»
Archives
»
Critical Analysis #2
»
Ivy
| Critical Analysis #2 |
|
Ivy |
|
|
rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
A lit up orb of yellow light let glow bring forth its golden shine. Illuminating the brick wall with Ivy leaves, creeping green vines. Tearing apart wall’s foundation. poking tendrils through open cracks. adding dew drops to the dampness, it will weaken then break in half. At last, square bricks chalky red fall, crumbling down, slow sets of motion. Long-standing, masters garden wall devoured by a plant, ivy . |
||
| © Copyright 2006 rhia_5779 - All Rights Reserved | |||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Syllabic verse with eight syllables per line - well done. You've used content and form to build something with which to work, now the hard bit, you have to turn it from a poem into a good poem. To start to do that you need to revisit the content and make it more interesting to the reader. The content of a poem includes the story (what you're trying to say), the parts or acts (think start, middle and end) and the method of telling. You have the first two, you're trying to describe Ivy destroying a brick wall, the start introduces the Ivy the middle introduces the wall and the end sees the walls demise. The only problem is that the method of telling is a little weak, a reader will just think, "Ivy, wall, wall destroyed - so what?" the reader needs to be given additional incentives to ensure that he or she continues to read, after all there are a lot of poems out there, you need to provide a hook to drag them into your poem and something to keep them interested when they get there. In an online Forum if you can provide those things the reader may reward you with a nice reply, they may even say '"very good poem" and actually mean it. So what interests a reader? In the case of a metrical poem the 'music' of the meter may be enough, in a rhymed poem using clever and unusual rhymes might do the trick in some of the stricter forms simply adhering to that form might be enough. In unrhymed syllabic verse you have the content and the form, because it doesn't have a good rhyme scheme or meter it has to create interest in the only thing it has left - The method of telling. I like to keep things easy and the easiest thing I can think of is not doing something, fortunately there's a method of telling that relies specifically on that very thing. All you need to do is NOT tell the reader about the ivy or the wall, tell the story without mentioning either directly. Here's an example: Cribbed in the ocean of a mothered world; Bound by the belly and the tide, The angel counts the seconds on the throw of cells Unhindered by the curse of being blind. Curled in the crooking of his shepherdess; Soothed by the wooing and the heat, The page forms unwritten turning sap to flesh And caul to quick, all kicking in his haste. Suddenly the exit and the entrance Two strangers tied but yet to meet In tender clutches smiles unleash the tears to dream All savoured in the hunt for breath and breast. Soft swaddled kisses couched with pure relief All counts found true of pigs and pokes. The gods of Adam, wrapped within their heathen pride, Both tickled by the giving and the gift. This is a syllabic poem, it's not a very good one but it just about manages to tell the story without mentioning the main characters directly. I think your poem could be improved by using this method. Once you've got the method of telling worked out you need to add a bit more interest - that's easily achieved with a little pixy dust. If you're interested I can try to explain how that works too.  |
||
|
rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Ok, I am interested. |
||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
Rhia, quote: Of course you are, you wouldn't be here if you weren’t interested, but there's two things you need to bear in mind. The first is that I may or may not know what the heck I'm talking about so please don't take everything I say as gospel, as far as poetic acumen is concerned you and I are practically standing on the same square so if I say something you don't agree with I'd appreciate your input, it may even help me to improve my writing. The other thing you need to be aware of is that this Forum isn't exactly designed for one to one discussions on how to write poetry; it's primarily designed to improve particular pieces through group involvement and, at least to my mind, that's a good thing. I don't mind explaining how I write poetry as long as you realise that everyone else in this forum has the right to do exactly the same, and I hope that they continue to do just that. All you have to do is take what you can use from wherever you find it and disregard the rest. I'll be back later to ramble on about how I use pixy dust and other devices. |
||
|
Grinch Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929Whoville |
The application of pixy dust. Pixy dust may seem magical but the reality is it’s nothing more than a bit of sparkle to keep the reader interested and adding sparkle is easy. Remenber I said you need a hook to get people to read your poem? Well part of the hook is the title and the other part is how you start your poem. A lit up orb of yellow light In your first line you've introduced a light, told me it's lit, which lights are apt to be and also that it's a yellow orb which is the first image someone would get when they imagine a light. Light, lit and yellow orb are all synonymous with the subject - a light - in effect you've used the whole of the first line to make me, the reader picture a light. You could have used the first line as more of a hook to get the reader curious enough to read the second line, to do that you could take the easy option I gave earlier - don't mention the light. Of the three yellow orb is the most vague description of a light, if you use that the reader won't be sure, he\she may think a wall light but they may just as easily think the moon or a star or halo or a candle flame or even the eye of a tiger. The most important thing is they won't know for sure, however there's a fair chance they may discover what type of yellow orb it is if the read the second line. Hey presto your reader is on to the second line. let glow bring forth its golden shine. Ok, you're giving me a description of whatever you were talking about in the first line without narrowing the possibilities of what that thing may be, the reader may go on to the next line or they may get bored and give up reading. What you could do to get them to the next line is tell them what the yellow orb is doing, if it's lighting a path for instance the possibilities are reduced, it's unlikely to be a tigers eye or a halo but they have to read on to find out what it is. Introducing a path in the second line has an added bonus, readers of poetry are a curious breed, when you mention path they'll start thinking things like, where is the path? Where's it going? Is it a garden path or a woodland path? All these questions tempt the reader on to the next line, of course you can be doubly cunning and not mention the path directly, if you describe it cleverly enough it could be a road, a river, a ribbon a snake (I wonder if the yellow orb IS a tigers eye after all) etc. The trick when doing this is to make the parts describe the whole but all the time tempting the reader to read on, by the end the reader will know it's a light, a path, a wall and ivy, but don't be surprised or upset if some of them think it's a tigers eye, a snake, a temple and the jungle the poem will be just as good for them either way. |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Rhia Good work! You met the challenge very well. I agree with many points Grinch makes, although I wouldn't worry too much about content right now. The more you practice with structure the better you shall get at expressing the content you wish in that structure. The main improvement I see is that you have very good balance of both here. It is concise and clearly understood by the reader. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Scott, Pope, and many other best poets did exactly what you are doing here, Rhia, except they also included playing with that other thing we know as meter. Do you want to go the next step and look at how you may give meter to your poem? |
||
JenniferMaxwell
since 2006-09-14
Posts 2423 |
Nice work on this Rhia! Like water wears through stone, ivy crumbles brick. |
||
|
moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Rhia Ahh - I see you've been busy since I've been away. Great work on this. Can you see already how much your work has improved now you're concentrating on "showing" rather than simply telling? and now that you've moved away from "self centered" writing. This is streets ahead of Voices and Fallen Angels. Ok, next thing, I was proposing to send you Workshop 2/3 today which you might remember from my last e-mail was going to use the poem you send me a week or so back "Sailor's Doom" as a basic material. If you recall we were going to work with "meter" also look at how "modifiers" can affect a poem. However I see you posted "Sailor's Doom" here at CA and already you've got some good advice so perhaps it's best, now that other people are taking a serious interest in helping you, if you just go with the flow in the forum, if that's what you want to do. As many have pointed out, this isn't a teaching forum, so I don't propose to "teach" here. I'd be happy to carry on in e-mail if you want but in order to avoid confusion I'd prefer to work with different material in e-mail. Plus if you have 3 or 4 different people all trying to tell you about meter at the same time but in a slightly different way it could get overwhelming. Have a think about what you want to do, and let me know. Oh, and don't forget to do your critiques in CA - now that you're writing much better stuff I'm sure other people would love to hear what you have to say about their poems - in detail! M PS Incidentally the other piece you sent me, "Mirror Image", I think is a step backwards. Poems about a person looking in a mirror are almost by definition cliched, and difficult to make original and interesting. Try building on what you've learned in this thread and what't we've covered in the earlier workshop e-mails. Take care. M |
||
|
rhia_5779 Senior Member
since 2006-06-09
Posts 1334California |
Moonbeam- I know Mirror Image was back to what I still write in Teen Forum. I told you that. Just wanted to see what you thought. Its hard not to still write like that. I do, but I won't post it on CA, and waste your time because the poems in Teen and that one are not ones I am really trying to improve on they are written to express how I feel nothing else. Thank you to everyone for your comments, something to think about during my (boring) first period of science, and english tomorrow. Moonbeam what you suggested for email sounds good too. I do crittique, just recently more in Teen, not really sopposed do that type of crittique but me , Stargal, and a couple of others are starting to crittique for real in Teen. Here some of the poems just seem out of my league to even crittique. I don't understand half of it. I will try to crittique more though. |
||
|
moonbeam
since 2005-12-24
Posts 2356 |
Rhia What I think is that it’s fine to write what you feel in abstract terms, just so long as you don’t expect people who read lots of good contemporary poetry to think it’s poetry!!! I think we need to discuss where we’re going next in e-mail Rhia. I’m not clear what you want to do exactly. Rhia NO poem that’s ever been written is “out of your league” to critique. Remember that! Poems aren’t some jigsaw to be solved or some code to be broken. If you’re an intelligent or diligent reader you can always find some little thing to say about a poem. Absolutely the last thing you need to worry about is whether you “understand” it. There is no such thing as a “right” interpretation of a poem. Remember the critiquing guidelines I sent you. I’ll re-send if you can’t find them. Believe me I have read some of your critiques in teen and they are waaaaayyyyyyyyy better than some of the fluffy huggy nonsense I’ve read in this forum I’m sorry to say. Have confidence Rhia, you’ve already progressed a lot. See ya. M |
||
|
Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
[deleted] [This message has been edited by Essorant (10-12-2006 01:50 AM).] |
||
|
|
⇧ top of page ⇧ |
|
| All times are ET (US). All dates are in Year-Month-Day format. | ||
