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Critical Analysis #2
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2nd Try Cinquain
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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2nd Try Cinquain |
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SimplyGold Senior Member
since 2002-07-10
Posts 1453 |
Wise man Sensitive heart Speaks of love and beauty His eyes search for a connection Good man |
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SimplyGold Senior Member
since 2002-07-10
Posts 1453 |
O.K. Gentlemen: This poem is for Rob, Chris, Rad and CrazyEddy. I hope I learned something. I'm trying to swing the golf club a little better. I seem to be creating a lot of divits, hope I don't ruin the landscape too much.   SG Please be gentle, I'm bracing myself. [This message has been edited by SimplyGold (10-13-2002 02:51 PM).] |
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
Meets all syllabic cinquain structural requirements. Wise man [One word two syllables.] Sensitive heart [describes subject] Speaks of love and beauty [Shows action.] His eyes search for a connection [Makes an observation.] Good man [Describes or renames.] Suggestion: The poem would be strengthened if more concrete words would be used. Such abstract concepts as love, beauty, freedom, or democracy can mean many things to different people. So when you say that this man speaks of love and beauty, please keep in mind that Hitler spoke of his concepts as beautiful and expressed great love for the German people. Are we to conclude that this is sufficient cause to call him a good man? Don't get me wrong. I am very sure that you would not. But isn't that what the syllogistic conclusion is saying? Good men speak of beauty and peace. This man speaks of beauty and peace This man is a good man. See what I mean? Of course you the poet might have a specific man in mind. But to us the readers, it might come across as a generalization. BTW I found this informative site that I am sure will be of great interest to those wishing to write cinquains. Three types of cinquains are described there: http://www.mec.edu/saugus/shs/new/ex/english/nsenglish/ I fixed the problem. Thanks for telling me! The links to be clicked there are: Word, [word cinquain] Grammatical, [grammatical cinquain] and Syllabic, [syllabic cinquain]. [This message has been edited by Radrook (10-13-2002 05:01 PM).] |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
SG Awwww you wrote one about me. Merci! Seriously, this is certainly better. I tried the link Radrook suggested as I probably know rather less about quatrains than Christopher, but it doesn’t seem to work (Fix Radrook?). Still, from what I know this seems to fit the requirements of the form. I’ll try and point out potential weaknesses: Wise man Well the noun “man” is concrete ok and the attached adjective although technically abstract is therefore also ok. (Given the limits of the form this is probably the best you can do.) Sensitive heart Now then you are straying a bit here! Can you touch, taste, see, hear, or smell - “sensitive”? “Can you touch, taste, see, hear, or smell - “heart”? The answer is that yes you could in the case of the noun if you were talking about a surgeon with his hands in the open chest of a patient on an operating table for heart surgery! But I hardly think you had that in mind. No, what you have done in this line is managed to commit the cardinal sin of abstraction and cliche all in one! Don’t worry, it’s so easy to do once you get in the habit - in fact you hardly notice you are doing it. You see in the context you mean it you are attaching some kind of feeling to “heart” - am I right? “Heart” stands for ..humm..let me think ... maybe..love, kindness, the deep psyche (oh, wait no that is “soul”!). The problem is SG that doing that makes the whole phrase thoroughly abstract and over-used (cliche). Speaks of love and beauty Well again, nice words, and the verb “speaks” would be ok except for the fact that you are referring back to the cliche heart which can’t of course speak. But also I am longing to know what sort of love, longing to “see” the beauty. Of themselves those two words are rather vague .... and well, you will hate me for this, but ... abstract! His eyes search for a connection Now this is better imo. There is some positive action. You have a good noun “eyes” and a great active verb “search”. Immediately I am interested! And the word connection at the line end is enticing as well. Well done. Good man Ok, again you end with a strong noun combined with an adjective - perhaps a little weak, but acceptable. SG I am thinking here that in order to make further progress you should now ditch this form (the cinquain) for the purposes of CA and post something more substantial. I really think you are making life hard for yourself right now, plus you aren’t giving us enough material to work with. But this is certainly better, and thanks for re-posting. Regards Rob [This message has been edited by Robtm1965 (10-13-2002 04:39 PM).] |
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Crazy Eddie Member
since 2002-09-14
Posts 178 |
Whether this fits the form or not is a question I’ll leave to the experts. My one and only suggestion is to change the last line to: The fool. The connection between love and beauty doesn’t exist and however wise he is he isn’t going to find it, reiterating or enforcing the subjects positive attributes gives the poem only one dimension on which to work. Twisting wisdom into foolishness opens up other dimensions and offers the possibility of profundity. In other words it’ll give it a better ‘wow’ factor and the possibility of receiving the accolade of ‘deep’. Thanks for the chance to read and reply |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
SG I just decided two things: 1. Eddie's suggestion is great. 2. The poem is not about me after all! Rob |
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SimplyGold Senior Member
since 2002-07-10
Posts 1453 |
Thanks to you all for such great responses. The picture is becoming clearer. I didn't realize how hard it was to stay away from cliches and find it interesting to see each line broken down and analaysed for content and structure. I guess I got the basic structure O.K. but lack the creative spirit. O.K. Rob, I'll give it a break and venture out with another poem. And oh CrazyEddie, I like the fool very much. Thank you all for taking the time. Respectfully and affectionately, SG [This message has been edited by SimplyGold (10-13-2002 05:23 PM).] |
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lizzy-luv Junior Member
since 2002-10-12
Posts 20new hampshire..oh, the hicks abound |
Aright. I can't give you a whole long in-depth response because everyone already said all my stuff. So, um yeah. I agree on the subject of vaguary (sp? i'm dumb). It could use some tightening up. But the feeling is there (and I'm all about the feeling). I got the idea, but maybe it needs just a little tightening. Tightening a cinquain, I know. But you know what I mean. I like it, though. 'everyone is broken by something they love and worship'(Fransesca Lia Block) |
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Robtm1965 Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 263 |
Excuse me SG if I just borrow your thread to have a quick word with Radrook: Radrook This is not a criticism just a request or suggestion. On 10-13-2002 at 03:59 PM you posted a reply to SG which simply read: “I found this informative site that I am sure will be of great interest to those wishing to write cinquains. Three types of cinquains are described there: http://www.mec.edu/saugus/shs/new/ex/english/nsenglish/ “ At 04:34 PM I posted my reply. At 04:54 PM you edited your reply to include: “Meets all cinquain structural requirements. Wise man [One word two syllables.] Sensitive heart [describes subject] Speaks of love and beauty [Shows action.] His eyes search for a connection [Makes an observation.] Good man [Describes or renames.] Suggestion: The poem would be strengthened if more concrete words would be used. Love, beauty, freedom, democracy can mean many things to different people. So when you say that this man speaks of love and beauty, please keep in mind that Hitler spoke of his concepts as beautiful and expressed great love for the German people. Are we to conclude that this is sufficient cause to call him a good man? Don't get me wrong. I am very sure that you would not. But isn't that what the syllogistic conclusion is saying? Good men speak of beauty and peace. This man speaks of beauty and peace This man is a good man. See what I mean? Of course you the poet might have a specific man in mind. But to us the readers, it might come across as a generalization.” I totally agree with everything you say in that edit, but in future I would ask that if you wish to make such a comprehensive edit you would post it as an additional reply (this board isn’t so heavily used that one more reply is going to be a burden). The main reason for this is that if you don’t do this then people who have subsequently posted replies may well not check or see your edit. Normally I would have missed it completely. A subsidiary reason is that it is possible, I am not saying it has happened in this case, but it is possible, that by editing or adding that heavily you render something said by someone later silly, irrelevant or merely confusing. A further reason is that I think it helpful to the originator to see the true order in which thought has evolved in the thread. Again this may not be relevant in this case, but nevertheless as a matter of good practice I think it is helpful. Once again, I am not trying to tell you what to do, this is merely a suggestion as from past experience I have found that heavy editing, moving and deleting of existing threads and replies without good reason can cause much confusion. Once again though you make some good points in your response which as you will have seen concur with my own comments. Thanks for listening. Rob Thanks for the air-time SG, and you’re welcome - and btw, how about having a crack at a bit of critiquing yourself in here if you haven’t already. Oh, and thanks for fixing the problem with the link Radrook. [This message has been edited by Robtm1965 (10-13-2002 05:28 PM).] |
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