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Never the same
| Critical Analysis #2 |
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Never the same |
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jamesjiao Member
since 2000-04-12
Posts 268Backwaters of Avalon 
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There a shadow is lost in shadow, Here a swallow cries its widow. A spirit rising pure and bright, it reunites with the light. What auguries your soul divine Is it a plot of great design? I wonder lying in the stars But life forever left with mars. So what would be your final wish When death befalls and takes your flesh With me we watch the dawn's Champlain? Or be my princess once again? Our life is morning's precious boon and Never would it be the same. (Fourth stanza not yet completed) P.S Lake Champlain is found in the State of Vermont near Quebec (I believe it actually goes into Quebec). This poem is dedicated to a french friend killed in a car accident. I am trying to write in iambic tetrameter here, but obviously, the first two lines in the first stanza are both in trochee. i have heard somebody saying that it is ok to start the poem with trochee, then turning into iamb later on? Is it correct? if so, is it effective in my poem? On the third line of the third stanza, i refered to Lake Champlain. I am sure that the stress is on the first syllable, but since it is the name of something, is it ok to pronouce it stressing the second syllable instead of the first? Anyway, apart from these Q's, please do comment on any other problems in the poem. Thanks. - James The beauty of nature is displayed, not through itself, but through the creatures dwelling within its bosom. [This message has been edited by jamesjiao (05-21-2002 02:34 AM).] |
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| © Copyright 2002 James Jiao - All Rights Reserved | |||
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Hi James, Of course, you can mix and match however you want but for meter mix to be effective, there probably needs to be some reason for it. In a longer poem, this reason might just be to occasionally break to perceived monotony of a constant beat. In a shorter poem you may have to work a little harder for justification. One place where I have for it works is a the beginning. I'm not so sure I would do it on both lines though, again JMHO. Actually, your first line is not strictly trochee. It has an extra syllable. Then the fourth line is missing an unstressed syllable. This is more of a stumbling block than line one. It might be fixed by changing "it reunites" to "and reuniting." BTW, I checked Webster's just to be sure and Champlain is stressed on the last syllable so that line is fine. In fact, I think all the rest of the lines are pretty good iambic tetrameter. As for the content, I liked a lot of it but it does seem just a little disjointed. Maybe there is not enough information for me to understand what you are thinking or how some of those thoughts fit together. It needs to be a little more cohesive or understandable. I am particularly confused by the two lines quote: This seems incongruent, like a forced rhyme, if you don't give some justification. Hope MHO helps some. Pete |
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jamesjiao Member
since 2000-04-12
Posts 268Backwaters of Avalon |
Thanks for your comments. I think they are exactly what I want. Yes, you are right, the poem is a little incongruent, especially the first 2 lines in the first stanza and the lines that you mentioned. I will try to change them accordingly. I might delete this post (if i can) once i have done all the changes and repost it in the same forum. thanks again, Not a Poet. (what's your real name? I find it impolite to call you by that name  )- James |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
James - you can also simply add to this one in a reply... that way others can see the evolution and compare. Chris |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Thanks James. Name's Pete. And feel free to post it as a new thread too if you want but don't delete the original. The conversations related to original efforts as well as revisions can be very helpful as we all try to improve our writing. Thanks, Pete |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
James, I love to see someone working at their craft and trying to improve. One thing to remember in rhyming poetry is that the rhyming lines rule everything. What I mean by that is this..... You have a question about switching from trochee to iambic, or vice versa. The answer is in the rhyming lines. They must be the same, other than that you can do anything you want, change counts, accents, syllable counts, trochaic, iambic or whatever. I'll give you a couple of examples.. Kiss me like I used to feel. Let me know that love was real. The sands of time have passed me by To leave me asking only why. (I used trochee in the first two rhyming lines and iambic in the last two) Kiss me like I used to feel. The sands of time have passed me by. Let me know that love was real Instead of sitting, wondering why. (same thing..the first and third lines now are the rhyming lines and in trochee, as are the second and fourth in iambic) Syllabe counts do the same thing..... Kiss me like I used to feel. Do it now! Show me that your love is real Holy cow! LOL! Anyway, as long as the rhyming lines are equal to each other, you can do anything you want. As far as your poem goes, these are my observations.... In the first stanza, the syllable counts are off. The first two rhyming lines are 9 and 8 syllables. The second two are 8 and 7. With the counts off, there can be no flow. Second stanza has the syllable counts perfect and I think you can clearly see how much better it flows than the first. Third stanza is also exact with the counts. The line "here a swallow cries its widow" is lost on me. Of course it is not grammatically correct but, in poetry, we do have poetic license not to make it so. But I cannot identify with the phrase. A mother crying for her child, yes, but I've never thought of, or heard of, a swallow for it's widow. How does anything cry for it's widow, anyway? If my wife, for example, was a widow, I would be dead! Hey, don't mind me, James...I just ramble! Your line may be fine..it just doesn't strike me as something that carries its own weight. With me we watch the dawn's Champlain?... Not even poetic license can excuse this one. "So what would be your final wish" is future conditional....can't just switch to present tense to answer it. "dawn's Champlain" I assume refers to watching the dawn rising ove Lake Champlain but that would be Champlain's dawn.....dawn's Champlain makes no sense to me. Or perhaps you are referring to the dawn resembling a lake, which would make sense. You are saying "with me we watch the dawn's Champlain or be my princess once again as if those are two choice, two sides of the coin...like life-death or good-bad or success-fail. I find it hard to see a contrast between watching the dawn or being one's princess. James, I don't mean to say anything in a derrogatory way. One of my great shortcomings is that I tend to get too analytical. Perhaps you were following different trains of thought in writing your poem than I was in analyzing it. You may be right and I may be completely wrong (with the exception of the meter and flow issues). Those are just my thoughts. Take them to heart or take them with a grain of salt...hopefully I have said something that may help in some small way.... |
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jamesjiao Member
since 2000-04-12
Posts 268Backwaters of Avalon |
Thank you very much for your comments. Balladeer, Pete and Chris. English is not my first language, but I do have a passion for poetry. I often come to pip and marvel at some of the best poems that this site has to offer on the Net. Of course, it's not enough for me to just read, I also want to write. That's why I post my poems here, so people can comment on them. My point here is, feel free to be as critical as you can as long as your comments are constructive. Though grammar has become less of a problem for me now, I could still make mistakes regardless. I like challenges whose goals I can realistically achieve, and poetry is one of them. So the more people criticize my poem, the happier I become :-). - James |
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Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA |
That's great, James. For English not being your primary language, I would say you do remarkably well. You are doing it the right way...just grab that pen and write. Learn from eveything you do. We are all still learning. I have no doubt that, with your determination, you will do just fine... |
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