, i was clean for only one week, now im going on more than 7 months.  A couple things that may have been misinterpreted.  The "we are the children of the night" was ment to sound cheesy.  It was total stupid and corny that me and my socalled friends ran around at night trying to be like movie stars.  Also i spoke with lots of profanity at that time, something i have also quit.  

This poem got me out of my cycle of drug addiction, by showing all of it.  I continued on the path of addiction because i could not see the end, but this poem let me see it all and allowed me to change my ways.  Once again, keep swinging plz, thick skin here

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
9 posted 2007-12-28 07:01 PM


That the poem has helped you is certainly strong grounds for no crit at all. But what you want to do here, if you want to convey that to others, is a very tall task if you ask me.

The simple fact is most people, including myself, aren't going read it that way.

Advice: start writing multiple drafts and introduce multiple characters. Yes, it'll make the poem more complex, but you're dealing with a complex theme.

Yejun
Junior Member
since 2007-11-21
Posts 49

10 posted 2008-01-04 06:08 PM


Isn't there more to talk about here?


jbouder
Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash
11 posted 2008-01-05 10:49 AM


P-

I think you're off to a good start here (both in life and with the poem).  Regarding the poem ...

quote:
All that exists, is my mind.
These hapless arms these boney legs
And this swollen face are not me!
I am a creature, of the night.


I might suggest something like this:

All that exists is my mind.
Hapless arms, boney legs, swollen face -
These are not me!
"I am a creature of the night."


A few points ... I've removed "these ... these ... and this" to draw attention to the words that convey images.  The others distract me, particularly in light of what I perceive as you intent.  Also, after reading your explanation of the "creature of the night" line, I think you should keep it.  Setting it apart in quotes, however, might help the reader see that you are reflecting on words spoken (as corny as they might sound).  Sounds like you want the reader to know this is cliche.  Perhaps calling attention to it with simple quotation marks will help the reader see that the cliche is important to the reading of the poem.

quote:
Smoke it snort it
Shoot it
My body does not contain me
And I reach beyond,
And see through its veil


I think these lines could use some reworking.  Maybe something like:

Smoke, snort, shoot my way beyond the veil.
My body does not contain me


Again, I think perception tends to be more concise than your lines, and you seem to want to convey perception through your lines.  In order for the reader to relate, I'd suggest trimming your lines to more closely mirror perception.  Are you following?

quote:
Those who know me;
Only know themselves
For they are me.
And I, them.


I think there is probably a better way to describe loss of self.  You go from giving us images to presenting a sort of testimony.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'm left feeling a little short changed.  Up to this point, you've given me a peak in the window, but now you seem to have pulled the blinds, merely offering to describe for me what I now can't see.

quote:
We are the children of the night.
And Today we are emancipated.


Again, I'd suggest setting these apart in quotes.  I read the line as a sort of flashback of thought.  I think the quotes will help convey that.

quote:
…and my face afire
and my bones hurt
and my face wet
and my friend, my-self is gone.

I have gone nowhere.


There is some strong stuff here.  Again, I'd suggest the "less is more" approach.  You can drop most of the "and" and "my words" ... how about:

My face afire, bones hurt, face wet,
my friends, my-self are gone.

I have gone nowhere.


The "I have gone nowhere" line reads like a pivotal moment of realization.  I like it.

quote:
I have not left this room.
All I have seen were just chemicals
Showing me what really wasn’t there.


I like this too ... the apprehension of contradiction comes across well.  I think presenting it more conversationally (i.e., less formally), would actually strengthen this poem.  Consider:

I haven't left this room.
All I've seen were just chemicals
showing me what really wasn't there.


In this case, to my ear anyway, adding the contractions adds to the sincerity of the piece (something I think you are striving to convey).

quote:
I scream but nobody wants to hear.
All my friends are screaming too.
         I must escape this end.
       of a circle built on fear..
     You can escape through your mind..,
   For in this world..,,
All that exists, is my mind.


This seems to be an overly lucid description of the experience.  I might suggest building to this.  This is admittedly outside of my experience, so feel free to correct any flawed assumptions.  I've always thought addiction involved cravings ranging from just beneath the surface (a sort of gnawing) to obsessive.  I've also assumed that the cravings either grew in intensity the longer the one was without the drug.

Assuming those assumptions are near the mark, I'd suggest exploring the withdrawal process from the decision to quit through breakthrough point.

I also get the impression that the poem is unfinished.  You have a very interesting start here.  I'd suggest you build on the moment the speaker realizes he/she has gone nowhere and bring us with the speaker through the struggle to reclaim the speaker's self.

Thanks for posting.  It is a very interesting read.

Jim

Post A Reply Post New Topic ⇧ top of page ⇧ Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format.
navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » Retreat

Passions in Poetry | pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums | 100 Best Poems

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary