navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » The ceiling runs down the walls like troubled sheep
Critical Analysis #2
Post A Reply Post New Topic The ceiling runs down the walls like troubled sheep Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina

0 posted 2007-09-27 09:39 PM


I'm posting this in here upon request. So don't rip it up too much, heh. Ah, I'm just kidding, have at it.


  
The ceiling runs down the walls like troubled sheep

Dog farms re-releasing shorthaired
animals to better suit
the rumpled cases
of awful textures: like
furlong metric systems
and noises emitting sounds similar
to backwashed liquids lapped
up by pathetic engineers
of anxiety, concern,
and fretfulness.

Simpleminded composers,
writing music too elaborate
and politically boisterous
to save the paper where the pen
patted itself on the back
for deciding to detach itself
from an ill-wanted lover:
an unattainable woman
with too many shades
of shadows to make sense
of any determining silhouette
or body mass as a means
of identification.

Rockets to the Earth!
Folks from diverse sources
squeeze their hands tightly
in anticipation of a new discovery,
of some planet they’ve been living on
for too many years to call
a decent shack on the beach.
They wait… for something new,
defying Einstein’s advice
about insanity and doing the same
ol’ thing o’er and over,
waiting for that change
to turn your eighty-
seven cents into a whole dollar.

I am not the human I wish to be!
Because there’s nothing left
to figure out or locate.

There’s no room for the uselessly
misplaced imbeciles.
There’s no place for placemats
on that kitchen table
where a woman, fed up with her
Buffalo, decided to give in to
her numerous and elaborate
feelings of fear, dread
and ceaseless trepidations and
take the life of the man she
loved: he who was man enough
to supply her with those
thoughts of infinite sadness.

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

© Copyright 2007 Edward Grant - All Rights Reserved
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
1 posted 2007-09-28 06:54 PM


I asked this to be posted here because, well, I like it.

Great images but what intrigues me more is the sheer relentless phrasing. Just when normal people would probably end a sentence this one keeps going -- Living Colour (Vernon Reid) or Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page)used to do solos like this and I always loved that.

And even though the people all seem generalized here, I found myself interested in them.

I think there's some interesting things to talk about here:

I'll try to get into it more later but the title -- the switch from the singular ceiling to the plural sheep created a strange, surreal moment for me.

And that's just the beginning.

Plenty of other stuff to talk about here. Some good, some not.  


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
2 posted 2007-09-28 07:06 PM


Sorry, have to add one more thing. This popped into my head yesterday and it completely slipped my mind when I was writing the above.

It's a kind of "Lonely People" for the new century.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

3 posted 2007-09-28 07:56 PM


I loved it then and love it now!



Why? Because I can freakin' relate? (Is that enough?)

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
4 posted 2007-09-28 08:40 PM


Too surreal for me, over all.  Poems like this remind me of insanity (or drug induced psychosis).  And the alleged connection between genius and insanity, I doubt very much.  Not saying there's not a striking image here and there.  But when everything borders on bizarre, then nothing is particularly striking for that reason.  

Just my opinion.

Stephen    

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
5 posted 2007-09-28 08:57 PM


You make an important aesthetic point, Stephen, but I don't think it, necessarily, applies here.

And if I can find an hour of free time I'll try  to show why.


serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

6 posted 2007-09-28 09:15 PM


I don't think the drug issue applies here at all. Salvadore Dali slept with a sketch pad so he could capture images of the subconcious...

I don't believe the subconscious can be avoided in art. (Oh let's forget the lofty expression of "art" and replace that with "self-expression".) I think that what we don't say is as obvious as what we do...it's kinda like emotional silk-screen?



runnin' nekkid serenity

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
7 posted 2007-09-28 09:29 PM


Karen,

You're right.

But if we look at the other two sentences:

quote:
And the alleged connection between genius and insanity, I doubt very much.


I agree with this.

quote:
Not saying there's not a striking image here and there.  But when everything borders on bizarre, then nothing is particularly striking for that reason.


And here as well. I take this to mean the difference between a purple dot on a white sheet of paper and a purple dot on a purple sheet of paper.

I just don't think it applies with this one.

But then again, maybe I'm being just a bit too agreeable today.

It does happen.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738

8 posted 2007-09-28 09:34 PM


It has been a very indefinite day...





sigh

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
9 posted 2007-09-28 09:45 PM


Yeah Brad,

I could be hasty in my judgment.  But I don't like to have to hunt too hard for poetic merit.  It kind of has to grab me somewhat, ere I even want to read it multiple times.  Surrealism (as a movement, or a defining character) just doesn't.  Though I'm not against using the surreal as a poetic device.


Stephen  

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
10 posted 2007-09-28 10:04 PM


No argument here.

The difference is that it did  'grab' me.

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina
11 posted 2007-10-01 03:20 PM


Wow, I'm surprised at how much attention this is getting. I'm glad it "grabbed" you Brad (and Karen   ). It's cool Steph, I know you're not really into this type of poetry, I appreciate your opinion.  

As for the drug thing, you all know I'm not a user. It's never been my intention to give the impression that I take drugs but my poetry seems to incite the subject.

Although I have had my fair share of brushes with "mental instability." I had insomnia for 4+ years in my youth (which has ceased only about a year ago after much therapy). During those waking years, I went through some weird things that heavily influenced my writing. And since I've been getting more sleep, my dreams have intensified greatly to a point where I frequently hallucinate, which in turn has intensified my paranoia.

So when a poem of mine reads like a drug trip, it's just a product of my sleepless youth and my paranoia-induced concerns.

That is actually, what this poem is about: paranoia and needless fear. Karen is %1000 right, the subconscious most certainly cannot be avoided in art, unfortunately.

The title, obviously, is just a fancy way of saying the roof is collapsing on top of me.

My constant use of surrealism in my work is a combination of my efforts and my involuntary style. In other words, I do try to use word combinations and images that are surreal but most of the time, that is just how I feel; and the way it hits the paper is the way it pours out of my head.

"But I don't like to have to hunt too hard for poetic merit."

I can definitely see your point, Steph. I've actually been working on trying to write with less ambiguity and vagueness and try to be clearer in what I want to say. But alas, I can't change what comes natural to me.

Thanks for all the thoughts, guys.


"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
12 posted 2007-10-01 06:33 PM


quote:
The ceiling runs down the walls like troubled sheep


Well, Ed, whether you like it or not, the title goes further than 'fancy'. I've already mentioned the shift from singular to plural, but what you have are bugs or bug-sized  

Immediately, you have two things happening here: our fear of insects combined with an inferred wolf/sheep comparison. I think this works well as it applies both fear of the masses and disdain for them at the same time.

It is a comic and horrifying scene at the same time .

quote:
Dog farms re-releasing shorthaired
animals to better suit
the rumpled cases
of awful textures: like
furlong metric systems
and noises emitting sounds similar
to backwashed liquids lapped
up by pathetic engineers
of anxiety, concern,
and fretfulness.


This could probably be cleaned up a little (anxiety, concern, and fretfulness -- what's the difference here?), but I see old people, probably rather well off, with show dogs.

Other than a certain repetitiveness, I don't see anything here that contradicts that. For example, furlong metric system means an archaic measuring system and yet the 'metric ' system is still seen as new to American and , I believe, English English speakers.
quote:

Simpleminded composers,
writing music too elaborate
and politically boisterous
to save the paper where the pen
patted itself on the back
for deciding to detach itself
from an ill-wanted lover:
an unattainable woman
with too many shades
of shadows to make sense
of any determining silhouette
or body mass as a means
of identification.


I think 'itself' should probably become 'it' -- the image of picking up and putting down the  pen on paper is clearer then.

Scene: With music playing in the background, a man is writing to a woman that he can't understand.

Ed's descriptions capture much more.

The first two parts show a group of people and an individual respectively.

More later.


[This message has been edited by Brad (10-01-2007 11:54 PM).]

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618
Statesboro, GA, USA
13 posted 2007-10-01 11:08 PM


quote:
I can definitely see your point, Steph. I've actually been working on trying to write with less ambiguity and vagueness and try to be clearer in what I want to say. But alas, I can't change what comes natural to me.


A very gracious reply Ed.  Your stuff may grow on me yet.  

Stephen

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina
14 posted 2007-10-02 02:28 PM


Brad,

quote:
This could probably be cleaned up a little (anxiety, concern, and fretfulness -- what's the difference here?)


I know that's a tad repetitive but when I wrote it with "anxiety" alone, it didn't sound right.

quote:
...and noises emitting sounds similar
to backwashed liquids lapped
up by pathetic engineers
of anxiety.


It just sounds incomplete, imo. Maybe I can choose some different words that aren't so similar in meaning.

You notice I did it in the last stanza as well:

quote:
her numerous and elaborate
feelings of fear, dread
and ceaseless trepidations



My rationalization of it is that the repetitiveness adds a sense of ceaselessness with these problems; that by repeating it, it hints that the issues are completely unremitting.

I've been up in the air with this. I'd like to reword it without the repetitiveness but keep the same message.

Thanks Brad


____________________________

Steph,

"Your stuff may grow on me yet."

I suppose weirder things have happened, haha. Thanks Steph

"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
15 posted 2007-10-02 09:15 PM


Yeah, I was going to bring up that last part when I got to it. I'm not done yet.
b.costen
Member
since 2003-11-02
Posts 107
ontario, CAN
16 posted 2007-10-03 08:15 AM


The first stanza is confusing, a little boring and just not as good to read as the rest.  I'd consider cutting it out and just starting with the second stanza, or rewriting the first stanza to be as good as the rest of the poem.

so what's it going to be then, eh?

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina
17 posted 2007-10-03 09:47 AM


quote:
I'd consider cutting it out and just starting with the second stanza


Yeah, I probably won't be doing that. But thanks for the read.  


"Well I wish that you would cheat with someone, 'cause you're like diggin' holes in water and we know that can't be done."

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
18 posted 2007-10-03 07:17 PM


quote:
Rockets to the Earth!
Folks from diverse sources
squeeze their hands tightly
in anticipation of a new discovery,
of some planet they’ve been living on
for too many years to call
a decent shack on the beach.


The rockets line is a great interjection and probably cemented my interest in the poem. Like Battlestar Galactica, we have a diverse  bunch of people attempting to reach Earth.

Except, of course, they already live there.

One problem for me is the comparison between the planet and a decent shack. It's hard for me to visualize (of course, it could be that 'to call' also means something like 'to phone' but that seems even more problematic). The beach then is our solar system, neighborhood, galaxy whatever and the 'shack' is something that we should be comfortable --'decent'--with.

However, the shack makes more sense as a transition between the 'space going' people and the next sentence:

quote:
They wait… for something new,
defying Einstein’s advice
about insanity and doing the same
ol’ thing o’er and over,
waiting for that change
to turn your eighty-
seven cents into a whole dollar.


The 'shack' combined with 'Einstein' sets up a nice coherence between the two sentences, uniting them in the imaginitive, habitual worlds.  Both seem to end up with the same waiting.

I don't know the significance of 87 cents but the basic point, I guess, is simply that we wait in anticipation for what is in fact a trifle (though 13 cents profit is not a trifle in the big leagues.)

I'll try to finish this up later, but look at the topics in these strophes: a scene of rich ,old people, a man writing a letter, imaginitive poor people and the next one, the always important 'I'.

Anybody else see the pattern?


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
19 posted 2007-10-03 08:20 PM


quote:
I am not the human I wish to be!
Because there’s nothing left
to figure out or locate.


And we have another interjection. And this one is interesting, not because it signifies a transition between two pairs of strophes (see below) but because it's almost as if the speaker has decided to stop observing the world and wants to become a part of it.

And yet, immediately, we are told that the reason that 'he is not the human' he wants to be, is the fact that the world or himself has already been figured out -- that there is nothing left to look for or find, no mystery left in the universe. That we are all, perhaps, waiting for something to happen but we wait in vain because it's already happened.

My personal reaction to this was, 'that's just dumb'. But in terms of the poem, I think it makes a kind of sense or non-sense if you will. The tone of the piece is less than complimentary to the people being depicted. He excoriates those who follow status routines, break up with the unattainable, wait to win the lottery, but is angry that he can't find anything new in the world or with himself. Isn't this interjection a kind of confession? What is it but the excoriation of the self or of the world because, in essence,  the only thing left are the following actions?

It is the confession, not of existential angst, but of existential boredom.

But it takes an interesting shift in the last strophe.

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 2005-12-18
Posts 1154
Greenville, South Carolina
20 posted 2007-10-03 10:58 PM


I've never seen you dive this deep into a poem before, let alone one supplied by me.

I'm pretty shocked at the level of understanding you have with this. Some of your interpretations describe undertones that I wasn't even aware of but nonetheless reflect how I feel. Maybe my subconscious is leaking and I wasn't aware of it. You must be a mental plumber, heh.

You pinpointed all of the comments I made about society but for some stupid reason, I didn't think I was talking about myself in S4 and the beginning of S5. I know I started S4 with "I," but it felt removed for some reason. This is really strange, I feel like I've come to a realization about myself.

quote:
There’s no room for the uselessly
misplaced imbeciles.


I just re-read this line and... well, I'm talking about myself. (Freudian slip?) I didn't realize how narcissistically self-demeaning I am. This is incredibly strange.


Thanks Brad, really.

chopsticks
Senior Member
since 2007-10-02
Posts 888
The US,
21 posted 2007-10-04 08:34 AM


The first line of the poem caught my attention. I am a animal lover particularly dogs; but then I was not sure about the rest. I may be just to run of the mill to get it .I am almost a hundred percent sure that you are not a drug user or have a mental disorder and I don’t even know you.

Btw, If you knew where I lived, I wouldn’t be to worried, there is always a hundred and fifty pounds of Germany Shepard at my side


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
22 posted 2007-10-14 07:15 PM


Ed,

I haven't finished this yet, but it is for the most part done. Psychology is not my thing -- and I suspect that you talking like that made me freeze.

I like words.

So -- don't do that.


Post A Reply Post New Topic ⇧ top of page ⇧ Go to Previous / Newer Topic Back to Topic List Go to Next / Older Topic
All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format.
navwin » Archives » Critical Analysis #2 » The ceiling runs down the walls like troubled sheep

Passions in Poetry | pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums | 100 Best Poems

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary