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A poem
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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A poem |
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baafie New Member
since 2002-10-17
Posts 4 |
I hope I posted this in the right forum. Anyway, I wrote this poem yesterday; it's my first in English. I'd value some input from you guys  Here it is: Special are the nights when I dream of you Weary are the thoughts that tranquil my mind I ask myself of what I am to do For this is aching of the awful kind But I can't ever part from you my love The wonders that you gave still astound me Even though I know this can't ever be This as always is all that I think of But see you again oh I sure will Even if the journey may take me ages Unduly this passion may be, still But forever outbreaking in stages For as we fuse we are so much stronger Lonesome you will not be, no longer [This message has been edited by baafie (10-17-2002 02:35 PM).] |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Baafie A question. May I ask why you have decided to write poetry in English if English isn't your first language? The reason I ask is that writing good poetry is difficult enough even if you are expert in a language. To write effective poems in a language you are not proficient in is rather like tying your ankles together and blindfolding yourself and then attempting to walk a tight rope. Rob Also, I needed microscope to read your tiny font. |
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baafie New Member
since 2002-10-17
Posts 4 |
I wrote it in English because I originally wrote it for someone who does not speak my native language. As for the fonts - I used none but the default fonts; for the poem I used [ code ] UBB tags. I think it is your browser that is rendering this font so small ..Do you have any comments about the poem itself? |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Baafie Well try taking the tags off please. I think everyone will have the same problem as me otherwise. Perhaps the main problem with this poem Baafie, as I tried to hint nicely in my previous reply, is that it isn’t written in grammatical English. In fact it isn’t until I get to line 5 that I read a semi-grammatically correct sentence. To be blunt Baafie this is pretty much torture for an English speaker to read. I am not saying that in your own language you aren’t a great poet, and if I were to write a poem in French it would be a whole lot worse than your attempt so I respect your linguistic ability generally. But if I were you I would practice a bit more before you post to a critical forum again. I hope that helps. Rob [This message has been edited by Robtm1965 (10-17-2002 02:33 PM).] |
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baafie New Member
since 2002-10-17
Posts 4 |
As a matter of fact, it was my focus to write not a gramatically correct poet, but one that bends the rules to make it more interesting [but not a pain] to read. Apparently it is not custom to write poetry that is only loosely tied to grammatical regulations in English. I removed the code tags from the poem as you requested. [This message has been edited by baafie (10-17-2002 02:39 PM).] |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Baafie You are of course free to write whatever you wish. There are absolutely no rules in poetry! However this reader for one finds this particular style and the content rather reminiscent of the Jedi Master, Yoda, with a bad hangover! Regards Rob Thank you for removing the tags. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hi baafie, You are, of course, welcome here. But, as Rob said, writing in a second language is particularly difficult. You are right to the extent that poetry does allow for some bending of grammatical rules but these violations must be handled with extreme caution. It is far too easy to go beyond the boundaries of acceptability. I think that is what Rob is trying to say about this poem. I too am impressed with your desire to write in a second language but also agree that further practice is in order. Your poem does make sense and can, of course, be cleaned up but it will be a pretty major revision. I wanted to give a sample but can't seem to do it very well right now so I'll just do the first few lines. Your original: Special are the nights when I dream of you Weary are the thoughts that tranquil my mind I ask myself of what I am to do Suggestion: The nights are special when I dream of you in weary thoughts that fill my mind I ask myself of what can I do This is not intended as a final version but just a sample, or second draft, to show how you might correct the grammar. As A second suggestion, I would drop the rhyming attempts. One of the pitfalls of rhyming poetry is the tendence for it to seem forced. That is, making the poem fit the rhyme instead of the rhyme fitting the poem. Also, rhyming poetry usually, but not always, works better with a fairly consistent meter. I also suggest that you look into our Poetry Workshop forum. We do have a few who write in English as a second language and are becoming quite proficient at it. I think most of them started in the Workshop. You will have to email the moderator, Nan, to be able to submit poems there but you can read and comment anyway. Thanks, Pete I see Rob got back in while I was typing. Sometimes I wish I were a little faster. I am not a fast typist. But on the other hand, I'm not a slow typist either. I guest I'm just a half-fast typist.  As he said though, you can write whatever you want. If you want an audience, however, you have to write something they might enjoy. I'm sure it's not a universal trait but I think most readers prefer reasonably good grammar. There certainly are cases where archaic language or a dialect of sorts can effectively be employed but one needs a lot of skill to pull that off acceptably. JMHO. [This message has been edited by Not A Poet (10-17-2002 03:12 PM).] |
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
Hi! Welcomed to PIP. First I'd like to say that both previous commentators have offered valuable advice. Yet, I feel that there is much that I can add which will help to improve your ability to write poetry. So here goes: Punctuation corrections are in brackets as are all other suggestions. Yes, writing in a second language can be very difficult. I tried it once and was moderately successful. But the restrictions caused by a more limited vocabulary were very annoying and limited what I could do. But of course, a poem to a loved one is certainly a valid cause to hurl caution to the wind since lovers are more interested in content than in form. To be honest, being your first one in English I find it pretty good grammatically. Of course, bringing your poem here elicits a critical assessment. So I will try to be helpful. Let's see what we can do to improve what you have here. Special are the nights when I dream of you[.] Weary are the thoughts that [tranquilize] my mind[.] [ I suggest you try: "pacify" "calm" "soothe" Tranquilize comes across as too medical a word. It is usually used by psychiatrists when referring to medication given to mental patients to keep them under control. As you know, words have denotation and connotation. Denotatively the word "tranquilize" means to calm. But connotatively it carries all the medical implications which make it unfit for this particular poem.] I ask myself [] what I am to do [About] this []aching of the awful kind[.] [OK, first you tell us that your mind is soothed. Now that you are experiencing an aching of an awful kind. There is a contradiction here that confuses the reader. Is she soothed? Is she aching? Only her hairdresser knows! LOL. So I recommend that the first stanza be rewritten so that it does not clash with the concepts of the other stanzas. I removed the word [for] because it is considered a poeticism as used here.] But I can't ever part from you my love[.] The wonders that you gave still astound me[.] Even though I know this can't ever be This as always is all that I think of[.] [The stanza above deviates from the standard Shakespearean Sonnet pattern you have chosen as is indicated by the concluding couplet. The first stanza established the abab pattern. So the correct continuation would be cdcd. But you are using cddc. Free verse allows for this, but since you are using traditional verse then the rules require consistency.] But see you again oh I sure[ly] will[,] Even if the journey may take me ages[.] Unduly this passion may be[] still[,] But forever outbreaking in stages[.] [Once again connotation dictates whether a word is appropriate or not. The word "outbreak" connotes disease. "There was an outbreak of the Spanish Flu immediately after W.W.II." We must quarantine these people to prevent an outbreak of disease." So I would use "emerging" "recurring" or "surfacing." Personally I like "surfacing" But you are free to choose what you feel is best--of course. [Here you return to the abab pattern of the first stanza. So I suggest modifying that second stanza's rhyme scheme to fit in with the rest of the poem.] For as we fuse we are so much stronger[.] Lonesome you will not be[] [any] longer[.] [Again connotation is what guides me here. The word "fuse" has electrical associations. "Hey honey, we just blew a fuse cause you got too many electrical gadgets going all at once!" So I would try "merge" "coalesce" or "become one"] BTW The rising iambic pentameter predominates which is true to the sonnet form. So that part is OK. [This message has been edited by Radrook (10-18-2002 04:41 AM).] |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hey Baffie, I forgot to ask. What is your native language? Pete |
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baafie New Member
since 2002-10-17
Posts 4 |
Wow thank you all for your comments. I wrote the following poem, taking your advice under consideration [but as you may notice I dislike punctuation in poetry]. My native language is Dutch, by the way. Thank you in advance for any commenting. Also note that the script that prevents one from submitting the same post twice is not working properly in Opera . Regards, baafie.Surfing Over the moon And back down under the sun We make our way through the solar system Gliding slowly Taking an eternity to reach the Sun We pass through it as if it were void Then suddenly we fall into the depth The cold blackness We fall We shiver Together [This message has been edited by baafie (10-18-2002 06:23 PM).] |
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
Hi! Hey! Glad I could be of some help. I have repeatedly read your next poem. I come away with a scene. But beyond that, I am not moved emotionally? Neither can I perceive a deeper meaning. I cannot identify literally with the described experience because it is beyond human capability and holds no literary experiential relevance. So what am I left with? I am left with a scene. That is the crux! Poetry is more than descriptive or informative prose. Poetry strives to engage the emotions and to deepen or broaden a reader's experience. But this poem merely tells me but does neither. Sure I like the visual image. But that's as far as it goes. Thomas Harding's "Darkling Thrush" for example, makes the reader experience the post-nuclear-war-desolation via imagery of sky, soil, earth, and finally introduces the bird's song amidst the desolation as a symbol of hope. It increases our concern for earth's future, for its fauna its flora and most definitely for ourselves. So via the imagination our mental life is intensified and we grow in appreciation feeling more poignantly. This can be applied also to common things such as marital infidelity or the briefness of life and its constant threat of termination as in: "You, Andrew Marvel" written by Archibald Macleish, where night's shadow slowly moves across one landscape after another representing the slow approach of oblivion which all of us seek to deny or ignore in order to go on with our lives in relative emotional peace. Such a poem engages emotionally and makes us ponder deeply our own mortality. We feel it more poignantly, and such might even lead us to modify our behavior toward the wiser. In short, I would strive to engage reader emotion. Introduce an element of conflict and the battle is half won. Let me just tweak the poem as an illustration of how to make it come alive via allusion: Thrown Over the screaming moon toward a protesting sun Traversing the solar system careening wildly Taking five eternities to reach it They pass through as if it were void Then suddenly they fall into the cold growling blackness of the abyss' falling pleading shivering enternally screaming Together [The introduction of "abyss' serves as an allusion to the bibllical book of Revelation's abyss. This in turn creates interpretational possibilities that would otherise be missing. So I suggest taking the poem and doing something similar with it. God bless!] [This message has been edited by Radrook (10-20-2002 06:54 PM).] |
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