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| Critical Analysis #2 |
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tecoyah Member
since 2003-11-16
Posts 83NY |
Hatred burnt soul ember mental fire broken passion toasted eyre lack of vision crooked path wasted mission think I'll pass Love glowing passion perfect heart sentimental work of art goddess chosen child of light soul controller share my life |
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| © Copyright 2003 Tecoyah - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
quote: Hey Tecoyah. Hm...I have a problem with your work I'm afraid...what I say to you may seem harsh, but I'm going to be very honest with you. Why? Well, let's see...you've attempted an exploration of the classic binary oppositions of love and hate. Really, you've failed. What exactly have you said? Not much - just a string of words. None of which particularly convey to me either love or hate. Let's look at your very first line: 'Burnt soul ember' - for one thing, this could just as easily relate to love. But really, this tells me ~nothing~. 'Mental fire'? - You could have been stung by a bee  'Broken passion' - again, this could relate to love couldn't it. 'Toasted eyre' - whisper...you haven't just put eyre in here to rhyme with fire have you? Sure sounds like it. What on earth is a toasted eyre anyway? 'Lack of vision' - go to an optometrist??? 'Crooked path' - a nice stroll through the woods, or a metaphor without an actual metaphor... 'Think I'll pass' - what? What exactly are you passing? Your latest exam? Or a love gone bad...? Can you understand where I'm coming from, Tec... Not once have you said 'why' or 'how' in relation to any of these ideas/images...yet somehow a toasted eyre is supposed to relate to hatred. It doesn't. Let's look at 'love' now. Now, it's easier to relate your ideas/images to love, mostly because they're all complete cliches. 'glowing passion' - ah yes, the cliche to end all cliche. 'perfect heart' - the words perfect and heart together in the same line, well...my honest reaction - cringe. Let's think about this - if you believe that love equals a perfect heart life will not be kind to you. 'sentimental' - sentimental what? 'work of art' - now, is it a sentimental work of art, and what is the work of art anyway? Love, or the perfect heart? 'goddess chosen' - what? The sentimental perfect heart, the love, the owner of the perfect heart? By now, I'm completely lost and all your attempted linkages are failing miserably. 'child of light' - see above. 'soul controller' - this I found interesting because it made me ask a question - what does love have to do with control? Do you mean that the subject's soul is now controlled by the owner of the perfect heart? Unfortunately, soul controller sounds like the name of a very bad Play Station game... 'share my life' - again, what does an invitation to share a life have to do with control? And just who or what do you wish to share your life? A perfect heart? Love? A soul controller? I'm not going to attempt a re-write for you on this because, frankly, I believe it is unsalvageable. My advice - write some whole sentences first. Look at poetic devices like simile and metaphor and play with them to get a feel of writing poetry. Take one of your lines, burnt soul ember for instance and think of a way to convey what that means to you in relation to hate...then find a way to link another image to that. one line images are not working for you yet, in time they might...but start wider first.  K |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Tecoyah Hi there, Severn gave a good tale of points to muse upon. This is a very cramp style you've chosen to write within and I think that is what hinders the reading most of all. It just needs more breathing room, and better flow from one line to the next. If you loosen it up, I'm sure almost everything else will start coming out fairly naturally. I hope that makes sense Keep writing. [This message has been edited by Essorant (11-30-2003 01:22 AM).] |
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tecoyah Member
since 2003-11-16
Posts 83NY |
Hey severn,interesting take on poetry, guess it differs slightly from my own....this is a good thing. anyway, while you may interpret these lines as lacking meaning(which would seem plausible in a quick read) perhaps a secondary line by line may enlighten. Or mayhap activate your imagination.....wouldnt want to do that in a poetic setting , now would we. burnt soul ember= a soul, or spirit that has failed to grow, and is dying...thus just an ember. mental fire= anger, very suprised you lacked the imagination to see this. broken passion= Yes, this could relate to love...obviously broken(read jealosy) toasted eyre= pissed off....but it did take me awhile to come up with the rhyme...guess you got me here. lack of vision= stupidity...seemed pretty obvious to me. crooked path=you gotta be kidding me....you honestly don't get this? think I'll pass= " I choose otherwise" I have no problem with a professional(or even honest) crit of my work...this just seemed a bit nasty, or as you put it"harsh". to continue; glowing passion= yes cliche, perhaps if you felt the glow you would enjoy this more. perfect heart= we are tlking about love...as in"someone in" this is hardly a stretch. sentimental= Again, are you kidding me?...this is about love work of art= that which the poem is in love with is the"work of art" goddess chosen=sorry...forgot about the christians.goddess is a term used by most religions for gaia, or earth. child of light= see above soul controller= gotta wonder if you have ever been in love....all these lines are meant to bring back feelings in the reader, you seem to have missed them all. share my life=I really find it hard to understand how anyone could fail to comprehend this line. In closing, while I enjoy critical evaluation of what I create and am at a point in my writting where such a bashing is of little effect. I would like to recommend that you tone down the ego and trashing for future crits, many people are sensitive about something as personal as art, and you may scar a poet. I cant see how it would be any more difficult for you to use a bit of positive reenforcement in your notation. |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
Hm. 'Do your worst' you say. Did you mean that, Tecoyah? Maybe not. Yet again I'm in the position of pointing something out - this is a critique forum, get used to it. Bashing? I think not, but then, you've missed all the points I've tried to make. How about you drop the sarcasm, drop the defensiveness, and read what I've written. Whether you take something away from it or not is your choice. I ask you - if all you are going to do is come back in here and justify all that you have written, then why on earth did you put your poem in here? K |
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tecoyah Member
since 2003-11-16
Posts 83NY |
dont think I asked for your worst but, I feel as though neither of us cares to listen to each other...I did read the crit and attempted to help you understand that an evaluation of your own attitude may be in order,,,by the way , aplologies for the sarcasm, it was unneeded to address my point. I have been recieving evaluations of my work for over fifteen years and I've rarely felt the urge for rebuttal, this is an exception due to the negative attitude , so plain in your crit, and the fact that you are in a position to effect many young writters. As this is obviously a futile plead, I will bow down before your ego and leave. have a pleasant day. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
What's the deal here with people trying out CRITICAL ANALYSIS then threatening to leave when they get their first critique that they don't like. Tecoyah, your critique message in your profile is, "Do your worst, make me my best." Were those not your words? Did someone else set up the profile for you? The purpose of this forum is critique. By nature, some of it is going to be negative. I don't think Severn wrote of or from a negative attitude at all. She did write a negative critique. That means, in her opinion, she found things in your poem she did not like. That's all it means. If you don't agree then, by all means, leave it as you wrote it. I don't think that will offend anyone. If you post a poem in this forum, expect some criticism (see another current thread to understand that criticism is not necessarily a negative word). If you intend to rebut anything you get except for the pats on the back then I submit that you are wasting your time in CA. You are also wasting the time of anyone who might try to give an honest critique. JMHO, Pete |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
This statement alone saves me the trouble of giving you another opinion, as it is plain the only one you value is your own. quote: There is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Tecoyah: Certainly when there is a difference between what we hear and what we want to hear, there are hurt feelings, even if the reinforcement is positive. Whether critiques are negative or positive in tone, if a poem needs work, a good critique will still bring to light elements of the poem that require adjustment or replacement. It isn’t always pleasant, but I think it is a necessary part of the learning process. Now to the poem. quote: What I think we have here is mostly fragmented adjectives and nouns, set loosely to rhyme, that attempt to flesh out the concept of “hatred.” In addition to the typo in L5 (“eyre” were itinerant judges in medieval England … I think you meant “ire”), I don’t believe you’ve treated the subject as eloquently as you could have. Because the lines are essentially fragments, you have a stanza filled with syntax problems that can be largely dealt with by writing in sentences – even short sentences. Since hatred is so common, there must be some reason that it is appealing to so many. Perhaps you would consider exploring this? Obviously, those who are active in hate groups tend to have a seared conscience, but from what I know about the more organized groups, they certainly have a vision and mission, albeit misguided ones. Rather than declaring their vision is lacking and their mission wasted, why don’t you illustrate why? If you “think” you’ll pass on hatred, there must be more of a reason behind your decision than blind acceptance of the truth of your pithy statements. quote: Again, all this is true of an idealistic view of love, but both love and hatred have at least one thing in common: sacrifice. I think a more realistic poetic treatment of love and hate would treat the two concepts as strong currents that drive decisions. I think the Buddhists would see both as attachments that impair our freedom. While I am not a Buddhist, I think they see clearly enough that there is a cost to both love and hatred. Sure, love is passionate, sentimental, and, yes, it can control your life. But because you haven’t explored the cost, I get the sense that your poem is incomplete. We may have a different outlook on poetry, and that is fine, but I think if you read much of what is out there and has stood the test of time, you’ll find that some of the best poems tell of the poet’s struggle between such conflicting concepts as love and hate, life and death, good and evil, freedom and duty, etc. If you think about it, in some contexts, love can be as much of a “lack of vision, crooked path, and wasted mission” as hate. Just my opinion. Hope it is helpful. Jim |
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