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Critical Analysis #2
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A consensus for the hatred among us (that brings us together)
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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A consensus for the hatred among us (that brings us together) |
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b.costen Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107ontario, CAN |
a mother unleashes the portend of amniotic carcass on the cess pool we call city urine, blood, coagulated phlegm, ideas that, decaying with the muscle of them pull off the rotten cartilage; up around the child grow these walls we lock her into our method and tell her how she grew what to say and when to say it how to think it and when she can screw who she can talk to and how to use a toilet around her grow these pillars of man how she should look and that she’s free to do what she wants but if she does the walls will crack and fail hate will prevail and in order to be successful you must conceal your individuality because that part of her is the dangerous one oh the dangerous one we must control the dangerous one don’t let it get out in the night and kill our children and steal our cows stop it from raping in north america so it can rape in africa so it can destroy the blacks from new orleans we need slaves to feed our useless hands food our slavering bodies need strong black children to build us homes and cars and villages entire economies need to be built immediately and slaves are the only way to do it doxology: i used to believe in road signs and order and the rule of law then the floods came and washed the bloated bodies past my house my youngest sucked the saliva from my lips for seven days no one came the water surpassed the roads and the signs were buried in the poisonous fecal industry of a lake sucking black hearts from our homes i learned some very interesting lessons— knowing this amoeba of filth that covered the horizon and flecked buildings from their moorings rooted in the very consciousness of the city -- its very lawbooks – (knowing it) was a passion of manmade devilry evoked so carefully through the constant economy of slaves choking on the bullets the ghetto bought from the government war factories so the transportation penis can rape the lubricated veins of mother earth while they ignore the cracks in the levees the day the sun reflected prominent on the black soil of that new lake in my backyard the rank of death and hurricane clouds formed a bubble of armageddon burst by the needles of golden sunset it was then i awoke from my silent reflection on the purposeful evils of this world i began shouting for help from my rooftop my wife saw me shouting and i fell to my knees from weakness, she rocked my head in her chapped hands, and i could see through my tearing eyes all my children are crying, starving on that blessed rooftop— i am crying right from the gut we all lied on the shingles and cried harder than we ever had our bodies bent into foetal hay rolls for the helicopters we, crying, why have we done such a wrong service to our fellow man and woman? |
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| © Copyright 2007 ben costen - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Does your keyboard not allow you to make capital letters? |
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b.costen Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107ontario, CAN |
nice constructive criticism essorant, you must have spent a long time reading to post such a well thought out comment  |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
If you want us to take your poem critically and seriously, then you ought to take the time and care to write critically too and not post in such a sloppy manner. And you expect us to deal with two others already as well? |
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b.costen Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107ontario, CAN |
i wrote it seriously and carefully in the style that i prefer and that i think others will appreciate. if you don't want to comment, then don't. hopefully others will. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
On the caps thing: Ess wants caps. You don't want caps. I think it could go either way.  On the poem: Wow, you have some powerful stuff, drop the telly stuff and don't take so long to get to the meat. Or, perhaps, structure it so that you integrate the first part (something like a flashback, perhaps?) into the rest of the poem. I think you need to grab the reader first and don't see any reason for a build up in this piece. Good luck! PS Ess does have a point about posting three poems in a row. We're a small, slow moving forum and inevitably things are going to be overlooked or forgotten. It's in your best interest (or, if you want, it's in the poem's best interest if this or that poem actually had interests) to refrain from doing that. It give the few of us who post regularly a chance to look at it more carefully. Thanks. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
If you don’t use capitals or punctuation , how do we know when the sentences start or stop ? And that semicolon at the end of the third line, what was that for ? If that cattle thief had you rattled, I guess I can understand . [This message has been edited by chopsticks (11-09-2007 05:55 AM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I thought you had some really strong imagery in this (how could it not be strong?) but I felt more compelled by the second half. The first section seems kind of run-on or list-y to me, while everything after: 'doxology:' Seemed much more poignant, and really spoke to me as a human being- the image of this family, and the actual visceral description of the experience was much more moving to me. hope this helped. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Costen, I think you can use your imagery to describe your thoughts on a sunset, a spring rain, love or many other things ; but I don’t think you can use your imagination to describe something as complicated as how a black man feels about almost anything. I would like to think you could at least find New Orleans on a map. Even in the devastation of the afterbirth of that hurricane, the black man doesn’t feel like a slave. He feels like a force to be reckoned with. Btw, I’m not a black man and I don’t play one on this forum. |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
"but I don’t think you can use your imagination to describe something as complicated as how a black man feels about almost anything." Barbara Hambly might disagree. |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“ Barbara Hambly might disagree “ I am sure a lot of people would disagree and I will mark Barbara down as one. I will never try to force my opinion on her or anyone else. A certain percentage of the readers of my post agree with me and a certain percentage don’t, I can live with it either way. Btw, who is Barbara ? Yes, now I remember her a writer of fantasy, science fiction, mystery, and historical fiction. |
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b.costen Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107ontario, CAN |
who said he was black? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
" So it can destroy the blacks from new orleans." To use a good old New Orleans expression, "who say dat " |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
I think it implied (though not necessarily the only interpretation) that the narrator is black. I asked myself the same question ("Is this a black person speaking") and I personally interpret it as written from a black viewpoint. But there is nothing specific that makes that concrete. Does the narrator have to be black to be mad about what was happening to the mostly Af. American populace? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
“we need slaves to feed our useless hands food” I don’t know where his sentence starts or stops but “ We “ is first person plural and made me think that he was not including himself ( as a slave ) in the above and yes anger over an injustice can come from anyone and how is this for a run on sentence “ who said he was black ? “ It looks like the author doesn’t know . I know I didn’t say the narrator was black, I just said I wasn’t . |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Maybe this will brighten things up a little: Back in WWII, US fighter squadron pilots would often fly under radio silence. But things get lonely up there in the cockpit, so after a while there'd be a crackle of static as someone keyed his mike. Then a disembodied voice would reply, "Who dat?" An answer would come, "Who dat say who dat?" And another, "Who dat say who dat when I say who dat ?" After a few rounds of this, the squadron commander would grab his microphone and yell, "Cut it out, you guys!" A few moments of silence. Then... "Who dat?" |
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jupitures daughter Junior Member
since 2007-11-14
Posts 10 |
b.costen i preferred the second part. for me it was more real. j.d. |
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Bob K Member Elite
since 2007-11-03
Posts 4208 |
Dear B.Costen, I think this is very talented stuff. I think you are also very attached to it, because it is an extraordinarily dangerous personal place to go. I don't care if you're black, white or luminous puce, anybody who'se been to this particular suburb of hell has very large bruises on top of bruises. Part of the hell of this place is that nobody who's been there can every believe that anyone else has visited. I need to be respectful in talking with you. This is very advanced stuff but it's not yet finished stuff. It deserves unqualified praise simply for the risks you took to bring these particular words back. You are too attached at this point to hear that this can be improved, sometimes by moving clauses and lines around a bit, sometimes by changing the line breaks to increase the power of line endings and to the ambiguity at line end and verbs at line beginnings to clarify the movement you want to express. It's clear in your hear right now, but you're so close to it that you can't see how it's unclear to others. Only other people can tell you that, even though it feels like a profanation at this point. It's such powerful stuff, it's probably going to take a while for you to absorb the unintended insult of what people are saying. In the face of such powerful feeling and imagry, please bear in mind, it's very hard to offer good immediate and above all tolerable feedback. This work deserves it. I hope you're still looking for feedback here and can catch a glimpse of this. Best wishes, BobK |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Bob K, I really liked your Dear TomMark post because I had just read an article by this poet about how some people don’t know how to read a poem and your paragraph below complimented his article so much. “ I once asked a pretty good and very well published poet what the metric was he was using for a particular poem; and he said, putting me firmly and appropriately in my place, that he was using between two and five stresses per line and between four and eleven syllables. That is, he was using enough to do the job and no more. No line was any longer or shorter than it had to be. He tried to make each line break mean something when he could, and tried to make the beginning of each line start with a bit of a kick, if he could.” I just read you Dear B. Costen post and since I have by far the most post to this piece. I want to clear up any unintended insults I may have committed. If the perception of an insult was when I wrote “ I would like to think you could at least find New Orleans on a map” that was a bad choice of words and I apologize to B. Costen. What I wanted to say was, I don’t think from what I get from your peace you have ever been to New Orleans. Anything else I wrote I was writing about the piece and not the person. I have noticed that not to many people post here on Sunday so maybe this was a good time to post the longest one I have ever posted |
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b.costen Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107ontario, CAN |
Bob and others, You might have me wrong. I've been posting to this site for some time. I went on a hiatus but now I'm back. I am very open to criticism. And I am listening to everyone's ideas, and will at some point use them to modify the original. There's plenty of time for that though. The most insulting post I found was the first one posted seconds after the poem was submitted - where clearly no effort had been made to even read it through. No I have never been to New Orleans, not that I would want to. But, if I had, I am sure I would have much more to write about, and that this poem might be different. I live in a suburb in Canada called Orleans though. That will have to do. Thanks Bob and everyone who replied. so what's it going to be then, eh? |
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chopsticks Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888The US, |
Dear B. Costen, , you are certainly a very nice person for your reply to speak as gentle as it did . You were indeed treated shabby on this thread and I was the biggest offender. There are some poets on here that truly love poetry and will go out of their way to help would be poets like me. Some of the poets on here love poetry almost to a fault . Poetry, I can take it or leave it, but there are a couple poets on here that that have helped me and sparked my interest in poetry. I would like to say thank you to both of them Essorant and Balladeer. Thank you B. Costen for being the gentleman that you are. |
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