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Passions in Poetry

Get Off Your Assonance!

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serenity blaze
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25 posted 08-08-2009 06:04 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

relentless these:
my dreams are screams
the painted open mouth of "O"
the torque increased
my tainted sheets
still creased
from last night's episode...
crosscountry83
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since 07-30-2009
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26 posted 08-08-2009 11:57 PM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

Sir Balladeer,

I think the poem I tried to write with assonance got lost in all posts.  I don't know though hehe.

Rileigh
Dr.Moose1
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27 posted 08-09-2009 12:56 AM       View Profile for Dr.Moose1   Email Dr.Moose1   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dr.Moose1

OMG! Balladeer, now you've even managed to lure serenity in here! And at one time you thought you were wasting your efforts! Perseverence m'friend.
Doc
Balladeer
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28 posted 08-09-2009 02:11 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Good grief! It IS her!! She got off, or rather on, her assonance and submitted an excellent piece. I will  never doubt again!!
serenity blaze
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29 posted 08-09-2009 07:04 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

*raising my hand*

Is there a difference between slant rhyme and assonance? Or does it depend on which way the wind is blowin'?
serenity blaze
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30 posted 08-09-2009 07:14 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

tsk to me...

I forgot to give hugs and kisses.



Balladeer
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31 posted 08-09-2009 09:00 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Hey, serenity  gal! Actually there is no similarity between the two. Slant rhyme is using words that "sorta" rhyme at the ends of the line.

I tried to find a bar
But couldn't find one near.

Assonance is using similar sounding vowels within words, like you did in your example.

That's the slant of it
crosscountry83
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32 posted 08-09-2009 03:17 PM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

Sir Balladeer,

Sorry to be annoying, but I'm re-posting this because I think it got overlooked.  If not, just ignore it...

"I gl(a)nce up (a)t my d(a)d.
I f(i)nd his m(i)nd in m(i)ne.
Why c(a)n he (a)ct so s(a)d?
Because h(i)gh fl(i)es the t(i)me."

Rileigh
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33 posted 08-09-2009 09:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Hi, Rileigh....yes, it was overlooked, sorry.

You got the vowel sounds in nicely and provided the assonance requested...good work!
crosscountry83
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34 posted 08-10-2009 09:31 AM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

Thanks, What about meter, I know I've been having lots of trouble with it, what can I change?

Rileigh
Marc-Andre
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35 posted 08-12-2009 02:52 AM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

I'm glad to see that the workshop is well and alive - the last few times I have posted here, I've never got a response  

Here's a translation of Rimbaud with which I've focused mostly on assonance and consonance; I've followed the original French syllable-count, and - with some metrical substitutions - have kept it mostly iambic (it is, after all, a translation.)


A DREAM FOR WINTER
To xxx Her

Winter: we will go in a little pink caboose
              adorned with blue cushions.
We will feel well. A nest of crazy kisses rest
             in each mellow recess.

You’ll close your eyes, and, in the looking glass of ice,
             grimace at shadows in twilight.
Those are monstrous, aggressive creatures: a dark mass
              of demons and of wolves, all black.

Then you’ll become aware of your cheek being scraped
by a little kiss, which, like a crazy spider,
                   will run along your nape...

and you will tell me, “Seek!”, as you let your head lean;
- and we will take some time to find this tiny beast
                 - which does travel a lot.


Here's the original French poem for reference:

REVER POUR L’HIVER
A xxx Elle.

L’hiver, nous irons dans un petit wagon rose
              Avec des coussins bleus.
Nous serons bien. Un nid de baisers fous repose
             Dans chaque coin moelleux.

Tu fermeras l’oeil, pour ne point voir: par la glace,
             Grimacer les ombres de soirs,
Ces monstruosites hargneuses, populace
              De demons noirs et de loups noirs.

Puis tu te sentiras la joue egratignee...
Un petit baiser, comme une folle araignee,
       Te courra par le cou...

Et tu me diras: “Cherche!”, en inclinant la tete;
- Et nous prendrons du temps a trouver cette bete
                 - Qui voyage beaucoup.

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-12-2009 03:24 AM).]

Marc-Andre
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36 posted 08-13-2009 12:03 AM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

This one uses poetic devices. Will it also go without response?

You wrote:

There were a couple who never returned after being critiqued and I'll apologize for that. I've tried to keep things friendly, encouraging and positive. For those who have stuck with it, I thank you.

I say:

I welcome critiques, and the more thorough the better. I had not returned for a while after NOT being critiqued at all.

I understand that there are circumstances in life when one is out of time, so I thought I'd come back when things seemed alive again. But somehow, I've got my doubts...if you can dispel them, I'll be more than delighted.

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-13-2009 12:34 AM).]

crosscountry83
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since 07-30-2009
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37 posted 08-13-2009 12:36 AM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

Don't worry, Sir Balladeer has a lot of poems to review, he will get to your eventually.  If not, just *bump* it to the top.  He hasn't answered my question above either, so chances are he hasn't been on this thread... be patient haha.

Rileigh
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38 posted 08-13-2009 03:46 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Ya know, Mark, we all have had to bump our work up from time to time.  Sometimes it gets lost in the posts.  Sometimes there are things going on when Balladeer just can't be here.  This is a huge undertaking for one individual.  Why not do like the rest of us and just nag him?  It makes it far more fun here and you get the desired result.  Critique.  

We could also consider taking up a collection and offer him a raise.  Last I heard, he made nada for all this free advice and expertise he offers.  I think we could, at least, offer him brownies (points).

Welcome back.

Alison
Marc-Andre
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39 posted 08-20-2009 01:33 PM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

Here's another one, where I've tried to actually make the sound structure of the poem an ugly one:


10 years later: 14 April 1922

I met a sailor from a dated era
who boasted to a deafened flock of drunk
riffraff about the riches in his trunk
and of a beautiful young bride named Sarah.
In this odd pub an hour drive from Canberra
across the street from where I had found bunk,
I pitied this old bloke, his fortunes sunk
in rum, and squired but by his own Chimera.
“My name is Edward Smith, the ‘Millionaire’s
Captain.’ God himself couldn’t sink my ship!”
It was then I saw Beelzebub come in,
who said: I, who shares Santa Claus’ despairs
since Lust increased dust-destined souls to whip,
proclaim you ‘Pride’, a premier deadly sin!”
Balladeer
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40 posted 08-20-2009 04:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

A very interesting write, Marc, constructed with wrap-around rhymes that make it a rhymed poem but reading like free verse. That's a good style.

I thought the first half of the poem was excellent. I could see and feel the scenario you painted. Beginning with the "My name is..", however, I started to feel a little confused and lost the flavor I had had. God knows that I am not well-schooled in free verse and things obvious to many tend to get past me and I'm afraid that happened here....my problem, not yours. COuld you  enlighten me on the ending?
Marc-Andre
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41 posted 08-20-2009 10:19 PM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

Thanks Balladeer.  I had written a response, but then thought that I should clarify within the poem. I've already posted a revision below.

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-20-2009 11:57 PM).]

Marc-Andre
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42 posted 08-20-2009 11:49 PM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

First Revision

I met a sailor from a dated era
who boasted to deserting flocks of drunk
riffraffs about the riches in his trunk
and of a beautiful young bride named Sarah.
In this odd pub an hour drive from Canberra
across the street from where I had found bunk,
I pitied this old bloke, his fortunes sunk
in rum, and squired but by his own Chimera.

“My name is Edward Smith, the ‘Millionaire’s
Captain,’ the one who said that God himself
couldn’t sink his ship.” Sunk are his Turkish bath
and Café Parisien. Stripped of his wares,
this Job of Satan, this cast out nonself
to God, must tread an ever downward path.
Marc-Andre
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since 12-07-2008
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43 posted 08-21-2009 03:04 AM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

hiccup*

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-21-2009 07:30 AM).]

Marc-Andre
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44 posted 08-21-2009 03:05 AM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

Revision Two


I met a sailor from a dated era
who boasted to deserting flocks of drunk
riffraff about the silver in his trunk
and an exquisite consort christened Sarah.
In this odd pub an hour drive from Canberra
across the street from where I'd found my bunk,
I pitied this old bloke, his fortunes sunk
in rum, and squired but by his own Chimera.

“My name is Edward Smith, the ‘Millionaire’s
Captain, and I still claim that God himself
can’t sink my ship.” Sunk are his Turkish bath
and Café Parisien. Stripped of his wares,
this Satan’s Job, this cast away nonself
to God, must tread an ever sloping path.

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-21-2009 07:29 AM).]

Balladeer
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45 posted 08-21-2009 09:01 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Hello, Marc!  Yes, I had read your original notes but didn't have time to respond at the time. As far as referring to it as wrap-around rhyming free verse, I didn't pick up the metrical structure. To me, it began...

i MET a SAIL-or FROM a DAT-ed E-ra ...................................... (good iambic for those who would accent 'from'))
who BOAST-ed TO de-SER-ting FLOCKS of DRUNK...................(also good iambic)
RIFF-raff a-BOUT the SIL-ver IN his TRUNK.................................(begins trochaic)
and an EX-qui-site CON-sort named SAR-ah.............................(anapest, anapest, anapest )
in THIS odd PUB an HO-ur DRIVE from can-BER-ra....................(good iambic except for "from can")

The Ozymandius reference (which happens to be one  of my favorite poems of all times) is clear now that you pointed it out and I should have seen it. My apologies for that.

As  far as your revisions go, first of all, I think the  changes in the second stanza are a  vast improvement over the original.

and of a beautiful young bride named Sarah.......first revision
and an exquisite consort christened Sarah.........2nd revision

The first one flows much smoother with the B sounds than the second one with the hard C's, since these lines represent the sad recounting of memories and not actions, where a "hard" sound would add power, instead of melancholy. In  the second, though, you did drop  the "of", which I agree with completely, which hindered the smooth flow to the rest of the line. SO I would come up with - and a beautiful young bride names Sarah

across the street from where I had found bunk,
across the street from where I'd found my bunk,

Interesting here. There are purists who hate contractions in poetry unless absolutely necessary. I'm not one.   The "where I had found bunk" is a little clumsy to me because  one needs to put the accent on "had" to maintain the flow and yet it is followed by an action word, instead of a passive one, which makes a difference. The second revision is fine, but I'm not wild about the sounds of  "I'd found", in contrast to the smooth sounds of the use of "s" in across and street and the "r" in where. "Finding" a bunk is not necessary, anyway. I'd prefer something like across the street from where I had my bunk. In that way, "had" will receive it's proper accent, being followed by a  passive word and the meaning of the sentence is not changed.

I will have to get the second stanza later since I'm off to work but those are my thought and suggestions so far. I will say that I enjoy the poem a little more each time I read it

Marc-Andre
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46 posted 08-21-2009 11:43 AM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

Heartfelt thanks for taking the time to critique in such depth, Balladeer. My scansion of these two lines was different:

RIFF-RAFF/ aBOUT/the SIL/ver IN /his TRUNK/
and an /exQUIS/ite CON/sort CHRIS/tened SA/rah


I tend to pronounce “riffraff” has a spondee, but you are right in that the primary stress is on the first syllable and probably should be scanned as a tronchaic substitution. Some people pronounce “exquite” with the stress on the second syllable. Also, as there will often be a secondary stress on the second syllable for those who put the primary on the first, I thought it might pass for a minor ionic “and an EX-QUI/site.” I see it didn’t go through as I thought. I'd like to keep vary the meter once or twice in that piece, but I realise that I need to establish the meter firmly in the opening lines first.

I will also reconsider the sounds of the second revision. I’d like to keep “consort” as it also has a naval definition. For “exquisite”, I’ve also had “glamorous” in mind, has I’m trying to include words that foreshadow the glamours of the Titanic, the “Turkish bath and Café Parisien” of the second stanza. How about “glamourous consort"? I'd also like to salvage "christened"  for its naval connotation. I know there is an anapest in there, but how about

"and his olympian consort, christened Sarah."

(The Titanic was a ship of the "Olympic" class. It also brings an allusion to the "olympian" greatness
of the Greek God. "Sarah", while actually being Captain Smith's wife name, is also the Hebrew for "princess." Am I condensing too much?)
Other sounds are ugly (those “uh” and “unk” sounds ) here as the theme I’m trying to work into it is Pride. The dead Captain Smith in this piece is blinded by his own hubris. All the glories of his past are at the bottom of the ocean, and pride is all that remains. But you’re convincing me that a line that makes him more human (where he mentions his wife) is in order. Or is it? I need to consider this more thoroughly.

Also, in L7, I'm changing "bloke" to "gob" (sailor), to foreshadow "God" in the sestet (also "Job" at the sight level.)

I look forward to reading your take on the second stanza.

Mark

[This message has been edited by Marc-Andre (08-21-2009 12:35 PM).]

Marc-Andre
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Posts 500


47 posted 08-21-2009 12:48 PM       View Profile for Marc-Andre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marc-Andre

A quick revision, not yet addressing all points:

I met a sailor from a dated era
who boasted to deserting flocks of drunk
riffraff about the silver in his trunk
and his Olympian consort, christened Sarah.
In this odd pub an hour drive from Canberra
across the street from where I had my bunk,
I pitied this old gob, his fortunes sunk
in rum, and squired but by his own Chimera.

“My name is Edward Smith, the ‘Millionaire’s
Captain! And I still claim that God himself
can’t sink my ship!” Sunk are his Turkish bath
and Café Parisien. Stripped of his wares,
this Satan’s Job, this cast away nonself
to God, must tread an ever sloping path.


Changed "exquisite" to "Olympian" (L4); "I'd found" to "I had"  and "bloke" to "gob" (L7)
Balladeer
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48 posted 08-21-2009 10:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Marc, yes, I see what you mean about riff-raff and exquisite. We are all creatures  of our surroundings. Down here, it's EXquiSITE but I know that for others it's exQUIsite. Ain't English wonderful? Olympian consort works for me. I would have a period after bunk, instead of a comma.

“My name is Edward Smith, the ‘Millionaire’s
Captain! And I still claim that God himself
can’t sink my ship!” Sunk are his Turkish bath
and Café Parisien. Stripped of his wares,
this Satan’s Job, this cast away nonself
to God, must tread an ever sloping path.

I have a little problem with those first two lines, perhaps because the second sentence is the only one that begins trochaic. The fourth line open with an anapest. I don't know, Marc. I can read it straight through and it reads like an article or paragraph, minus the poetic flavor in the first stanza, but I have no advice on how to change it in it's current form. Sorry...
crosscountry83
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since 07-30-2009
Posts 335


49 posted 08-21-2009 11:53 PM       View Profile for crosscountry83   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for crosscountry83

I don't know if it's ok to suggest anything, but maybe using less enjambment would make it less like a paragraph.  I don't know, just my thoughts... if I'm not supposed to say stuff like that in this forum please disregard.

Rileigh
 
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