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Critical Analysis #2
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Magnus
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0 posted 2004-02-08 11:11 AM


Oh love, dear love, of water’s splashing kiss.
Of grasping hands at light’s caress of dawn.
As breath filled rains in softly flowing bliss,
awaken eyes before a breath is drawn.

A step onto the carpet filled with spring
to find the leaf of clover's fame and luck.
A penny thrown into the fountain’s ring
as wishes form upon each petal’s pluck.

And when the falling pittance is not heads
and leaves upon the clover are but three,
will love be found or rip one’s heart to shreds
as stars reflect a moonlit reverie?

For dreams shall give away the wayward heart
and pennies in the fount are but a start.
----------------------------------------------------

Here is the original piece prior to revision,
that all might see it and the changes as well.
I should have realized that it would be best
to leave as is until all have commented.  Thanx
for the input...
----------------------------------------------------
Oh love, dear love, of water’s splashing kiss.
Of grasping  hands in light’s caress of dawn.
Of breath filled rains in turbid flowing bliss,
awake at morn before the newborn fawn.

A step onto the carpet filled with spring
to find the clover leaf for fame and luck.
A penny thrown into the fountain’s ring
as wishes form upon each petal’s pluck

If not the coin found is lying heads
and leaves upon the clover are but three
Will love be found or stripped, one’s heart to shreds
as stars arch down from out the heavens free.

For dreams shall give away the wayward heart
and pennies in the fount are but a start.



[This message has been edited by Magnus (02-10-2004 08:07 PM).]

© Copyright 2004 Barry J. Tackett - All Rights Reserved
Grover
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since 2004-01-27
Posts 1967
London, ON, Canada
1 posted 2004-02-08 11:24 AM


I enjoyed this sonnet.. it's not the easiest thing to write. It's apparent you've honed your skills. Very good job. Liked it alot! Grover.
Michelle_loves_Mike
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2 posted 2004-02-08 11:24 AM


personaly, I had a hard time following this one,,,a little to jumbled?
Michelle

I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike

Magnus
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3 posted 2004-02-08 11:28 AM


Thanx Grover...

Michelle,  noted...and considering your thoughts as well.  thank you.

Tim
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since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794

4 posted 2004-02-08 11:56 AM


I will preface by indicating I do not have formal or informal training in literary matters beyond what I come across reading here and there.

I think your meter is pretty good except for the third stanza.  First line is off the way I read it as well as the third.

The third could be corrected by changing stripped to strip and removing the comma in my reading.

The word turbid seems out of place when coupled with bliss.

Again, just my opinion, but at times the continuity of your piece seems to get a bit off kilter by having to come up with a rhyming line.  For instance, the end of the first stanza, before the newborn fawn, just seems a bit of push to get your rhyme.

(a very nice line by the way, but just seems to be pasted in)

I enjoyed the poem and its shows effort which is always important.  You can take my two cents and either throw em in the fountain or leave em on the ground.

Those are my impressions as a non literary type.

Fine effort.
Sonnets are tough

Magnus
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5 posted 2004-02-08 12:09 PM


Tim, valid points....I too felt that the
fawn line was forced....I was stumbling some
in an attempt to find the appropriate rhyme
that fit and rhymed as well...

Trust me,  your non-literary instincts are
fairly well on track...  Nope, they are
not easy...but they are fun.

Magnus
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6 posted 2004-02-08 12:22 PM


Ok,  I massaged it a little bit,  still some
hiccups to be quelled as yet,  but let's
see where this heads to....

Tim
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since 1999-06-08
Posts 1794

7 posted 2004-02-08 12:26 PM


first line of your third stanza...
Magnus
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8 posted 2004-02-08 12:39 PM


tweaked,  whatcha think now??  1st of 3rd...

A hard one to get the duh-DUM...so to speak in pentameter....

Gotta get rid of one of the "found"....repeated..

cynicsRus
Senior Member
since 2003-06-06
Posts 591
So Cal So Cool!
9 posted 2004-02-08 01:09 PM


Revising while the thread is still being added to, does little good for anyone else’s learning experience. Without leaving the original piece along with the revised one, it’s just a bit too difficult to decipher exactly what changes have taken place.
Magnus
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10 posted 2004-02-08 01:27 PM


Thanx cynicsRus,  a very good and valid
point...

Not A Poet
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since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
11 posted 2004-02-08 05:14 PM


Thanks for putting the original back in. I was wondering what Tim had been drinking or what he was reading. Along with the original, he makes perfectly good sense. I don't see how strip in L11 changes the meter as opposed to strip but its meaning seems to fit better (more later) and the comma did need to go.

As for impressions, I very much liked it. But I am known to be something of a sonnet junkie anyway. I see a few technicalities I would change. The periods ending L1 and L2 should be commas. Otherwise you have a whole set of sentence fragments. If awake in L4 is a verb then you are all right. If it is an adjective then that whole first quatrain is still an incomplete sentence without a verb. I prefer to read it as a verb.

The period at L6 also causes L5 & L6 to be a fragment, again missing any predicate. Was L8 intended to have a period? I think it should since you start the turn at L9. If you do end the sentence at L8 then the whole quatrain is still a fragment. It is just a description or an elaborate adjective. It needs something more to complete it. Some rewording or diddling here and there should make it right. I must say that it is an excellent image and most enjoyable but will be even better if you fix this one flaw.

Back on L11, it reads a little awkward to me. I think it is the mix of active and passive actions in the same line. Intuitively, I want it to read "will love be found or will..." or something more like that. I don't have a good suggestion yet but I would try to reword so as to eliminate this potential confusion. Finally, L12 either sounds a little stilted or like a forced rhyme. It starts out all right but to end with "from out the heavens free" when the rest of the sonnet is written in speaking language (although beautifully worded speaking language) just does not mold smoothly.

I particularly enjoyed your couplet.

JMHO,
Pete

Magnus
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12 posted 2004-02-08 05:56 PM


Thanx Pete,

You have been most helpful,  I agree with
much if not all you have related to me.
And I agree that there are some spots that
could be smoothed out somewhat.  I will see
what I can do with what you and Tim have
given me.  Thanx for your time that you
have given this.  

Barry

Grover
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since 2004-01-27
Posts 1967
London, ON, Canada
13 posted 2004-02-08 06:38 PM


Great work, [again I say it!] Magnus! I guess that's why I write mostly freeverse. Grover.
steavenr
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since 2003-11-17
Posts 4058

14 posted 2004-02-08 11:03 PM


really love the changes you've made...I had commented on the couplet in the open forum, and I am certainly glad that you felt compelled to keep that intact.
Magnus
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15 posted 2004-02-09 07:12 PM


OK gang,  I have made a few changes...let
me know what you feel?  

Susan Caldwell
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16 posted 2004-02-10 01:36 PM


:::sneaking in::::::

Oh this is so yummy!

cynicsRus
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So Cal So Cool!
17 posted 2004-02-10 05:08 PM


With Tim’s and Pete’s accurate analyses,  you managed to bring this a long way from its initial metric awkwardness in a very short time. The fact is, it still has a few problems in my opinion.

The first is L3. It just doesn’t flow off the tongue very smoothly as written. This is beside the fact that the rhymes, kiss and bliss lack originality. They are extremely commonplace in the poetry world.

Luck and pluck is another rhyme that seems stretched as well, while, “wishes form upon each petal’s pluck” seems a bit cumbersome to me..

In L11, the phrase, “strip one’s heart to shreds” seems a slightly modified version of the hackneyed slang term: “ripped him/her to shreds”, (I believe there was a Blondie song by that name), which brings up another minor point: Shreds are the result of having been ripped rather than stripped.

I feel L12 is still no better than the original. It appears that you’re trying too hard to construct a complicated line when something simpler may be more effective in conveying your point--since it is the couplet anyway, that is meant to sum up the piece by way of its pithy or satiric quality.

I agree, the couplet is quite nice btw.

I also agree, this is a pretty good attempt overall and I commend you for posting on a critique forum while attempting to polish.

That said, Magnus, take or toss my own comments as you will.


Sid @ www.cynicsRus.com www.primetimerhyme.com

[This message has been edited by cynicsRus (02-10-2004 11:51 PM).]

Magnus
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18 posted 2004-02-10 07:51 PM


I am quite pleased that a few of you guys took
as much time as you did to give me a very
accurate and constructive analysis of my
poem.  Yes,  it was not an easy write,  and
I did struggle with the ending rhyming words
in the areas that you mentioned.  I agree
with the thought about originality,  perhaps
I should delve into a poetry dictionary and
find some more unique but suitable rhymes
that will fit the lines and make it more
of an original piece.  (I am aware of this
being an area that a poet should strive for,)
but without laboring over this piece for
perhaps many hours or days...I slipped it in
that WE might learn from it....and I hope
you guys have seen that you have not deterred
me from my poetic jaunts by your critique.
I welcome it....How else will we learn?

You all put a lot of effort into giving
me an honest analysis....I thank you much
for what you have said...I hope that some
have learned from this experience as well.

Pete...thanx much
Tim....Ditto
Sid?  CynicsRus....likewise....and I will
take what you and the others have given me
and see how much more I can polish it up.

Thanx for your reviews and kind remarks...


Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
19 posted 2004-02-21 06:21 AM


Here's a quick scan:

Oh LOVE, dear LOVE, of WAter’s SPLASHing KISS.
Of GRASPing HANDS at LIGHT'S caRESS of DAWN.
As BREATH filled RAINS in SOFTly FLOWing BLISS,
aWAKen EYES beFORE a BREATH is DRAWN.

a STEP ONto the CARpet FILLED with SPRING

--This follows pretty standard metrics, but I find myself straining to move the stress to 'to'. It's possible, but I think it reads just fine without forcing it. The anapest actually picks up the tempo a bit, a nice move when discussing movement.

to FIND the LEAF of CLOver's FAME and LUCK.
A PENny THROWN inTO the FOUNTtain’s RING

--it follows quite natually here.

as WISHes uPON each PETal's PLUCK.

And WHEN the FALling PITtance IS not HEADS

--My favorite line. By placing the stress on 'is' you slow everything down -- a shift in meaning happens as well.

and LEAVES uPON the CLOver ARE but THREE,
will LOVE be FOUND or RIP one’s HEART to SHREDs
as STARS reFLECT a MOONlit REVerIE?

--That last stress is very slight, but it works.

For DREAMS shall GIVE aWAY the WAYward HEART
and PENnies IN the FOUNT are BUT a START.

Strong points:

Good rhythm, good imagery, not static, you've actually created a tension between hope and loss.

Weak points: tried and true imagery (huh, but I just said they were good? The way you've done them is good, that you used them is unoriginal). The use of 'love', 'heart', 'oh' etc. and inversion, you use 'are but' twice overpower any subtlety you may want to portray here. The first line, in particular, causes problems because many readers would probably not read any further.  

A suggestion or an example of what I mean might be to change the word 'fount' to 'font', a shift in meaning, bringing both images together with the idea of writing love poetry in general. From that idea, alone, you might want to rework that whole idea and see where it goes.

Still, I enjoyed it. Hell, it's better than some of Pete's sonnets (Sorry, Pete, ) and certainly better than most my attempts in this form.


Klassy Lassy
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since 2005-06-28
Posts 2187
Oregon
20 posted 2006-02-19 12:58 PM


I have no experience writing sonnets, but you do a beautiful job.  Reading both versions, I can see the improvement in the second.  I expecailly like the first verse.    The others are good, but that one really comes together well.  I am enjoying your work very much.


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