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Cold Shoulder
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Cold Shoulder |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Giving the demons the cold shoulder, Quitting cold turkey is more bold, Sold my soul for nothing in return, The burning in my spirit itches for release, But at least I can feast on the emissions of the beast, And channel my energies into something constructive, Disruptive daemons scatter my brain, So I increase my efforts double time, That is why I choose to rhyme, Instead of free write, A copout, like drinking beer, When brandy is in sight, So I sold my copyrights, For something strong to drink, And went out to play the game, Which I lost in a wink. It’s like skating on thin ice and jumping through the cracks, It like flying a plane at night during a UFO attack, It’s like living in a shack outside of an epicurean mansion, It’s like walking through a portal towards the fifth dimension. I was brought to hell and escaped using my wits, Taking risks similar to cutting open your wrists, I never attempted suicide, though the thought crossed my mind, Now I stand the test of time while staring at the hourglass, The world’s lost the plot of the book of life and man, So I do what I can to revive it, all the while trying to survive it. It’s like writing a book with no pages to spare, It’s like composing philosophy when nobody really cares, It’s like studying history when nothing will really change, It’s like being an anthropologist when all of the subjects are deranged. I devote myself now to the study of man, Sit by the wayside while the wheels are turning, It may burn to watch society rip itself apart, Like so many beasts acting like a pack of sharks, With the scent of blood hovering in the water around them, I will search until I find the smarter ones among them, And I will sing them a song to wake them up from the conundrum. It’s like being a muse when there’s nobody to listen, It’s like comprehending god across a void like schism, It’s like being a victim of your own life’s decisions, It’s like playing basketball when you would rather be fishing. |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
staring at the hourglass, Up till then good, but that through me off in rythmn |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Thanks for your response. I will work on that. |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Does this version read better rythmically? Giving the demons the cold shoulder, Quitting cold turkey is more bold, Sold my soul for nothing in return, The burning in my spirit itches for release, But at least I can feast on the emissions of the beast, And channel my energies into something constructive, Disruptive daemons scatter my brain, So I increase my efforts double time, That is why I choose to rhyme, Instead of free write, A copout, like drinking beer, When brandy is in sight, So I sold my copyrights, For something strong to drink, And went out to play the game, Which I lost in a wink. It’s like skating on thin ice and jumping through the cracks, It like flying a plane at night during a UFO attack, It’s like living in a shack outside of an epicurean mansion, It’s like walking through a portal towards the fifth dimension. I was brought to hell and escaped using my wits, Taking risks similar to cutting open your wrists, I never attempted suicide, though the thought crossed my mind, Now I stand the test of time while staring at the hourglass, And I can’t help but feel that mans era has past, So I compose meandering within the solitude of my shell, Attempting to cast forbidden sorcery spells. It’s like writing a book with no pages to spare, It’s like composing philosophy when nobody really cares, It’s like studying history when nothing will really change, It’s like being an anthropologist when all of the subjects are deranged. I devote myself now to the study of man, Sit by the wayside, devising new plans, It may burn to watch society rip itself apart, Like so many beasts acting like a pack of sharks, With the scent of blood hovering in the water around them, I will search until I find the smarter ones among them, And I will sing them a song to wake them up from the conundrum, Walking the block with a megaphone, attempting to lull them, Out of their matrix like sleep, that may be a cliché, But I think it’s an apt one, so what else is there to say? It’s like being a muse when there’s nobody to listen, It’s like comprehending god across a void like schism, It’s like being a victim of your own life’s decisions, It’s like playing basketball when you would rather be fishing. |
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viking_metal Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337In a Jeep, Minnesota. |
Threw? Most of this is too wordy, and hard to read. Poem has potential, rework it and post it again. |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Too wordy? Sorry, but there is no changing that. I can explain the meanings of the wordy words if you would like. Rework it? Rework it how exactly? |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
some lines try saying it simpler if you can. Are there any lines that you could write simpler or showing not telling? |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
I think that the wordy-ness comes from the repetition. S1 and S5 are fine by me, but I don't need 10 lines devoted to "It's like....." nor, "I was, I stand, I never, etc..." Do we need all of that? Could you say it in two lines rather than 15? Length for the sake of being long is not worth it. If everyline is indespensible, then fine. I'm not sure that all are here. CS |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
(digital sigh) Not to be belligerent, I know I am seeking critique here BUT...This was not written long for longs sake...This is meant to be sung, or rapped as it were, hence the length. I am afraid you succumbed to the same mistake I made in Essorants most recent post, by misconstruing another medium to be a poem. Again, this is meant to be rapped. Thank you, Rhia and ChristianSpeaks for your criticism. |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
Well here we come to the crossing of two paths. Are Tupac, Snoop, Eminem, and the Ying Yang Twins considered poets? Additionally, what about John Lennon, John Legend, or John Denver? Is there a difference between rap, lyric, and poetry? cs |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Well, I suppose the real difference between those three mediums you listed is the rap/lyrics are set to music, while poetry is not. You guys will probobly tear this argument apart, but imho, music can be poetic, but poetry cannot be music. I do not consider Tupac, Snoop, Eminem, or Ying Yang twins as poetically viable, because they do not rap or write lyrics about anything substantial. Rather, they write about how much money they have, how many women they pimp, how they want to kill somebody, and so forth. There is some genuinely good rap/poetry out there: Aesop Rock, Typical Cats, Deltron, and Immortal Technique come to mind. These artists speak about social issues, comment on pop culture, weave futuristic tales through their words. John Lennon: Definitely a poet. John Legend: Never heard of him. John Denver: Heard of him, but haven't heard his music, so I cannot judge. |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Tupac, Snoop, Eminem, or Ying Yang twins You haven't looked at some of the lyrics by these people then hauh. REad the lyrics, how is that not substantial? Sample but look up rest * Tupac songs Look up lyrics to Soulja Words of wisdom. If my Homie calls Trapped Rebel of the underground Eminem lyrics Mockingbird SAMPLE OF WORDS OF WISDOM They shine upon the strength of an nation Conquer the enemy on with education Protect thy self, reach with what you wanna do Know thy self, teach what we been through On with the knowledge of the place, then No one will ever oppress this race again No Malcolm X in my history text SAMPLE FOR IF MY HOMIE CALLS Who am I to judge another brother, only on his cover I'd be no different than the other H-to-the-O-to-the-M-to-the-I-to-the-E I'm down to the E-N-D Cause it's a fall in no time at all I'm down for y'all, when my homies call Word, if my homies call SAMPLE FOR TRAPPED They got me trapped Can barely walk tha city streets Without a cop harrassing me, searching me Then asking my identity Hands up, throw me up against tha wall Didn't do a thing at all Sample from Mockingbird Now hush little baby, don't you cry Everything's gonna be alright Stiffen that upper lip up little lady, i told ya Daddy's here to hold ya through the night I know mommy's not here right now and we don't know why We feel how we feel inside It may seem a little crazy, pretty baby But i promise momma's gon' be alright I'mma sing for you I'll do anything for you to see you smile Also look up lyrics to Runaway love by Ludacris and Jesus walks by kanye west and Diamonds from sierra leone by Kanye west |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
I stand corrected Rhia. Those artists do indeed have lyrics with stronger messages than the ones I assumed they had. However, I would point to the more sophisticated nature of the lyrics of other artists, who use "wordy words" and still manage to mantain a good rhythm. (that is not to denigrate those other artists you pointed out, its just matter of taste  ) I break it down with critical language and spiritual anguish The Judas I hang with, the guilt of betraying Christ You murdered and stole his religion, and painting him white Translated in psychologically tainted philosophy Conservative political right wing, ideology Glued together sloppily, the blasphemy of a nation Got my back to the wall, cause I'm facin' assassination - Immortal Technique, "4'th Branch" Well that'll sip the blood of merry men that'll grace holiday carols when the merry ends barrel past the auto craft, exhale into final raft and pirate your local rain puddle torturous try to shake pilot fish off your dorsal fin lets dive through the archives, synax on frantic planets, stamp it with a noteable brand to reap the profit see i don't know hell but I've read about it often sounds like a dope concept gone wrong. Aesop Rock, "Take Me To the Basement" See I was born with two tongues but no green card my skin marked by the immigration narratives of my people drifting a-part Of the two worlds I reside in the high yellow phantasm, of an undiscovered future I am to breach the chasm between my mother's memory and my hazy prison I so knew Languages off the scraps of my hand-me-down clothes I grip with ten toes the type or types are putting fact in funk deliver colder than statistics, bubble hot like a Cali trunk I dwell in the fertile valley between ghosts and history subvert the dogma lefty-loosy righty-tighty every time I speak Conjunction junction what's ya function my assumption that the fearful face of my future would fall and then my punching is in question. Typical Cats, "What You Thought Hops" Yo its three thousand thirty, I want yall to meet deltron zero, hero, not no small feat its all heat in this day and age, i rage your grave, anything it takes to save the day nueromancer, perfect blend of technology and magic use my rappin so you all could see the hazards plus entertainment where many are brainless we cultivated the lost art of study and i brought a buddy automator harder slayer fascinating combinations cyber warlords are activating abominations arm a nation with hatred we ain't with that we high-tech archeologists searching for nicknacks composing musical stimpacks the song crack the motor what you think you rappin for? I used to be a mech soldier but I didn't respect orders I had to step forward, tell them this ain't for us living in a post-apocalyptic world morbid and horrid the secrets of the past they horded now we just borded on a futuristic spacecraft no mistakes black its our music we must take back. Deltron, "3030" |
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SilentLady New Member
since 2007-03-02
Posts 4California, USA |
I think the first stanza alone could be a poem... or just think about cutting out the stanza's that start with I'ts like... and like the frist person that responded... i also think that the rhythm was good in the first stanza but it just went down after that... that's the only thing i think you'd have to work on. =) |
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ChristianSpeaks Member
since 2006-05-18
Posts 396Iowa, USA |
But you do have to admit that this isn't a forum called, "Passions in Song Writing." The way this one stands I can't buy into it. CS |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Fair enough Christian. However, what do you mean by not "buying into it"? You mean you don't think what I wrote could be lyrics, or you don't believe in the idea that the forums can be used to post lyrics? |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
Aw, c'mon guy. "But at least I can feast on the emissions of the beast?" Please. There's a Zen notion that first thought is best thought. I guess that works if you are writing koans. If you are writing poetry to be spoken or read off the page, editing -- not self-censorship -- is useful. Use your ear. This poem or rapped piece is all over the place. To much going on for something written in relatively straight talk. Work the good bits, and there are indeed good bits. As to "selling copyrights," Van Morrison has a great song line about "puking on the sidewalk over the contract you just signed." Have you really been there? Maybe so, but the way you put it is not that convincing. Don't quit. Work your "work." Everything is always in progress. Jim |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
Thanks for responding oceanvu2. Honestly, I find you response to be somewhat cryptic. How do your draw a connection between zen koans (which forced me to look up a new word by the way- kudos), and "editing", "self-censorship", and using "my ear"? I would appreciate some clarification on that subject. The copyright portion of the poem is not to be taken literally. I am not a published writer, nor do I entirely aspire to be (ambivilence you see ) Vaguely, its a metaphor for selling my soul for some peace (of mind). Perhaps should have clarified that (or even remove it all together). And perhaps also should have clarified the "emissions of the beast" thing, if it isn't clear already. But I will leave you to make clear whether or not that is clear. I would also appreciate clarification on what you mean by "straight-talk". Are you refering to the language used in the poem in contrast to the ideas? Or am I completely off in that assumption? Honestly, your post has gotten me thinking about a lot of things Oceanvu2, some of which has to do with this particular piece, some of which does not. Thank you for that. |
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oceanvu2 Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066Santa Monica, California, USA |
OK, valid comments on my comments. To try to clarify, lets look at: "But at least I can feast on the emissions of the beast." Internal rhyme is useful but tricky. It's a poetic artifice, and to my mind, works best when the rhyme is subtle, slightly off, and startling in effect. What you got here is a trite useage applied to a good thought. On the Zen notion of "first thought best thought:" Ginsberg, Corso, Jack Spicer, Jess, Gary Snyder and the Black Mountain School buy into this. But I will bet you a nickel you haven't read Ginsberg since "Howl" and "The Sunflower Sutras," or Corso since "Gasoline." Look at Ferlinghetti's "The Secret Meaning of Things." The difference in "craft" is astonishing, though he also started with first thought, best thought, unedited, unself-censored words that were wrought into poetry. I don't know whether he rewrote in his head or on the page, but his articulate and concise presentation of the "noise" -- the flow of imagery in his head, came out as a piece. You can't see the preliminaries. This is the art. Self censorship differs from self editing in that when you self-censor, you cut at your heart. When poets self-edit, that is, go through their internal mishagosh, they substitue effect for emotion. This poem or rapped piece is all over the place. To much going on for something written in relatively straight talk. Work the good bits, and there are indeed good bits. As to the "copyright" line, yeah, take it out. It is not part of your authentic experience and stands out as such. Lots of other metaphors available. Hope this helps a bit. You might want to look at my post on this forum regarding "constructive critism." It's a poem, not a rant. Helps keep things in perspective. Best, Jim UseTheIllusion Member since 02-06-2006 Posts 166 In a state of limbo 17 posted 03-02-2007 10:02 PM Inappropriate content? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for responding oceanvu2. Honestly, I find you response to be somewhat cryptic. How do your draw a connection between zen koans (which forced me to look up a new word by the way- kudos), and "editing", "self-censorship", and using "my ear"? I would appreciate some clarification on that subject. The copyright portion of the poem is not to be taken literally. I am not a published writer, nor do I entirely aspire to be (ambivilence you see ) Vaguely, its a metaphor for selling my soul for some peace (of mind). Perhaps should have clarified that (or even remove it all together). And perhaps also should have clarified the "emissions of the beast" thing, if it isn't clear already. But I will leave you to make clear whether or not that is clear. I would also appreciate clarification on what you mean by "straight-talk". Are you refering to the language used in the poem in contrast to the ideas? Or am I completely off in that assumption? Honestly, your post has gotten me thinking about a lot of things Oceanvu2, some of which has to do with this particular piece, some of which does not. Thank you for that. |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
I revised the poem without destroying what I feel is best about it. And that includes that "It's like" lines. Giving the demons the cold shoulder, Quitting cold turkey is more bold, Sold my soul for nothing in return, The burning in my spirit itches for release, But at least I can leach off of my own suffering, And channel my energies into something constructive, Disruptive daemons scatter my brain, So I increase my efforts double time, That is why I choose to rhyme, Instead of free write, A copout, like drinking beer, When brandy is in sight, So I went out to buy something strong to drink, And set out to play the game, Which I lost in a wink. It’s like skating on thin ice and jumping through the cracks, It like flying a plane at night during a UFO attack, It’s like living in a shack outside of an epicurean mansion, It’s like walking through a portal towards the fifth dimension. I was brought to hell and escaped using my wits, Taking risks similar to cutting open your wrists, I never attempted suicide, though my future seemed stark, So I closed the blinds in my apartment, to find myself in the dark, While I compose meandering within the solitude of my shell, Attempting to cast forbidden sorcery spells. It’s like writing a book with no pages to spare, It’s like composing philosophy when nobody really cares, It’s like studying history when nothing will really change, It’s like being an anthropologist when all of the subjects are deranged. I devote myself now to the study of man, Sit by the wayside, all the while devising plans, It may hurt me to watch society rip itself apart, Like a cannibalistic pack of great white sharks, With the scent of blood hovering in the water around them, I will search until I find the smarter ones among them, And I will sing them a song to wake them up from the conundrum, Walking the block with a megaphone, attempting to lull them, Out of their matrix like sleep, that may be a cliché, But I think it’s an apt one, so what else is there to say? It’s like being a muse when there’s nobody to listen, It’s like comprehending god across a void like schism, It’s like being a victim of your own life’s decisions, It’s like playing basketball when you would rather be fishing. |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
What is a daemon |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
To my knowledge, a Daemon is the source of great insight, sort of like the way a Muse endows its subject with artistic vision. |
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viking_metal Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337In a Jeep, Minnesota. |
A daemon is also a mythical pet, half of one's self. A soulmate that grows and changes as you do. It can shapeshift when you're a child but as you mature it loses the ability to do so. As you become "who you are" if you will. "The Golden Compass" is an amazing book. Everyone read it. Now. Valedictions, -Paul |
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viking_metal Senior Member
since 2007-02-02
Posts 1337In a Jeep, Minnesota. |
I meant in the first post, which I must apologize for having not replied to sooner, is that there are too many words in each line. Too many stumbling blocks. Try reading it aloud and fixing what doesn't sound right aloud, THEN reposting. I can read the "wordy" words just fine! Haha! I sounded rather harsh in my first post, apologies! Valedictions, -Paul |
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rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
I read it , just finished. Thats why I asked I wondered if Illusion had a different definition than that for it. Loved it, especially the end I love Pan in the book. |
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UseTheIllusion Member
since 2006-02-06
Posts 223In a state of limbo |
"Golden Compass"? What's it about? |
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