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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
Did God create Man, Or did Man create God? Are we the product of some higher being's free time, Or did we invent a purpose for our existence? Does God exist outside of The imagination of humankind, Or is He simply a manifestation Of some ingrained desire for perfection? How can I know the mind of God Unless I somehow helped create Him? Dare I presume that a supreme being Is simply the character created by our Collective consciousness? Who created whom here? "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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a_little_girl Member
since 2000-05-08
Posts 307San Alejandro, HI, USA |
This is some really deep thinking, Gofor. You poem made me stop and ponder a bit about God, and it made me think. --Little Girl |
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kcsgrandma Senior Member
since 2000-09-24
Posts 1522Presque Isle, ME |
Having had my previous arguments demolished  I won't presumed to venture an opinion. These are interesting questions though, and almost guaranteed to annoy somebody. Congratulations. To love another person is to see the face of God. - Les Miserables Marilyn |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
little girl, that was my intention--to make people think. kcsgrandma--I didn't mean to sound harsh in my reply, so if I did, I apologize. I welcome various opinions and the chance to refute them (that's where most of the joy in the debate is). So when I ask for argument, it's mostly because I want to debate with someone on the point, and I think I get a better understanding of my own position. "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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kcsgrandma Senior Member
since 2000-09-24
Posts 1522Presque Isle, ME |
No, you didn't sound harsh. I was kind of congratulating you, I guess. Actually, I thought about going back and arguing back, but was too busy to get to it. I appreciate your challenges to my thinking. Keep it up. To love another person is to see the face of God. - Les Miserables Marilyn |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
I'm always glad when I find someone who's willing to debate rationally and not take things personally. I thank you for your thoughts, both those that run parallel and against mine. "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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DawnG 
since 2000-06-23
Posts 1494United States |
Boy this is a piece that does make one think. My verdict is still out on it.. Dawn |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
Well, as long as I made ya think, then I got what I was wanting ."If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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Dennis L. White Senior Member
since 2000-02-17
Posts 1463Michigan, U.S.A. |
gofor42, This is a piece for thought all right! I believe in God, as I expressed in "What is this Life" posted in Spiritual Journeys. I believe Who created Whom is a valid discussion, probably not discussed enough! Thanks for the reminder to think about such an important subject! Dennis :^) Moonbeams radiate When the veiling cloud has passed Playful shadows dance Dennis L. White :^) |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
I, too, whole-heartedly believe in God...I just wish people would stop and consider the wonder and perfection of God occasionally, even if He really is beyond our understanding. "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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Alle'cram Senior Member
since 2000-02-28
Posts 1816Texas |
Hello go4; Let me give a word of caution since reading (you) believe in God. Sweetheart, God will not be mocked. Let me look up scriptures and send you privately (if you'd like to receive them) for your knowledge & understanding. If you wnt, send me a e & I'll send you scriptures. Otherwise, Amen to Dennis! He speaks for me too! God loves you so much, oh, these type questions and discussions hurt Him, and all who love the Lord, it's just not healthy if you believe in God to questions or provoke these discussions possibly being the cause of someone not knowing truth or turn away from God. To me, this poem doesn't stand a chance to provoke thought of subject matter. Either we believe Him or we don't!! What we speak with our mouths or write with our pens determines should be words of knowledge and love from the heart, not lifted off the brain for discussions (concerning God). Said in love for you, out of love for God and from my humble heart. Thanks & I responded because you said you do believe and after reading several of your poems that showed your desire to know peace and love, you are deserving to know such and it only comes from God, (that what you are talking about) Bless you sweetheart and take this to heart as it is from my heart and if you want a debate with questions or with scriptures as in learning,,....email me anytime! Love, Marcy |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
gofor42, I think we must come to the conclusion ultimately that God exists and is real (as an independent entity outside of ourselves). If we think otherwise, there are myriads of mysteries left unexplained. If he were merely an "idea" then who created the cosmos? Subsequently we would have been wise enough to create a "god" in our thoughts but barely able to touch the scientific mysteries of the universe (much less create them!). If God is merely what we as humanity have collectively imagined to somehow make ourselves feel better then away with this "god". Tell me who fashioned the mountains, the plains of the field, the raging seas, the stars and infinitude of galaxies (further than Hubble can see), and I will say worship HIM as the true God. So I guess to sum it up, I believe that incorrect ideas of God are fabricated and created by the human mind. That is what the scripture refers to as idolatry (and yes even those who profess Christianity often have these incorrect graven images in their psyches). But believe you me, there is a Creator of all things who created you and me and everything without our permission ... it was a gift, and was according to his own pleasure and purpose. If you disagree, try to imagine when you were too weak to feed yourself and had to have your diapers changed. God was still fueling the stars, pouring his energy into the oceans, and generally overseeing the universe while you could only say "gaa gaa". This is not to shame you... We were ALL that way and must confess our need of a God bigger than ourselves. May I also add that God is more than a Higher Power... He is personal and loving power. And he doesn't condemn you for your questions and neither do I. But he wants us all to know the truth. The Truth will set us free. Thanks for taking time to read this. No offence intented. |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
I'm beginning to see that by writing this poem, I've opened up a can of worms I'm not sure I can deal with. But, seeing as how it's been put to paper and people have read it, I think I should respond to the best of my ability. What is expressed here and in some other poems I've written--though I'm not sure if I've posted them here or not--is what can only be described as a very personal struggle against what I know and feel and believe with my entire being, and what the secularized society we live in has tried to beat into my head throughout my life. I can't say that I have no doubt in the existence of God--to do so would be to presume that I am infinite, because to know infinite is to be that. Therefore, I cannot say for certain that God does or does not exist--that is where faith comes in. I am only a mortal, a finite being with some purpose not yet known by me. I do believe that there is a God, a supreme being who created me and loves me despite the stupid things I often do. But this God also gave me a capacity for free will, imagination, and doubt. These three things all too often come together in people to form things that may be undesireable--as this instance may be pointing out. I think the main thrust of this poem--and not everyone may agree with me on this--is that we need God. Ignore for a moment the argument of whether or not God really does exist. There is something ingrained in humanity that leads to a desire to have some higher being--be it God, Allah, or whatever name you wish to call it--to look up to and to strive for. Virtually every corner of our globe has contrived an idea of "God," be it in a monotheistic form or polythesitic (in which case the many different "gods" could be seen as merely different faces or facets of one "God"). How is it we all develop this same basic concept? It's one of the most basic components of humanity. We all have some notion of God--even the atheist who does not believe in God thus creates a notion of God and simply rejects it. But how is this? How can we all have an idea of God? Is it just something we create to comfort ourselves, or is it because God decided that we all deserve to have some part of Him inside of us that makes us look to Him? I don't claim to know. I just want to know. I have an opinion on what I think it might be, but I'll never know for sure until I'm through this life. As I've rambled on too long in my reply, I hope I have cleared up any confussion or consteration my original post may have caused. If I've offended anyone's sensibilities, I apologize. All I was trying to do was make people think about their own relation with God. If you think about it, in a small way, we all conceive our own "God." God is different to each person, and so it could be said that maybe we, in some little way, "create" God as we want to see Him. "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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Broken_Winged_Angel Senior Member
since 2000-04-06
Posts 994Small Town, Somewhere |
Good question. |
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gofor42 Member
since 2000-01-23
Posts 143Arkansas |
Having created a bigger hullabullo than I imagined possible with this, I'm now going to go try and answer the question for myself...what I really wanted to do with this poem was present the first half of the logical process I've followed lately to rationalize my belief in the existence of God (that's what I get for taking a Philosophy course). The second half should appear in this forum within the day. "If you can't annoy somebody, there's little point in writing." --Kingsley Amis |
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