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Passions in Poetry

Those Smelly Feet!

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Essorant
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25 posted 05-05-2008 01:00 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Balladeer

I think most experts agree that a word with more than one syllable has only one syllable that has the most amount of stress, and that is what I am calling the main stress, and main stresses are generally the beats when put in a poetic pattern.  But as an exception, I pointed out that other syllables may sometimes be used as beats as well.  This often needs to be based on where the main stress is though.  For example, you can get away with ENterPRISE or ENterprise, because EN is the main and stationary stress (unless you use the word unnaturally or with a foreign accent).  A main stress in a word (such as EN in ENterprise) is always followed by a syllable with less stress (as ter in ENterprise), and then the syllable after (the prise of ENterprise) always has a little more stress than the syllable before it, only because stress alternates between less and more, therefore the word stress of ENterprise, may show up with one or two beats in poetry: ENterprise or ENterPRISE.   But the most amount of stress is still on the EN- of enterprise, and therefore that syllable is generally always a beat.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (05-05-2008 03:10 PM).]

Essorant
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26 posted 05-05-2008 03:31 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Alison

It is not necessary to use the concept of "feet" and the special terminologies that go along with it.  Whoever understands stress, shall understand what is going on within any example of meter, whether or not the concept of "feet" is used.  For a beginner or for one struggling, though, I think it somewhat hindering to deal with the clutter of "feet" "anapests" "spondees" etc, that are based on stresses, when that same person may not be able to recognize stresses yet.  Just focus on stress. Once you understand that, everything else shall be much more understandable too    

Balladeer
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27 posted 05-05-2008 06:03 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That's fine, essorant. As I mentioned, this is not the place for a debate over such a point and will do little more than confuse an already confused person. As you point out, stress is the answer...and the less stress Alison or anyone goes through to learn this manner of writing is best.

Looking forward to the apple
nakdthoughts
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28 posted 05-05-2008 06:55 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Thanks Mike. I  have never had much trouble with rhythm or rhyme. Don't know if it comes naturally or if  my previous poetry  site drummed it into me way back when

I post what sounds good to my ear ...


M
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29 posted 05-05-2008 06:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I understand, Maureen, and that ear is very important. Ok, you won the first leg of the triple crown. Anapestic is next. Let's see what ya got!
Nan
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30 posted 05-05-2008 09:40 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Write a poem about smelly feet?  I can do that...


Playing barefoot is fun, donít you think?
Itís too bad that my feet really stink!
Iíve tried cleaning and scrubbing my toes
So my feet can be freely exposed,
But no matter how hard I might try
All those anapests lead me awry!
They are having a toejamb-oree
Without asking permission from me.
Twixt my toes is not where they belong.
I wonít have it Ė Iím shedding my thongs!



Not A Poet
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31 posted 05-05-2008 10:09 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

OK Teach. if I understood right, this is how you wanted it posted and linked.
Link here
Go kinda easy huh? This is the first thing I have written that's not a computer program in a long time.

Pete
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32 posted 05-05-2008 11:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Lookee here! What's this sight that I see?
Is that Nan writing something for me?
Whoda thought she could get so darn brave
That she'd finally come out of her cave?

It's a miracle, boys, that's a fact
One could say that she's been Michael Macked!
I can easily rest in my grave
Knowing Nan has come out of her cave!


By the way, folks, her poem is a wonderful anapestic display of how it's done right...so what's new?
Alison
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33 posted 05-06-2008 12:30 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Wishing on the Tides


The ocean whispered promise, hearing young loveís wish
as gentle tides seemed to sip lightly at sand shores.  
The tantalizing breeze was the taste of first kiss;  
now memories lost in the early days of yore.

A silhouette, worn edges, danced on jewels, smoothed bright,
such explosion of color painted the new dawn.
Framed shadows, mermaid pictured, sunrise washed warm light.
The gentle current carried her sweet, plaintive song.

Pure longing rose to lift deep waters darker blue.
Her pale arms tenderly stretched towards golden lit shores;
to capture his heartís desire, her love was true.
Tides blustered fiercely, setting forth an angry roar.

Once peaceful sea, churned wildly; its intent clear
to sweep a stalwart man to his new loverís home.
A sailorís given one wish that he longs for dear;
now land-locked no more, he swims freely in sea foam.

When tides lap golden sand shores, and dusk frames moon light,
one can hear haunting music lifting with the waves,
and lovers dance, as forever one, close and tight.
Their night light show incites awe, mere mortals rave.


---

Alison
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34 posted 05-06-2008 02:11 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

sigh...

Karen drags her butt to the chalkboard..

*ahem*

I am afraid to tackle this.
It's different. I know it is.
But trust that I am trying it.
Iambic stuff is my third tit.

*wince*

Essorant
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35 posted 05-06-2008 01:52 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Here is a little attempt to paraphrase the beginning of the bible with anapestic meter.  I always thought the bible would read much better with rhyme       


First Elohim, with word and with hand,
Both created the heavens and land
That was shapeless and wanting of grace ,
Darkness over the fathomy face.
And the spirit and breathing of God
Then o'erfluttered the waters abroad.
He said words thus: "Be light!" and it stood,
He saw light and he saw it was good,
And from darkness divided the light
Called it "day" and the darkness the "night"
There was evening and morning's red ray
Thus it went: the good work of one day.

Munda
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36 posted 05-06-2008 04:19 PM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

Too Much! You're all too quick! I can't keep up! I shall spent tomorrow evening on reading and replying.
Balladeer
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37 posted 05-06-2008 09:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree, Essorant, that the Bible would certainly sound better in rhyme There were too many deviations to call it anapestic but it was clever
Balladeer
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38 posted 05-06-2008 09:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Alison, you're doing MUCH better! Your syllable count on this last one is on the money. Undortunately, even with the syllable count correct, the rythym must be good and consistent for it to matter.

The ocean whispered promise, hearing young loveís wish
as gentle tides seemed to sip lightly at sand shores.  
The tantalizing breeze was the taste of first kiss;  
now memories lost in the early days of yore.

A silhouette, worn edges, danced on jewels, smoothed bright,
such explosion of color painted the new dawn.
Framed shadows, mermaid pictured, sunrise washed warm light.
The gentle current carried her sweet, plaintive song.

Pure longing rose to lift deep waters darker blue.
Her pale arms tenderly stretched towards golden lit shores;
to capture his heartís desire, her love was true.
Tides blustered fiercely, setting forth an angry roar.

Once peaceful sea, churned wildly; its intent clear
to sweep a stalwart man to his new loverís home.
A sailorís given one wish that he longs for dear;
now land-locked no more, he swims freely in sea foam.

When tides lap golden sand shores, and dusk frames moon light,
one can hear haunting music lifting with the waves,
and lovers dance, as forever one, close and tight.
Their night light show incites awe, mere mortals rave.

heck out the bold areas. That is where the iambic is lost because of using either two stressed or two unstressed syllables or words together. Say them out loud and learn to recognize stressed and unstressed sounds.

Keep it up. You are improving greatly
Alison
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39 posted 05-06-2008 09:54 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Okay, I am going to look at this one again.  I understand what you are saying (which is some progress).  

Thank you - and I'll have something in here tomorrow.  Are you getting tired of me yet?

A
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40 posted 05-06-2008 09:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Never!
Munda
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41 posted 05-07-2008 12:49 AM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

Alison: I really admire your determination. I've been there and know exactly how you are feeling, but don't give up. You WILL (to your own surprise) suddenly understand 'stress'. I tried to explain 'iambic' to an other poet once and thought it may be of some help to you, so I copied it for you. Hope it helps and good luck!

quote:
Anyway, here some "guidelines" I used myself to get the "hang of it" and some mistakes I made and still make. LOL

Once I finally figured out what "stress & unstressed" meant, I started writing with one - and two syllable words and tried other words over and over again. Let's use the word cat and other related words. Cat is what's called a "strong" word, so that would translate to CAT=DUM, kitten would be KITten/DUM-da. How about tomcat? Right... TOMcat/DUM-da. See you're getting the hang of it.   Throw in a litterbox (LITterBOX) and you're ready to write a line in meter:
The kitten's litterbox is coloured green - the KITtens LITterBOX is COLoured GREEN.

See, it doesn't matter what you write at this stage. Use anything to get the hang of meter. Remember though to start each line with a soft/unstressed word/syllable to get iambic and to use an even number of syllables to keep it iambic from beginning to end. When you start with a soft/unstressed word, you should end with a strong/stressed word/syllable.

Of course there's the problem "how is a word pronounced" in different parts of the world? Let's take "memory." Personally I would say: me-mo-ry, but lots of people would say it's mem-ry. Hmm! How confusing! Therefore I use memory when I mean me-mo-ry and write mem'ry when I want it to be read as a two syllable word. Yeah, I found my ways to work around some problems.   Anyway, I try to avoid using too many of those words in a poem, because it might confuse the reader.

One of the mistakes I frequently made in the past, being too focused on meter, is that I shuffled words around until the meter was correct, but I ended up with perfect meter in a line which was no longer pleasant English to read. That's when we "forced" it into meter. LOL

I try to write as much as possible in lines one would use when you'd "say" them instead of writing them. No wonder I rewrote so many of my "early" poetry. Looking back at them, they were only first drafts, although at the time I thought they were perfect.

Anyway, start with "easy" words to get the hang of meter and play with words. The fun part is: you'll get very good in finding different words with the same meaning, but different stress. Yes, structured poetry means work! Unless of course you have this natural talent like Liz for meter.

Just some of my thoughts I hope will be of any help to you.


p.s. I still struggle with meter!
Alison
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42 posted 05-07-2008 01:18 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Wishing on the Tides


The ocean whispers promises of young loveís wish
as gentle tides swell to rush quickly upon shores.  
Soft breezes tantalize while savoring pure kiss;  
new memories, once only tales from days of yore.

A silhouette, moves slowly, glassy waters bright
as pastels paint the sunrise lifting a new dawn.
A mermaid levitates from topaz morning light.
The gentle current carries a soft, plaintive song.

Her entreaties stretch across waters saline blue.
Such expressive eyes beseeching him leave the shores;
to captivate his heart, her desire is true.
Tides bluster fiercely, setting forth an angry roar.

Once peaceful water rolls, the intention now clear;
to sweep this stalwart man to his new loverís home.
A sailorís given one wish that he may long to hear;
now locked to land no more, he swims in oceanís foam.

When nocturnal moon washes shells in deep of night
soft melodies rise above whispered peaceful waves,
and, embracing, the lovers song incites delight.
Their adoration draws the stars to hold and save.


Alison

----------

Okay, my fingers are crossed.  I even did the bold thing that you do so I could see what I was doing.  I even found myself counting in my head - I feel like Eliza Doolittle.  I know if I can just say the "rain in spain falls mainly in the plains" you will start dancing.  Yep, that's my vision anyway.

Munda,  this is so kind of you and I have printed out all the responses to save and read over.  I appreciate your encouragement.  I am feeling a bit 'duncey' right now.  But .. ins spite of the frustration, I am having lots of fun!

Alison

[This message has been edited by Alison (05-07-2008 03:33 AM).]

Essorant
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43 posted 05-07-2008 03:10 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
There were too many deviations to call it anapestic


Indeed, I have difficulty coming up with so many unstressed syllables.  Does this work any better:

First Elohim, with word and with hand,
Both created the heavens and land
That was shapeless and empty of grace.
There was dark on the fathomy face.
And the spirit and breathing of God
Had o'erfluttered the waters abroad.
He then spoke thus: "Be light!" and it stood,
There was light and he saw it was good,
And from darkness divided the light,
Called it "day" and the darkness the "night".
There was evening and morning's red ray
Thus it went: the good work of one day.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (05-07-2008 06:11 PM).]

Balladeer
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44 posted 05-07-2008 06:25 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Essorant, actually my saying "too many" was overstated and I apologize.

The areas that struck me were as follows:

I'm not sure how Elohim is correctly pronounced but I assume the accent is on EL. If that is the case, then the beginning is not anapestic, nor is it if the accent is on the second syllable, with FIRST being a stressed word.

2nd line...BOTH cre-AT-ed....not anapestic. BOTH is too strong. Perhaps if you substituted WHICH it would be more suitable.

Actually the rest of it is very good and maintains the correct meter throughout. Nice job.

Balladeer
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45 posted 05-07-2008 07:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The ocean whispers promises of young loveís wish
as gentle tides swell to rush quickly upon shores.  
Soft breezes tantalize while savoring pure kiss;  
new memories, once only tales from days of yore.

A silhouette, moves slowly, glassy waters bright
as pastels paint the sunrise lifting a new dawn.
A mermaid levitates from topaz morning light.
The gentle current carries a soft, plaintive song.

Her entreaties stretch across waters saline blue.
Such expressive eyes beseeching him leave the shores;
to captivate his heart, her desire is true.
Tides bluster fiercely, setting forth an angry roar.

Once peaceful water rolls, the intention now clear;
to sweep this stalwart man to his new loverís home.
A sailorís given one wish that he may long to hear;
now locked to land no more, he swims in oceanís foam.

When nocturnal moon washes shells in deep of night
soft melodies rise above whispered peaceful waves,
and, embracing, the lovers song incites delight.
Their adoration draws the stars to hold and save.

Alison, you're getting better but you still need to read the lines aloud and listen for the stressed (or strong) syllable or lines. Munda gave some wonderful advice.

Case in point...your second line.

as gentle tides swell to rush quickly upon shores.  

"as", of course, is unstressed. "gen" is stressed, "tle" is unstressed and "tides" is stressed. All good so far but then "swell" comes along and it is stressed so you have "tides swell" together, two stressed words...a no-no. "to" is unstressed and "rush" is stressed (good) but followed by "quick", which is also stressed so you have "RUSH QUICK-ly, two stressed syllables together, a second no-no. "-ly is unstressed but so is "up-", which puts two unstressed little buggers side by side, followed by "-on shores", two stresses.

You need to read it, recognize the accents and eliminate areas in need of work.

As GENT-le TIDES then SWELL to RUSH up-ON the SHORES.

That is iambic. You need to experiment around and find words that allow you to maintain the meter.

One piece of advise I always give is....never fall in love with a line. There are always other ways to say something which will maintain the meter if yours does not. Find them. (The only exception to this rule is that, if the line is so incredible you MUST use it, then make the rest of the poem fit the meter the line is in.)

Keep trying...I'm here!
Alison
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46 posted 05-08-2008 03:44 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Wishing on the Tides


On whispers, breezes lift the longing wish  
to ocean fairies flying over shores.
The winds may carry craving's need for bliss;
this wish on waves some lovers do implore.

A mermaid sailing upon ocean's light,
the pastels paint a vibrant shade this dawn.
As dreamy aura soars off topaz light
the currents wash her notes of plaintive song.

While solo stretches over waters blue
a longing draws her lover from the shore;
she suffers growing need, as love is true.
The ocean swelters, heated passion pours.

With waters rolling, all is crystal clear;
to take one to his loverís saline home.
The oceans swirl to show the love so pure.
He lives with her in depth of frothing foam.

The moon, so silver, watches from the sky,
as music wells in duets shared in waves.
Then, within stars, the magic reaches high
the ocean fairies sprinkle 'wishing days'.

...

Alison

(I am not quitting until I drive one of us to drink)


[This message has been edited by Alison (05-08-2008 12:52 PM).]

Munda
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47 posted 05-08-2008 12:12 PM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda



Allison! You're almost there! As far as I can tell only four small errors.

inSTILL - maRine - aMONG - creATE.
But then, I could be wrong, after all I'm Dutch and nuts.

Back to Anna Pest for me. The girl is giving me a headache.
Alison
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48 posted 05-08-2008 12:51 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Munda,

Thank you for the encouragement and suggestions.  I made those changes and a few more that I edited while waiting for my latte at the drive-through stand.  

My head has a bruise from banging it against my screen!

xoxoxox to you both (never forgetting the ever patient Balladeer),

A
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49 posted 05-08-2008 06:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Alison....what can I say? I feel like I've just witnessed the birth of a poet. What an incredible improvement and what tenacity you demonstrate! I am very proud of you, miss. This is truly awesome. I think that, if you look at your first attempt and compare it to the last one, you will see the incredible difference.

Before your head gets too big, however, there WAS one mistake.

A mermaid sailing upon ocean's light,

Two unstressed syllables together (ing+up). That's it. You may now go back to feeling brilliant....and deservedly so.

One more thing.....

One of the traps rhymers fall into (and what rhymers are criticized most heavily on) is that they throw in words that shouldn't be there for the sole purpose on maintaning the rythym.Your "do" in the first line and a couple "so"'s qualify for that. Be careful not to let that look obvious.

Now go get drunk! You deserve it!
 
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