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in seasons of the rain
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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in seasons of the rain |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738
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Wait for me-- encouragement--I will write a symphony; and angels will dive perilous to hear my shy note quivering trembling the last note left hanging on the treble cleft dangling the precipice of how far I have to fall. Cheer me on, as I gulp pints, I will prove to you good sport. I'll spurt the foam through my own nose and slam it, all victorious cross-eyed, bottoming the top with all the brough-ha-ha--heh-ha dizzy in the jubilance of the moment of the thrall. And if I see you look away? A hint of disapproval may prompt me to don my white gloves and scold myself in want of love-- I'll be anything at all just tell me what is it you want... I'll pick up a dauber's brush and pluck at my own eyelashes just to get a movement right, delicate in crevices as a shadow argues line as if it were the end of time waiting on a sundial, in seasons of the rain. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Blaze, this is very good. The only thing I see wrong, it had one word to many, that was the word OWN in the second stanza. A bough ha ha is an uproar at a public place like a fair grounds or such. A bough ha ha heh ha is a more serious uproar. Btw, I once saw Blaze Star dance and she was great , but I don't think she wrote poetry. |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear SB, I love this one. I may not get all of them but I could sense that the emotion here is more light hearted than other of yours. And this poem gave me more than John Ashbery's "My Philosophy of Life". Truly. I'll read more times and write more. I have to go out. Tom |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
This is a good example why some critiques are so hard and why I cherry pick the easier ones to comment on. I’ve written 5 (count them) replies to this poem, I’ve cut and pasted the poem into Word, counted the syllables, looked at the meter and edited it to suggest improvements. Yet in all 5 attempts I’ve deleted my reply. My problem is that I think you did something here that was very deliberate and carefully constructed. However I could be wrong, it could just be that three verses of this remind me so much of how I structure my poems that I might simply be seeing something that looks planned in something that is totally natural. So before I reply I need to know if I’m barking up the right tree - are verses 1,2 and 4 written around the same syllabic rhythm and if so why does verse 3 deviate? Help an old man out here Karen, my delete key is getting paranoid! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Hey chops! Thanks for stopping in to check this out. Okay, I've read though it a couple of times, and it reads okay the way I read it--but I can see how it could be awkward if read at a slower pace. Usually I chop up my longer sentences to try to control how the reader reads, but I thought I'd give longer lines a try. (And no, guys, (and gals) this time I didn't squish my short lines together. I actually wrote 'em this length. I appreciate your time though, chops. (I had a friend we called "chops" too--we lost her to drugs last year, so forgive me if I type more familiar to you than we are--but you remind me of her not just by name, but by attitude. And hey, she's dearly missed--so I meant that as "friendly".) *smiles and curtsy* TM--yes lovie, this is one of my more straightforward writings. And thanks so much for taking a peek and thanks as well for always being so sweet to me. *hugs* Grinch--I dunno what to say. You gave me all that great advice and I realize now I certainly could have applied it and given ya'll the form that you all want from me, but I just...can't. I had a bad case of writer's block just from trying to do that stuff, and it wasn't until I decided to shrug it off that I could start writing again. So wince...I hate to disappoint you, but I didn't count any syllables. That doesn't mean though, that I didn't prepare. If there's a method to my madness, I just think it to death first. So I didn't have a firm idea of an outline or form when I started, but I do have a proclivity to stray from whatever patterning I produce in the middle. Before my coffee, I was thinking that I wasn't sure why I write like that, but I think I have a clue. My first glimpse of poetry was song lyrics. Bob Dylan was my favorite poet. I had no idea he was a musician as well. I read his lyrics from my brother's guitar books--you know the sort--they print the lyrics before they show the musical score. And if you look at most of my poetry, it's written that way. Neat stanza, Neat stanza, Neat stanza (sometimes just two, sometimes three, I ain't that anal about it) and then a bridge, and neat stanza. Now that doesn't describe every poem I've written, but since you made me look and think about it, I'd have to say that's would be why I do that. It's not a conscious thing. Now, while I enjoy perfectly metered, neat rhymes from others, my own stuff has to have something that sticks out. I did the same thing with my charcoals and pastel works too--there's a term for it, but I forget what it is, but I have to have a "flourish" (nice word for imperfection, eh?) in my mental composition. So no, I didn't count syllables. I did give some thought to stresses this time though, and I know, I know, how can I do that without a syllable count? I um, "listen". (That means sometimes I am sitting here talking to myself as I type, too. Sometimes I sing the words.) In short, I'm more of a lyricist than a poet. (Bernie Taupin is my hero.) So get your finger off the delete button and enjoy. Tear it up.  Don't worry about "hurting my feelings". Like I've said before, when I post here, I know where I am. I'm just not too sure where I've been.  Thanks for taking the time, and you have already helped me by giving me the memory jog about the music books. And I just may try mixing it up, and deliberately screw up my ending next time--except--whining now--I like an impactful ending, and you tend to get that with a neat verse easier than just that "drifting" thing I do in the middle.It's just something I like. ("Device" sounds like I have a template, and I write too loosely structured to call it that.) It's sort of like hypnosis. rhythm-rhythm-rhythm-drift-snap my fingers--rhythm. I really don't plan--I "ideate". But if it doesn't work for you, I'm more than happy to hear about it. Thanks for your time. I know how thoughtful you are, so I'm sorry I was late getting here too. I'll shaddup now. Maybe. *lovin' hugs*  |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
So I meant that as friendly “ hey, friendly is good.. “ I'll spurt the foam through my own nose and slam it, all victorious” What I meant about OWN in the line was pertaining to logic. You can’t spurt foam through somebody’s else nose unless you are very, very friendly and even then it would be difficult. But you could plunk somebody’s else eye brows. I guess you think I am being so nit picky, well I am because I am so insecure. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
No, no, I see now what you meant. And you're right. You pointed out a superfluous word, which renders the rhythm (or meter, if it is there) as forced. Thank you chops. And I'm pretty insecure m'self. Any suggestions for a change? OH--wait-- "I'll spurt the foam through my blown nose and slam it, all victorious" And YES--I am serious about that. I kinda like it that way. It hints toward some bad habit or illness, and I've been known to suffer both. So ya'll let me know what ya'll think! Thanks chops! Y'see? It's okay. I'm one of the "good guys". *laughing* It-is-just-a-poem. We can work it out.  |
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Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
I knew it! It happened naturally. I’m so glad I didn’t post those five critiques. Before number 6 here’s a little idle chat: Bob Dylan as an introduction to poetry! Were we separated at birth? My love of Dylan Thomas came about because he had the same name as Bob, talk about getting the cart before the horse.  quote: It works perfectly well for me - at least it has done so far - that’s how I get my first drafts. I can understand the change of structure at verse three after your explanation Karen but do me a favour and read the poem without that verse - it’ll destroy the meaning of the poem but just concentrate on the sound of the remaining three verses and he rhythm it produces. Wait for me-- encouragement--I will write a symphony; and angels will dive perilous to hear my shy note quivering trembling the last note left hanging on the treble cleft dangling the precipice of how far I have to fall. Cheer me on, as I gulp pints, I will prove to you good sport. I'll spurt the foam through my own nose and slam it, all victorious cross-eyed, bottoming the top with all the brough-ha-ha--heh-ha dizzy in the jubilance of the moment of the thrall. I'll pick up a dauber's brush and pluck at my own eyelashes just to get a movement right, delicate in crevices as a shadow argues line as if it were the end of time waiting on a sundial, in seasons of the rain. Wait for me Cheer me on I’ll pick up 3,3,3 encouragement as I gulp pints a dauber's brush 4,4,4 And so it continues. Those three verses continue in almost the same vein to produce an almost perfect syllabic poem - the kind off stuff I write, ok there’s an odd syllable difference here and there but it could be tweaked, or it could be ignored - I ignore counts if it sounds ok - it’s not an exact science after all. There are two types of syllabic poetry, the first has the same number or syllables in each line, the second (yours) has a repeating count in corresponding lines of every stanza or verse. The thing is that syllabic poetry relies on this repetition of syllabic line lengths to create a rhythm independent of meter or rhyme but your ‘bridge’ verse interrupts the rhythm, at least for me. BTW Dylan Thomas was a master of syllabic poetry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabic_verse You wanted to know how I write, well your three verses are a perfect example of the structure - the content‘s down to the individual and has more to do with who we are rather than what we do and yours is fine. Personally I’d consider re-shaping the third verse to match the rest and use the structure to add the subtle rhythm. That said I’m biased, I like syllabic poetry, you may not, it’s a matter of opinion and preference I suppose. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
*karen cocks her head* "hmmm." Wow. Well now. I didn't know I was doing all of that. Now I'm scared of me again. but hmmmm....okay. I can't promise anything, because if I say I'll write something, walls go up. (If you've got a trick for getting around that--well then, I'll "owe" ya!) *wicked wink* Let me let this simmer. And like I said, I have problems with making stuff too neat, it's like that guy (oh--Michael Kors) on that Project Runway show--he hates when things are too "matchy-matched", and I tend to agree with him. I like something, to "pop". But for you, I'll give it a go. Or think about giving it a go. But now I'm all distracted by a most intriguing post by Yejun. (But I'll be back. I always come back to me. I have to. I live in me.) Thanks lovie! You are soooooooo smart! |
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TomMark Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133LA,CA |
Dear SB, I am sorry that I have to post my HO before Sir Brad. And in general, cynicsRus dose a very good critiques on you poem. He is probably still not happy, or is he? Your style most of the time free verse but with good beat. I have to say that you use each word as you spend your money...every cent has to have its worth. "Wait for me-- encouragement--I will write a symphony; and angels will dive perilous to hear my shy note quivering trembling the last note left hanging on the treble cleft dangling the precipice of how far I have to fall." If about yourself---it is your personality, shy and need encouragement always but clearly with the knowledge that you can do something grand. If for the un-dropped rain drop...than this is extremely beautiful "Cheer me on, as I gulp pints, I will prove to you good sport. I'll spurt the foam through my own nose and slam it, all victorious cross-eyed, bottoming the top with all the brough-ha-ha--heh-ha dizzy in the jubilance of the moment of the thrall." Who is "I"? what is "I'll spurt the foam through my own nose and slam it" ? and where is Brad? [This message has been edited by TomMark (12-10-2007 12:33 AM).] |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
quote: Heh. One of the serene parts of you [yeah, there is one or two ] is that what you do comes so DARNED naturally that people would pay for you to jam it in a jar so that they could purchase a little serenity for their own writing. [Oh, I'm so hoping you're noting the play on words.]Free Verse is a wonderful vehicle to be anyone you want to be, without permission. I think that is why any critique of one's free verse is exceptionally difficult for the majority of readers [me]. Reading one's poem aloud makes all the difference in the words. It aches to make me want to hear YOU read it aloud, sing it, if that's what you do. All I know is that when this poem trips aloud from my lips, my brain and mouth start to interact respectively and suddenly I see something that I want to invert, when inversion is not a necessary thing. I.e., quote: If read silently, I don't hear that I want to change "is it" to "it is". Either way works; but when read aloud, my mind wanted to reverse those two little words. You make your poetry look, sound, as if without effort; and that, m'dear, is where the effort really shows, because you care. I continue to learn from you.  " It matters not this distance now " Excerpt, Yesterday's Love ~*~ KRJ |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
This is apoem to be read at an open mic night. Lyrics... right. I can hear the music of words peppered with silences in my head. Sorry- other than the fact that I loved it, I got nuthin'. Happy new year! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I am grateful, and a little embarrassed regarding my ignorance of etiquette here, but thank you all, again. Happy New Year hush, and don't ever hush, and Kari, you are sooooo generous. Much honey-love to y'all. Thanks for taking the time. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Serenity: If I had to venture a guess, I’d have to say this started out as an attempt at a sonnet but, instead, you allowed the poem to control the form. Personally, I’m glad you did. To me, the poem describes the tension between wanting to find one’s self, being one’s self, and pleasing others. The ordering suggest which tends to have the stronger pull (not just for the narrator, but the reader as well). It also leaves unanswered which is the best choice. Is it A, B, or C? Can it be “None of the Above” … is there a “D” … You’ve really got me thinking on this one. One stylistic observation first. In Line One, I don’t think you need “encouragement” (not the word … or the act, for that matter). I’m not sure what eliminating it would do to a consistency of syllable count you were going for. The first paragraph seems to be about hopes and dreams unrealized – maybe risks not taken. You’ve taken us to the brink of taking that risky leap … and left us standing on the cliff ... good stuff here. I really like the second paragraph … the last two lines are impressive. Geeze … how on Earth did you figure out how to make such an odd word like “brough-ha-ha” work in a poem? Not only that, but the way you’ve presented it seems to make it exactly the right thing at the right time. Also, I’m assuming you intended to end with “thrall” here … the word alone turns all four lines that proceed it on their ear. Is this freedom? Thralldom? Hmmm. Paragraph three, if this was a sonnet, would be where I would expect to find the thematic turn … you’ve taken us from hope for one’s self, to selfish, to self-conscious. Isolating “you want” the way you did in the bottom line (which does end up being the “bottom line” sometimes, doesn’t it?). And in the end, the choice is made. Overall, I’d say this is a very interesting commentary on why we make choices (or let others make choices for us). At the same time you have the reader saying … “No, it shouldn’t be about what someone else wants,” you silence him/her with their own memories of doing precisely the same thing. For me the rhyme works, the formatting works, but more than anything, the poem works. Again, very good stuff … many thanks for the chance to read it. Jim |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Just read your and others' comments (didn't want to bias my reading) ... I see I was wrong about the sonnet. Sunshine: Why is free verse any more difficult to critique than verse? It might be free of fixed structure, rhythm and rhyme scheme ... but is it really "free" of anything else poetic? Hmmm ... do you think structure makes good critique easier, or is it a potential distraction from good critique? At any rate, this poem deserves another bump. Jim |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Jim, my thought process on free verse is as free as the verse itself. Everyone tries to pigeonhole free verse, i.e., quote: but then as serenity's poem changed, so did your thoughts. Some people are highly metrical. I constantly get reprimanded by a loved one because not all of my poems rhyme; and when I attempt a rhyme, others might nit pick that it is not up to their standards. Well, I keep trying. [You know that!] And I will continue to try. quote:Yes. Personally, I feel that free verse can be and is generally emoted from highly sensitive writing, usually honed by conditions and constraints. Not everyone can write free verse with as much emotion as serenity exhibits, time after time. She hits the nitty gritty and makes you rub your hands on your jeans. She also has the ability to make you hear the blues, and dance the dance. We are lucky to have her in the blue pages. But one cannot define [or at least, I haven't seen anyone do it yet] [[if they have, please point me in the right direction]] what free verse should be. Rather like living in the U.S. and what it means to live here, don't you think?  So, because there are no true, steadfast rules to free verse, how does one critique what is mercurial? |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
Wel;l, I think it's one of the greater unconditional love poems I've read and the thought of the shadow waiting on the sundial in the rainy season is an image that a far greater poetic mind than mine could conjure up. In other words, I think it's pretty brilliant. As far as the structure is concerned, William Mann once wrote of the Beatles.. "Harmonic interest is typical of their quicker songs, too, and one gets the impression that they think simultaneously of harmony and melody, so firm are the major tonic sevenths and ninths built into their tunes, and the flat, submediant key switches, so natural is the Aelolian cadence at the end...." ..to which John Lennin replied, "Huh? We just write songs." In other words, serene one, some have to work at it and, for some, it just comes natural and they don't even fully realize they do it but only know that they like the results. In other, other words....you're a natural. Don't change a thing |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
quote: I'm glad you asked! I'd start by suggesting there are no steadfast rules to critiquing any poetry. Writers of verse often "bend the rules" to suit their creative purposes. I think that is a good thing. A few questions you could ask yourself when reading free verse might be (1) does he rhythm of the poem complement the story or distract from it; (2) does the author make good use of sound to enhance the story (e.g., Serenity "brough-ha-ha--heh-ha" deftly turns an awkward word into a sort of laugh); and (3) how does the arrangement of sounds enhance or detract from your experience of reading the poem. Maybe others can add to the list. It is far from comprehensive. In short, what I look for when reading free verse or verse is whether the poem draws me into the experience of the poet. Secondary to this (for me) is whether the poet captures a moment or a perspective on a thought that I hadn't considered before. Just a few ideas for you to chew on. Jim |
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Yejun Junior Member
since 2007-11-21
Posts 49 |
quote: This part stayed with me. The part about beer and noses did too, but that brought back bad memories. |
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beautyincalvary Member
since 2006-07-13
Posts 98 |
I like the symphony part and the angels diving to hear the note. I'm not qualified for critique really, but I liked this poem a lot. Will someone please explain to me what this foam/nose thing is? I am ignorant. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
The explanation is in the preceding line: "Cheer me on, as I gulp pints, I will prove to you good sport." A memory of college drinking games for me. Bless you for your ignorance of that, because drinking games are stupid, which was sort of my point. And um, yeah, I never could drink beer fast like that, and I always did get a foamy nose when I tried. I was great at "quarter-bounce" though. But don't ask me about my GPA. Thanks for reading, lovie. |
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