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Midnight's Oil
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Midnight's Oil |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
What am I supposed to do, with thoughts that come in the middle of the night in bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite? What do they matter? These visions of my head, as they barge through the narrow existence of my present here, sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words before spun to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure. I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights and artic summer days bright, the cries of babies and the silence of bats in flight; plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise. I am a rolled dice. |
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caterina Member
since 2002-07-25
Posts 188Canada |
Hi Yesh, Hope you don't mind me shortening your name-- saves me a little time.lol Ok, I like your poem and a good title too. I do have some suggestions to take or discard as you wish... just my little ole opinion as a reader. What am I supposed to do,** sounds fine but you can also shorten it to "What should I do" and getting rid of a few words in the process. with thoughts that come in the middle of the night ** you might consider getting rid of "that come" really don't see a need for it. in bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite? ** Kinda have a problem with "torrents" doesn't seem to fit in there-- perhaps "in a bunch like bushels of unripe fruit I cannot bite." Something to think about. What do they matter ** do you need a question mark there? These visions in my head ** I would drop "of my head" we already know from the first stanza that these are thoughts. as they barge through the narrow existence of my present here. ** should "present" be prescence? sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words before spun ** the word "unapologetic" makes this line sound awkward, perhaps mendacious would work better or whatever you choose. Also, "before spun" is giving me a problem, I thought about it and came up with-- scattered and that would go along with sprinkling seeds, like so: "words, sprinkled like mendacious seeds and scattered" to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure. ** not too sure about this line, can't really put my finger on it but perhaps I am just not understanding who these bards are and why they proclaimed them as sure. Could be just me though-- it is early am-- perhaps I need another coffee. I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights and artic summer day bright, ** I might put a comma after "I" and drop "am" and I would drop the second "summer." the cries of babies and the silence of bats in flight; ** perhaps switch this around to "a baby's cry" then drop the "and" and replace with a comma and then "the silence of bats in flight" and are bats really silent in flight? I think that a mass of bats would make noise with their wings-- perhaps you can change it to "the silence of a bat in flight." Don't know really, what do you think? plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, ** I would sub "the" with an "a"-- a comma after "glance" and drop "of" or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise. ** I would drop "or by the" and begin that line with "an unblinking ............" Should it be "in a hen's paradise." I am a rolled dice. ** Don't know about the ending yet-- still thinking about it. I don't know if it really fits in with the content of the poem. I was thinking on the lines of " a wild seed that travels with the wind"/or "a wild card in a game of chance" and I don't know if this makes sense at all...lol-- I'm just thinking these up as I go along. I really think you could improve on the ending though. Other than that-- I liked your poem. caterina |
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Radrook Senior Member
since 2002-08-09
Posts 648 |
Genesis 2:18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." Since I lived this scenario, the poem speaks deeply and directly to my heart. I found it very accurate and effective in conveying the agonizing sense of loneliness caused by such a solitary existence! The fleeting hallway encounters, the dismal silence, the cries of baby's cruelly announcing that normalcy is enjoyed by others but not you -- that life begins while ours seems at an end, the silent sinister flight of bats hinting at life's possibly inherent malevolence, the "thrown dice" metaphor which expresses life's uncertain nature, all contribute, in my opinion-- to creating a mood of isolation and desperation present in such a situation. Since the poem accomplished what I feel it set out to do--create a mood of desperation and loneliness in this reader, I give it an "A" Addendum: The image of fruits that cannot be eaten or bitten I understand to refer to all the desirable things that the speaker sees around him but is unable to partake of--such as --romantic relationahips [fleeting hallway glances], fatherhood [crying baby], and perhaps the escape from the situation [flying bats]. The thoughts characteristic of ancient bards with their idealistic portrayals of heroic deeds and romantic escapades only serve to aggravate the speaker's sufferings. Well, that is my understanding of your poem my friend. God bless. Ecclesiastes 4 10 If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! 11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken [This message has been edited by Radrook (09-02-2002 01:17 PM).] |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
Hi YeshuJah, I feel that the strength of the poem is in the last verse, the best images in the poem are there. The first verse lacks the power of the second and third. You could cut the first verse and combine its elements to the second verse, e.g “ What should I do, with these visions barging through the narrow existence of my present here” It is not that I don’t like the first verse, it is just that it doesn’t flow as well as the other verses Nor does it have the same impact in terms of imagery. I do like the “fruit” image, Though “middle of the night” seems a bit drab when surrounded by the more potent images of the other verses. 2nd stanza last 2 lines, reading it aloud it I found it could flow a bit better, some small changes would achieve this. “sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words“ I am not sure about the use of the image “seeds of words“ I understand the image, but “half formed verse” or “seed of thought” might work better, it is just the use of “words.” Also be careful of the double plural in “seeds” and “words” I am not quite sure of the order of “before spun” “spun before” reads a bit better, “to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure.” The flow of this line is a slight bit awkward A suggestion: “by bards who glibly proclaim them as sure.” The use of “sure” in this context does puzzle me, What I read from the verse is that the speaker has ideas for the poems, though he believes that Great poets (the bards) have written poems on the same subject. The speaker is haunted by the futileness of writing something about something that has already been written by a Bard. The next verse does shift focus a bit too quickly, the first two verses are of a similar tone and theme where as the third verse is quite different. In some ways it is almost like the start of a new poem. I think if you smoothen the transition between verses it would help. The third verse is still my favourite verse, some wonderful images, “I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights” “plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise.” It is quite cryptic, I feel that is the about poet accepting that he is limited to a limited source of ideas, Hence the “I am a rolled dice”. Line All in all, a very enjoyed read, some wonderfully written imagery. Just a little confusing in parts. The sum of the angles of that rectangle is too monstrous to contemplate! |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hello Yesh, "What am I supposed to do, with thoughts that come in the middle of the night in bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite?" In my opinion the "bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite" doesn't seem to be fitting. Waves of thoughts doesn't seem to fully equate to being busheled nor to fruit you can't bite. Perhaps what might be more accurate is, "in torrents of busheled fruit into which I can not bite." I dunno, what'cha think? "What do they matter? These visions of my head, as they barge through the narrow existence of my present here, sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words before spun to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure." You sure like "glibly"  ..j/k, its just that you used that word in the last poem of yours I read and its not a very commonly used word so it kinda stood out. I kinda liked this stanza, "of my present here", intentional? If so I like it."I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights and artic summer days bright, the cries of babies and the silence of bats in flight; plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise." I think you can get away with "bard" in the last stanza because of its reference to past poets, however "minstrel", in my opinion, really seems dated and conveys more the image of a man in tights dancing around while playing a mandolin rather than a modern day poet. Also I don't know how accurate the last line is....I think you are saying a cockerel in a hen house? Not sure though, but if that is the case would the cockerel have a quizzical stare and would a hen house be a hen's paradise? "cockerel in hen's paradise"...a male fowl in a female fowl's paradise....is how it reads currently...or is that what you are intending therefore the male has a quizzical stare? I liked the rest of the stanza and thought it had an interesting and good flow. "I am a rolled dice." To be honest I'm kinda undecided about my thoughts on this last line. I like the idea, but I'm not sure if I like the wording yet. Thanks for the read, Trevor |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hi YM, Good to see you back active again. You're already getting lots of good advice here and I really don't have anything to add except a couple of nit picks. Looks like a typo on the first line of the last stanza. I think you meant arctic instead of artic. And the last line is technically wrong too. Dice is the plural of die. It would read better as "I am rolled dice" or "I am a rolled die." The latter, of course, looks out of place since we rarely use just one die. Thanks for the read, Pete |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Caterina, no trouble, the shortened name is ok. Glad you found the poem and title likeable. Now to the poem. What am I supposed to do,** sounds fine but you can also shorten it to "What should I do" and getting rid of a few words in the process >>I agree. with thoughts that come in the middle of the night ** you might consider getting rid of "that come" really don't see a need for it. >>Again I agree with you. in bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite? ** Kinda have a problem with "torrents" doesn't seem to fit in there-- perhaps "in a bunch like bushels of unripe fruit I cannot bite." Something to think about >>I probably could use another word here, but it would have to fit the image of a 'deluge of thought' that I wanted to portray; I will think about this. What do they matter ** do you need a question mark there? >>I thought I needed one here since I was asking a question. These visions in my head ** I would drop "of my head" we already know from the first stanza that these are thoughts >>I agree totally. as they barge through the narrow existence of my present here. ** should "present" be presence? >> no, this was deliberate. I wanted to sort of go for a word-play.. dunno if it works. sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words before spun ** the word "unapologetic" makes this line sound awkward, perhaps mendacious would work better or whatever you choose. Also, "before spun" is giving me a problem, I thought about it and came up with-- scattered and that would go along with sprinkling seeds, like so: "words, sprinkled like mendacious seeds and scattered" >> I can see the difficulty you point out. I'll go over that line. to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure. ** not too sure about this line, can't really put my finger on it but perhaps I am just not understanding who these bards are and why they proclaimed them as sure. Could be just me though-- it is early am-- perhaps I need another coffee. >>I wanted to say here that similar thoughts had come to poets before me, which were proclaimed as sure, in some cases in the prophetic sense of sure- I don't know if I made that clear. I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights and artic summer day bright, ** I might put a comma after "I" and drop "am" and I would drop the second "summer." >> I agree. the cries of babies and the silence of bats in flight; ** perhaps switch this around to "a baby's cry" then drop the "and" and replace with a comma and then "the silence of bats in flight" and are bats really silent in flight? I think that a mass of bats would make noise with their wings-- perhaps you can change it to "the silence of a bat in flight." Don't know really, what do you think? >> I agree that changes could be made here, your suggestion is good. My experiences with bats led me to think of them as silent in flight, I've seen them, as a boy in my country, flying about at night without a sound. I suppose the same is not true of all bats.. don't know. plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, ** I would sub "the" with an "a"-- a comma after "glance" and drop "of" >> I like the idea here, but the assumptive leap between the suggested comma after 'glance' and the remainder makes me uncomfortable. This might just be a matter of personal style and preference. or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise. ** I would drop "or by the" and begin that line with "an unblinking ............" Should it be "in a hen's paradise." >> Again, your suggestion seeks, IMO, brevity and flow with minimum usage- but it seems to sacrifice continuity of thought, IMO. Yes, it should be 'hen's paradise' I grew up on a farm and realized quickly that the rooster for all his strutting was the fool in the chicken pen; sure he got all the sex he wanted, but he was usually the first on the chop block; see, hens are indispensable, they lay eggs that can be sold, eaten and hatched for new chickens. Hence, their value to a farmer is greater than that of the rooster. In this light, it is a 'hen's paradise'.. I am a rolled dice. ** Don't know about the ending yet-- still thinking about it. I don't know if it really fits in with the content of the poem. I was thinking on the lines of " a wild seed that travels with the wind"/or "a wild card in a game of chance" and I don't know if this makes sense at all...lol-- I'm just thinking these up as I go along. I really think you could improve on the ending though. >> I am also still re-thinking the end. I wanted to stop here before I descended into philosophizing. I really appreciate the careful look at the work. It gives me some other perspectives. Thank you. |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Radrook, your response made me smile. I am still amazed at the power that words have to appeal differently to different people. Your interpretation of the work give me an entirely new look at what I wrote. You said the work spoke deeply and directly to your heart, and I give thanks and praises to the MOST HIGH GOD, in whom it seems you're a believer, that this was so. May it be unot you according to your faith, in this matter. Thank you for reading and commenting on the poem. |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Brian, thanks for reading and responding to the poem. I feel that the strength of the poem is in the last verse, the best images in the poem are there. The first verse lacks the power of the second and third. You could cut the first verse and combine its elements to the second verse, e.g “ What should I do, with these visions barging through the narrow existence of my present here” >>I am all for condensation of words/thoughts in poetry, I will look again at this and perhaps read it out loud to see what and where the effects or lack thereof may be. It is not that I don’t like the first verse, it is just that it doesn’t flow as well as the other verses Nor does it have the same impact in terms of imagery. I do like the “fruit” image, Though “middle of the night” seems a bit drab when surrounded by the more potent images of the other verses. >> 'middle of the night' does seem weak there- another change that can be made. “sprinkling unapologetic seeds of words“ I am not sure about the use of the image “seeds of words“ I understand the image, but “half formed verse” or “seed of thought” might work better, it is just the use of “words.” Also be careful of the double plural in “seeds” and “words” I am not quite sure of the order of “before spun” “spun before” reads a bit better, >>ok “to bards who glibly proclaimed them as sure.” The flow of this line is a slight bit awkward A suggestion: “by bards who glibly proclaim them as sure.” The use of “sure” in this context does puzzle me, >> please see my attempt at explaining this in my response to Caterina. What I read from the verse is that the speaker has ideas for the poems, though he believes that Great poets (the bards) have written poems on the same subject. The speaker is haunted by the futileness of writing something about something that has already been written by a Bard. >> Right on the money. The next verse does shift focus a bit too quickly, the first two verses are of a similar tone and theme where as the third verse is quite different. In some ways it is almost like the start of a new poem. I think if you smoothen the transition between verses it would help. The third verse is still my favourite verse, some wonderful images, “I am a minstrel plagued by soft summer nights” “plagued by the single fleeting glance of a hallway encounter, or by the unblinking quizzical stare of a cockerel in hen's paradise.” It is quite cryptic, I feel that is the about poet accepting that he is limited to a limited source of ideas, Hence the “I am a rolled dice”. Line >> The quick shift in focus is deliberate; it is a representation of the poet snapping out of question mode into his take on the reality of the situation; I intend no transition here. Glad you liked this verse though, it is my favorite too. Brian, thanks for the time you took to look at this. |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Trevor, I appreciate the time you took to comment. In my opinion the "bushels of torrents like fruit into which I cannot bite" doesn't seem to be fitting. Waves of thoughts doesn't seem to fully equate to being busheled nor to fruit you can't bite. Perhaps what might be more accurate is, "in torrents of busheled fruit into which I can not bite." I dunno, what'cha think? >> I think my version or yours pretty much say the same thing; remember, writing is largely a subjective act where the writer, though bounded by a certain degree of expected reality, uses his or her perceptions to relay thought, but I agree that there is always different ways, and in some cases more effective ways to say something. I'll see what I can come up with. You sure like "glibly" ..j/k, its just that you used that word in the last poem of yours I read and its not a very commonly used word so it kinda stood out. I kinda liked this stanza, "of my present here", intentional? If so I like it. >. Yikes! I'll have to add 'glibly' to my list of words that I tend to overuse, yes. 'present here' is intentional, glad you liked this. I think you can get away with "bard" in the last stanza because of its reference to past poets, however "minstrel", in my opinion, really seems dated and conveys more the image of a man in tights dancing around while playing a mandolin rather than a modern day poet. Also I don't know how accurate the last line is....I think you are saying a cockerel in a hen house? Not sure though, but if that is the case would the cockerel have a quizzical stare and would a hen house be a hen's paradise? "cockerel in hen's paradise"...a male fowl in a female fowl's paradise....is how it reads currently...or is that what you are intending therefore the male has a quizzical stare? I liked the rest of the stanza and thought it had an interesting and good flow. >> The word minstrel is 'old' and has thus suffered, IMO, the indignity of caricaturization. Webster says: Etymology: Middle English menestrel, from Middle French, official, servant, minstrel, from Late Latin ministerialis imperial household officer, from Latin ministerium service, from minister servant -- more at MINISTER Date: 14th century 1 : one of a class of medieval musical entertainers; especially : a singer of verses to the accompaniment of a harp I was alluding to the 'real' minstrel as opposed to the clownish image now resident in the connotations of the word. See my explanation of the 'cockerel' issue above in my reply to Caterina. As for the 'quizzical stare' as a boy I have stood and stared at roosters that stared right back with what appeared to me to be 'quizzical stares' it is an unnerving thing to be stared down by a rooster who then proudly struts off as if he'd gotten the better of the encounter. All of this of course is how I saw it through the eyes of a boy. The jury is still out on the last line. |
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YeshuJah Member
since 2002-08-20
Posts 65FL USA |
Pete, your point about the word 'die/dice' is very useful. I totally overlooked this. Also, thanks for the correction on artic. Thank you. [This message has been edited by YeshuJah (09-03-2002 07:32 PM).] |
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Trevor Senior Member
since 1999-08-12
Posts 700Canada |
Hiya Yesh, "I think my version or yours pretty much say the same thing; remember, writing is largely a subjective act where the writer, though bounded by a certain degree of expected reality, uses his or her perceptions to relay thought, but I agree that there is always different ways, and in some cases more effective ways to say something. I'll see what I can come up with." I don't know if writing is a subjective act...personally I like to think of it as an objective act and the interpretation of such is subjective. There does seem to be fairly clear cut reasons why we write. We do use our own perceptions to relay thoughts, but that's what we try to do with our writing, "relay thoughts", which to me says objectiveness. I guess the writer takes his subjective perceptions, then objectifies them, which is then viewed subjectively. Did any of that make any sense? I'm sorry, I'm probably more or less just nit-picking here because I'm in full agreement with your statement of, "always different ways, and in some cases more effective ways to say something.", but I just wanted to put out my opinion on the act of writing for discussion's sake. I think you are right about the word "minstrel" wrongly suffering from stereotypes, but nonetheless, it does suffer. This all could just be my own ignorance but even with the explanation I still see a mandolin player skipping along I liked your explanation for the "hen's paradise" and in the back of my mind I thought that it was something more than a just a cockerel's sexual heyday. I'd also like to say that interpretation of work and opinions thereof is a difficult thing. I think we all have pre-concieved notions of what and how a poem should be, I know I do, and I've read a lot of critiques, so I know you and everyone else most definetly do as well. My point is, that after reflecting on this poem and the "hen's" and "present here" lines, I was thinking "How open am I to the writing techniques of others?". I think as a reader I often find myself looking at certain lines, such as, "present here", and wondering if the writer has intended to say that or is trying to say something else. And questioning how effective are some lines? Are they effective when I know what the writer is saying even though the wording or style is not appealing to me...but then again, I can only guess as to what depth the writer was trying to say something at, so even if I think I understand, am I reaching the depth the writer has intended? I think we've all taken poetic liberities here and there, we have too or all our work will sound the same, but when is a poem effective and when isn't it? The same goes with particular lines and their relation towards the poem as a whole. For example, this poem here I think is effective, at least it was for me. I knew what the writer was saying though I don't agree with all the choices of words. But is the writer's intent to simply have the reader get the gist of his point or to take them to different depths regarding the subject matter? So in regards to the intent of the writer, is it effective or isn't it? Just thought I'd throw this out to be gnawed on. Anyone, any thoughts? Thanks, Trevor |
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