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if worth is once by measure meant
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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if worth is once by measure meant |
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Streen Member
since 2001-11-28
Posts 169
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once a dunce and Once a gent, (if worth is once by measure meant) came themselves into a grove, of Tea and Cups and sheeps that wove. Their names are unimportant since this import be of simple tense, but public for posterity: dunce jimmy bob, gent Daniel Lee. the dunce was thinking of hisself of no triple r's nor donegone wealfh, and saw the gent just like a bulb, (and switched the light like in his pub) said jimmy bob to Daniel Lee: "who are you and who is me? how come this world go spinnin' round? why does the trees grow from the ground?" Daniel Lee to j.b said: "I am literate-- you are lead. It spins 'round goodfellows like me, I the rose, and you the weed." "a flower red is stiel a flow'r!" Said jimmy bob a lil' bit loud'r. "i's gots no edercation, but i grow i's stiel a person, i know, i know." Daniel Lee with scoff proclaimed: "Person?, a stemless dandy maimed? You a man?, Guffaw! Hear these words: A drone, a loaf, a louse, a herd." "i's gots no reading," said j.bob, "but i's nots no herd nor no mob!" "No Poe? No Hawthorne? Dare I say, I see no worth in you? I may." More and angrier they grew, until a line their 'good' sense drew, which told them oft, and taking heed, the dunce his shoe, the Gent his Steed. And off they went their paths ahead, One a rose and one some lead, But came a storm (was called the frost), one was stolid 'n one was lost. We (the poet) mightn't say, what happened on that autumn day, but truth be told (didactically), a Dandy is, a dandy be. |
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| © Copyright 2002 Derek Benz - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
Since it has been brought to my attention that deleting my posts causes inconveniences for those who read later, I will try to reconstruct the essence of what I had previously said. What I had said was that I found the poem racist in a not too subtle way due to its use of Ebonics where Ebonics can be easily done without so as to avoid offending those sensitive readers of Afro American heritage. Of course you are free to ignore or discard or downplay my reaction as irrelevant or uncharacteristic of others on this forum who like you see nothing wrong in utilizing Ebonics while portraying stupidity as laughable. But regardless of other diverse and divergent opinions, I stand by what I said. [This message has been edited by Radrook (09-27-2002 12:48 AM).] |
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Streen Member
since 2001-11-28
Posts 169 |
I live out in the country, and that's how some white folk actually talk. |
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
I have traveled extensively throughout the United States and have lived here for more than 56 years and have NEVER come across a group of whites who talk that way nor ever have as much as read about whites who talk that way despite my study and reading about American dialects. Maybe that's why your collage usage seems somehow artifcial. I won't go into specifics because it obviously won't maker a difference. Neither am I particularly interested in debating American regional linguistic idiosyncrasies. But that does not mean that I must accept a hodge-podged amalgamation of these as genuine. [This message has been edited by Radrook (09-27-2002 12:58 AM).] |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
Uh.... I don't think this is that offensive. I don't see it as a poke at uneducated ANYONE, black or white... I see it as a poke at how the two different worlds interact. I think that the "gent" was presented just as negatively as the "dunce"- in fact, maybe more so, because the "dunce" seems like he might be a nice guy, but the "Gent" seems to be a bit of a jerk. Also- I like the ending being open to interpretation- the reader can go ahead and think (Idealistically) that the nicer, but not quite as suave guy ended up making it through the storm... or that the "Gent" (realistically, cynically?) made it through based on his ability to charm people by tossing out quotes from Romantic literature. I guess it also depends on whether you take the "Storm" literally or metaphorically. I thought this was a pretty cool poem.... the flow was pretty good (in my opinion- I don't write poems with rhyme schemes and meter very often at all...) and I thought it presented a serious dillemma in a very lighthearted fashion. 'Well, I will not be an enemy of anything |
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Streen Member
since 2001-11-28
Posts 169 |
Radrook, this poem is not intended to be offensive in any sense of the imagination, and I'm not getting the sense from others who've read it that it is offensive. Nor do I feel that the language of the dunce is ebonics. It might have certain characteristics that ebonics has, but it is not ebonics, it is country speak (at least where I'm from). I am writing the dunce in local color. I'm writing what I know. I live in the middle of the country, and that's how some white folks talk. Also, even if it were ebonics, it would suit the purpose of the poem. The poem is about the clash of education with noneducation. In my opinion, the use of ebonics is grammatically incorrect. It's not a separate language from English, just as hickspeak is not a separate language from English. It's a deviation. The poem doesn't say whether or not one is better than the other, so ebonics would be suitable for the poem were I to choose it. But I have not. And hush, thank ye for your comments. Do you think that any parts of it are awkward at all? |
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hush Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653Ohio, USA |
No, not really.... but I'm not too keen on metrical intricacies.  I like the rhythm you had going on here... but like I said, I'm not exactly the expert on rhyme/meter. 'Well, I will not be an enemy of anything |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Writing dialect is tough. So tough, in fact, that those acknowledged as doing it really well, like Twain, probably number in the single digits. Most experienced writers avoid it. You and I probably live close enough we could meet for coffee this afternoon. Two or three of the people you are trying to represent with this dialect likely live on my dead-end dirt road, and one of those is my brother. I think I recognize your intent, and I certainly recognize your theme, if only because I bang my head against it every time I leave my house. But I've never heard anyone, black or white, say "stiel" and I seriously doubt you have either. The written word is probably unable to achieve the intonation that would breath reality into that utterance. If you were going to capture the reality of a stunning sunset, you wouldn't try to do it with endless details, no matter how accurate they might be. Instead, you would carefully select those details that conveyed the essence of the sunset. Deciding which details to emphasize and which to ignore is almost the definition of an artist. Dialect is no different, though what has made it historically tough for so many writers is knowing which details really matter. It is, it seems, a slightly different talent, requiring an artist's ear rather than an artist's eye. Few do it well, and I am definitely not one of those few. On those rare occasions when I can't avoid dialect, I use just enough to "suggest" it. I think the better your ear, the more of it you can depict, but even Twain never wholly recreated the speech the way you have tried to do here. I think you need to forget accuracy and shoot for essence. Go for a painting, not a photograph. Less is more. Your meter is delightful, and the word flow puts me in mind of Bradbury, always one of my favorites. "If worth is once by measure meant" rings in the same way "Something wicked this way comes" does for me, and I think you have several of those in this poem. If you can tighten the dialect, so the reader isn't constantly being reminded they are reading, I think that will come across even better. |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Stanzas 1 & 2 are excellent. For me the stumbling begins at stanza 3: 'of no triple r's nor donegone wealfh' should donegone be doggone? And what is triple r's? also- 'and switched the light like in his pub' dosen't make any sense to me.. Stanza 4 is okay if a little jerky. In 5 "I am literate-- you are lead." comes across as forced, the word literate takes up lots of space in the ryhme scheme here, consider doing something else here. I'm fine until I get to 8, then I stumble again: "but i's nots no herd nor no mob!" this line just seems to have too many no's in it, especially if you count to NOs in nots & nor. In stanza 9: 'until a line their 'good' sense drew' seems to me a betrayal of the whole premise upon which you begin the poem; Re j.bob is a dunce... the word does not imply much sense, good or common. The end is beautiful. I loved this because I am a died in the wool rhyme and rhythm poet. I hope the above makes sense. |
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