navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » LEAVING AND TAKING
Critical Analysis #2
Post A Reply Post New Topic LEAVING AND TAKING Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA

0 posted 2007-11-15 02:18 PM


LEAVING AND TAKING


Of course, her only answer is to leave!
Discussion turned to ice cube melt, the stale
Of water can’t be held. No, not from ice.

But what to take?  Cosmetics and a broom?
Her clothes, indeed, so nominal. A clock?
To whom belong the references to life?

To take, to take, to leave? Old photographs?
The detrious of time and times: “What’s his”
She asks, “as separate from mine? Odd socks?”

The artifacts so cherished in their place:
The Pueblo pots Maria made? The print
Of rooftops Richard Diebenkorn has signed?

The odd accumulation of crevettes?
The butcher’s block, faience and figurines?
So much collected, nothing to collect.

What sentimental value lies in objects
When sentiment has died?  She might take him,
Objectified, a thing that must be left behind.


Jim

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (11-16-2007 03:16 PM).]

© Copyright 2007 Jim Aitken - All Rights Reserved
hush
Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653
Ohio, USA
1 posted 2007-11-16 09:22 AM


I really love this... I honestly have no nitpicks, other than my personal dislike of exclamation points. I definitely think this is meant to be read as a sort of falsely enthusiastic premise on leaving that crumbles when the subject is faced with insurmountable task... then turns to the hysteria we often feel when presented with something so huge.

'But what to take?  Cosmetics and a broom?'

The first things the woman considers... that which she is most familiar with nad inseperable from.

'So much collected, nothing to collect.'

I really love this line, and I think if there was some way to rearrange things and make this the last line, it would somehow close the poem more efficiently. JMO.

Hope this helped.


oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
2 posted 2007-11-16 12:41 PM


Hush --  Thank you very much for your comments.I think the exclamation point is OK here, but but I don't like my use of colon.

Glad you enjoyed.

Best, Jim

chopsticks
Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888
The US,
3 posted 2007-11-16 01:40 PM


I am not smart enough to find anything wrong with this poem.  

The poem became a real pleasure after a couple reads.

I stumbled over the last line in the fourth stanza ( my ignorance ) and wondered if it was ok to smile at the first line second stanza.



oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
4 posted 2007-11-16 02:32 PM


Hi Chopsticks!  Thank you for your comments.

The reference to the artist Richard Diebenkorn is semi-obscure, but as a signed print, as opposed to an original painting, fits in the context of an established middle class life.

The first line of the second stanza is wry.  I'm glad you smiled.

You are not, as Essorant might say, unsmart. My recollection is that you are young. You have, however, already begun, and will continue, to add to your own set of referential images.  And I will probably stumble over all of them.

Best, Jim  



Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
5 posted 2007-11-18 06:09 PM


What does 'detrious' mean?
jupitures daughter
Junior Member
since 2007-11-14
Posts 10

6 posted 2007-11-19 03:00 AM


not knowing enough about poetry from an academic viewpoint i have no objections to your poem. you have described well the confusion one feels when leaving a relashionship and wondering what to take.
thanks for the read
j.d.

chopsticks
Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888
The US,
7 posted 2007-11-19 06:17 AM


Brad, that’s a good question.

I put a little Kentucky windage on the word and how he used it and I think he meant to write ( detritus )

But, he’s tricky and may have spelled it wrong deliberately.

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
8 posted 2007-11-19 12:51 PM


"detrious n. 1. a neologism found in poetry where detritus doesn't scan, see Aitken, Jim  "Leaving and Taking." 2. a mistake of the type often found in poetry, esp Aitken, Jim's.  3.  An opportunity to smack a smart ass."

Appropriately chagrined, Jim


oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
9 posted 2007-11-19 12:59 PM


Oh, all right!  It was a mistake.  I changed it in my copy to "Detritus of their time..."  Too late to change it here.

Thank you all.     Jim

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
10 posted 2007-11-19 04:06 PM


Woah, Nelly!

--Is that how you spell the thing you say when you want a horse to stop?

I asked a question. I'm not convinced that it should be changed. 'Detrious' is better than 'detritus' sound-wise.

Though 'detritus' packs more punch.

I can change it if you want me to, I'm just not sure I want you to want me to.

Did I mention that I enjoyed the poem tremendously?

It lingers in the mind.

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
11 posted 2007-11-19 07:12 PM


Hi Brad!  

Additional song lyrics:

You say de-trahy-tus
And I say de-TRI-us
It's really not something
that ought to divide us,
   Let's (not) call the whole thing off!

There are, as you've suggested, three things going on here, sound, meaning, and spelling. I'be been known to get prickly with others about all of these, so it seems appropriate to take my lumps.  

Detritus was definitely the intended meaning.  Detrious is what came out.  But unless one is willing to by the "neologism" bit, the word used is difinitely wrong.  On the other hand, it does sound a lot better.  Maybe it is a liberty that can be taken.  

It's not my manner to try break new linguistic ground.  I try to be as consciously straightforward as I can, but that's just me.  I'm really old fashioned that way, and, more importantly, it's the only thing I know how to to.

And no, you didn't mention that you liked the poem.  Gad, it is clear that you read it, and that is the most impressive comment anyone can offer.  Thanks!

And now, for something completely different, a "Woah Nelly" story:

Long ago and far away, when I had greenhouses and acreage, I bought a Welsh Pony for my six year old son.  I knew nothing about ponies, Welsh or otherwise, but I had an innate sense of the connection between kids and horses, and it seemed like a reasonable idea to get a smaller version for my little guy.

I will delete all appropriate expletives about this particular pony, and just suggest that it was a headstrong (deleted) (deleted)(deleted) (deleted)son of a (deleted) with dubious ancestors.  My son, Joey, named this (deleted) "Nosey Pony"

After $900.00 in vet fees on this $100.00 (deleted), Nosey Pony was deemed fit to ride; unlikely to pass on scabies, rabies, or whatever other $900.00 worth of contagion it might have been carrying.

So, we put a cowboy's hat on Joey's head, and set young Joe astride his (deleted) (deleted) horse.  Nosey Pony shrugged him off, took two steps, and looked back at us with unmistakable disdain.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Now, being the pater familias, and unwilling to admit that I had made a, so far, $1,000 mistake, and we're not even talking about the (deleted) (deleted) (deleted) shed and on-going feed and (deleted) maintenance, I decided to mount this wretched four foot, gelded, stink pot (didn't have to delete that) and explain the situation.

After a half hearted try or two, Nosey Pony realized that I was not shruggable.  So, he lowered his head, took off like a bat out of (deleted), reached the back barbed wire fence in a certain Welsh (deleted) Pony 60 yard dash record time,

Nosey Pony simultaneously stopped on the three quarter sized horse's equivalent of a dime, threw his ass into the air, and pitched me, not over, but through the barbed wire strands.

Now, I am laying, tangled, barbed, sore, and bleeding in my neighbor's field, but I still have Nosey Pony's reins IN MY HAND!

I am thinking "Mongo."  Mongo from "Blazing Saddles."  If I can get unentangled, and when I get up, I intend to explain the situation with a single devastating poke to Nosey Pony's nose.

At this point, Joey catches up with us.  "Dad, Dad," he cries, "Nosey Pony let you ride him!"

Well, OK, I can't bring myself to cold (deleted) a (deleted) (deleted) horse in front of my kid.  Childhood is already traumatic enough.  I let go of the reins.

When my wife remounts sweet Joe on Nosey Pony -- never mind me, I'm merely dying here -- Ol' Nosey walks about with kid astride, having made his point and established who is riding whom.

I await someone, anyone, with wire cutters.

This is the stuff of life.  "Woah Nelly" doesn't always work.

Would I trade the scars on my chest and back for anything?  Not a chance!

Best and real appreciation,  

Ramblin' Jim Aitken



[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (11-19-2007 08:36 PM).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
12 posted 2007-11-19 08:00 PM


Great story Jim. I was ROFLMAO through the whole [deleted] thing.

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
13 posted 2007-11-19 10:22 PM


Thank you NotAPoet!  I'm really glad you enjoyed this anecdote.  It is just silliness, and every one has their own silly tales to tell on themselves.

There's a halfway point to telling tales in C/A.  Grinch has suggested that few respondents are willing to talk about life experience as opposed to poetic experience.

I was rather startled by the thought, though it seems to be so.  This little tale is indeed off point, but Grinch has something very valid to say.

I've been doing a little posting in Open, trying to relate how things relate.

I'm tickled by PiP, and give it my best shots -- Glen Morangie, Tallisker, Johnny Walker Blue, etc.

Very best regards, Jimbeaux

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
14 posted 2007-11-19 11:16 PM


Ah [deleted], you can pretty much say any[deleted]thing you want, as long as the [deleted] stuff is deleted.


oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
15 posted 2007-11-20 12:30 PM


Hi Brad -- Yeah, I buy that deleted (deleted).  There's a place for vulgarity, and it isn't here in PiP.

I think we can be adult while playing, and playing within the rules is fine by me.

There are great vulgarians, Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor, Whoopi Goldberg, Moms Mabley, Redd Foxx, Robin Williams, etc. and they make as many people laugh as they offend.  This ain't the forum for that, though I think, as you suggest, one can tease about it.

I DO edit some of my language per your suggestions, or, ah, PiP requirements.  No sweat.

I think it is important to treat the sensibilities of the general "audience" here with consideration and respect, so I do.  I'm neither a particulary raunchy writer on a mission nor a prude.

You once asked me if there might be a point to making C/A an R-rated forum. My answer was "no," and I still feel that way.  Certainly, this cuts down on legitimate submission of poetic expression for analysis, but, at the same time, the bulk of Pipsters even submitting here are youth's.  Why hurt them with reality?  It's going to hit them in the face soon enough, and it can be raunchy, or downright ugly.

C/A need not be a fluffy bunny place, PiP has those already.  But there's a line, and poets can do good work without crossing it here.

The anecdote I got into came from your salutation "Woah Nelly."  Nothing more that that.

You're a good guy, and you know how outrageous I CAN be.

Not here, though.

Best, Jim
  

chopsticks
Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888
The US,
16 posted 2007-11-20 09:18 AM


Jim, I think your definition of “ Detrious “ was righteous  and very well put. I wondered if it was ok to smile at definition number three ?

Ain't it grand how we can laugh at our self.



Post A Reply Post New Topic ⇧ top of page ⇧ Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format.
navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » LEAVING AND TAKING

Passions in Poetry | pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums | 100 Best Poems

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary