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Nan
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0 posted 2001-11-06 11:50 AM


OK - How's about we have total chaos this month - Like we don't always, right?

Everybody can submit a question about any aspect of poetry they choose...

Questions can be about meter, rhyme scheme, imagery, poetic formats... anything you choose..

BUT - Once the rest of us have sufficiently answered your question, you've gotta write a poem that shows you now understand...  

Doc - no cheating - no easy questions here... Let's make this at least a little bit challenging..

So - Who wants to ask about a double sestina?..

Eating my apples now

© Copyright 2001 Nancy Ness - All Rights Reserved
Duncan
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since 2001-08-07
Posts 5455

1 posted 2001-11-07 12:13 PM


No wonder I'm the teacher's pet...I'm always the first to class.

Ok, sounds cool.  Hhmmmm, think I'll write a rhyming poem, somebody tell me what rhyming is.

BTW...I love chaos, it's always been a good class for me.  Almost forgot, double sestina, isn't that when two people lay down in the afternoon to take a nap?

[This message has been edited by Duncan (edited 11-07-2001).]

Kit McCallum
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2 posted 2001-11-07 09:18 AM


Hi Nan!  

Do you mind if I sit in on this class? I've had a question that keeps cropping up for me, and would appreciate running it past ya'll for some advice.  

wayoutwalt
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since 1999-06-22
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TEXAS (it's all big)
3 posted 2001-11-07 10:26 AM


I wanna play just let me sit on it for awhile and I'll be back to yuh
Interloper
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Member Rara Avis
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Deep in the heart
4 posted 2001-11-07 04:28 PM


I'll bite, what IS a double sestina?
Nan
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5 posted 2001-11-08 09:10 AM


Um.. Interloper - Are you SURE you wanna ask that question???...
Janet Marie
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since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554

6 posted 2001-11-08 01:18 PM


Ut-Oh ... 'Loper said the S word  

here....youre gonna need this...  



Titia Geertman
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since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182
Netherlands
7 posted 2001-11-08 02:45 PM


Interloper, you'll be sooo sorry you've asked  

The double S, oh my oh my  

Good luck dear,

Titia

A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website. http://communities.msn.com/Titiasplace/

Duncan
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since 2001-08-07
Posts 5455

8 posted 2001-11-08 04:05 PM


SESTINA
A fixed form consisting of six 6-line (usually unrhymed) stanzas in which the end words of the first stanza recur as end words of the following five stanzas in a successively rotating order and as the middle and end words of each of the lines of a concluding envoi in the form of a tercet. The usual ending word order for a sestina is as follows:
First stanza, 1- 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
Second stanza, 6 - 1 - 5 - 2 - 4 - 3
Third stanza, 3 - 6 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 5
Fourth stanza, 5 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 4
Fifth stanza, 4 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6 - 2
Sixth stanza, 2 - 4 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 1
Concluding tercet:
middle of first line - 2, end of first line - 5
middle of second line - 4, end of second line - 3
middle if third line - 6, end of third line - 1

At least, off the top of my head, I think that about covers it.
To do a double, though, you have to have a twin.

(Thanks again, Titia)  

Not A Poet
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since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
9 posted 2001-11-08 04:31 PM


Well Interloper, you probably shouldn't have asked that question. But since you have, take a look at this thread:

   /pip/Forum22/HTML/000088.html

It gives an example of the first one known as well as pointing out a couple of obvious mistakes and, through further discussion, how to correct them. Be sure to read the entire thread so as to get the word order right.

While you're at it, this thread,

/pip/Forum22/HTML/000090.html

is a wonderful example of one written by our own Skyfyre. You'll notice that hers even rhymes.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

Tracey
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since 2001-08-29
Posts 2808
where insanity meets breeding
10 posted 2001-11-08 08:01 PM


Teach, I think Duncan cheated!!!! Already, and it's not even exam time yet. Show off!!!! lol. I'll be back to class when I figure out what my question is (and I'm sitting next to Mr Know It All. I'm gonna cheat off him!!)

If she who dies with the most toys wins, then can I have some toy boys please?

Duncan
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since 2001-08-07
Posts 5455

11 posted 2001-11-08 09:02 PM


Tracey---Studying is not cheating.  Be nice or I won't let you sit next to me.
Janet Marie
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since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554

12 posted 2001-11-09 12:06 PM


Capricious moon cavorts in star-bright sky
And wisps of cloud like courtiers gather by
Their arms outstretched to catch her silvered light.
And yet, the tale that must be told this night
Does not unfurl in that celestial field:
Instead, a scene by moon's regard revealed
Is painted on the forest's shadowed form.
Within its still and mystic depths, a storm
Of magick broods, in this enchanted hour:
For they who weave the webs of ancient power
Shall reap this night the fruits of spite they hold
Each for the other; thus, the tale unfolds:

Before her feet, the deepest shade unfolds
In reverence at the brilliance of her form;
Her eyes the Daystar's  golden beams do hold
To pierce the gloom of e'en the darkest storm.
She fears not Dark, for daylight is her power;
And gleams as midnight sun in this bleak hour –
Unnatural scowl by Luna's cast revealed
Who watches, rapt, from her exquisite sky –
Her frown, a blemish on the sunlit field
Of perfect face.  A servant lingers by,
Who knows that Hell shall walk the gloom this night
Illumined by his Lady's mystic light.
=========================================


I just read Linda's(Skyfyre) Sestina...
and all I can do is shake my head in admiration and awe.
How I miss reading her exceptional work.
And now sated in rhyme divine ...
I will take my poet envy of her talent and go to bed...
No wonder my muse split...    

Now I need tylenol *L*
Hey maybe Loper can invent the first
senryu/haiku sestinas LOL


Nan
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since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA
13 posted 2001-11-09 08:46 AM


OKIE DOKIE, Interloper - I'm bringing Linda's (Skyfyre) double sestina into this thread for your perusal... and your assignment for the month is to write one... Remember to maintain an effective theme and adhere to the meter of your choice.
FAERIE TALE - by Skyfyre

quote:

Capricious moon cavorts in star-bright sky
And wisps of cloud like courtiers gather by
Their arms outstretched to catch her silvered light.
And yet, the tale that must be told this night
Does not unfurl in that celestial field:
Instead, a scene by moon's regard revealed
Is painted on the forest's shadowed form.
Within its still and mystic depths, a storm
Of magick broods, in this enchanted hour:
For they who weave the webs of ancient power
Shall reap this night the fruits of spite they hold
Each for the other; thus, the tale unfolds:

Before her feet, the deepest shade unfolds
In reverence at the brilliance of her form;
Her eyes the Daystar's  golden beams do hold
To pierce the gloom of e'en the darkest storm.
She fears not Dark, for daylight is her power;
And gleams as midnight sun in this bleak hour –
Unnatural scowl by Luna's cast revealed
Who watches, rapt, from her exquisite sky –
Her frown, a blemish on the sunlit field
Of perfect face.  A servant lingers by,
Who knows that Hell shall walk the gloom this night
Illumined by his Lady's mystic light.

From tactful shade, she summons him to light --
And whispers in his ear – a plan revealed
Whose curse shall write in History this night.
She stands, so cold and regal ‘neath the sky,
Defiant of the shadows gathered by;
A beacon in the dim and silent field.
She muses, for she knows that in this hour
The threads of silken future will unfold
And swathe or strangle her, by her own power.
Cascades of magick cloak her quiet form,
The breathless still before the raging storm
Of leering Fate the coming trial would hold.

In midnight throned waits he whose eyes doth hold
The velvet depths of this unyielding hour;
His is the voice that calls the snarling storm,
Its curtain o'er the heavens to unfold.
Soft shadows curl in love about his form
And in those sable veils he finds his power –
He looks through this dark glass to distant field
Where she whose airy voice commands the light
With hordes of glittered sycophants, waits by.
Though nothing in her careful stance revealed
But icy grace to mock enfolding sky,
He knows she writhes in torment on this night.

With eagerness, he grins, the Prince of Night;
To meet the Queen of Dawn on that dim field
With moon and stars as witness from their sky!
There, sanctified by their effusive light
Would see with grim finality revealed
Eternally, one Victor, measured by
The other's sure demise.  His darkling power
Danced anxious in his eyes – he vowed to hold
No mercy in his heart for that fair form
Whose noble pride would crumble in this hour
As surely as he would his wrath unfold
Upon her frailty in the coming storm.

On conquest bent, he rides the breath of storm,
Obedient to his unflinching power;
And in his wake, his hordes, en masse, unfold
To do his bidding.  Ardent smile that holds
No mirth does hang upon his face this hour;
A mocking slice of white on this dark form
That shames the midnight's gloom.  The trees race by
Beneath the flight of sovereign Liege of Night,
In violent winds, their bowing trunks revealed
By silent stars that frame the fateful field
Where waits the one whose soul is molten Light.
She watches his approach through raging sky.

Unblinking eyes, so like the dawning sky,
Meet his in fearless calm, despite the storm.
So strange, her glow in this benighted hour –
And yet, the forest crackles with her power
Oppressive gloom no mastery does hold
O'er her bright heart.  He feels a thought unfold
That jointly warms and chills him – waiting sky
Is suddenly too close – it lingers by,
Encroaching on his will like hateful Light.
With tightened jaw, he calls the soothing night
To wash his mind, but something in the field
Yet grieves him, though its name is not revealed.

His silent frame in shadowed grace revealed
To her uneasy gaze; a patch of sky
That stains with empty black the starry field.
Unholy minions follow closely by,
To heed the call of he who rules the Night;
She breathes a prayer for her brigade of Light
In fervent hope that Fortune will unfold
Its gentle wings to guard her stately form.
Might this unhappy conflict prove to hold
A silver lining, draped on heaves of storm?
She whispered pleas to every ancient Power
That Victory might smile on her this hour.

The wait is past – in this defining hour
Shall Time's amorphous tapestry unfold
To tell whose aspect wields the greater power.
Their magicks swarm; two Wills are given form
As clouds and lightning, self-contesting storm.
And as it rages, neither seems to hold
A marked advantage – by explosive light
The fortitude of dauntless dark revealed –
And searing Day unmoved by shrouding Night.
Thus brought to earth, the fury of the sky
Roils on, displaced, its wrath empowered by
Embittered foes that flank embattled field.

Opposing passions dancing on the field,
The shadows melting in unnatural light
Which then, in turn is promptly swallowed by
The eager maw of Darkness.  There revealed,
In violent gale that mocks the peaceful sky,
Ironic truth – the harvest of this night
Will not be triumph – neither foe shall hold
The throne unchallenged.  This unhappy hour
Whose passing flailed the Earth with savage storm
Saw nothing save a fruitless duel unfold.
The tempest fades; the two opponents form
Long shadows in the ebb of burning power.

Irresolute, they stand – conflicting power
Still lingers at the ready in their hold.
But – strange illusion!  One majestic form
Steps forth to meet her foe!  Portentous hour,
What fate shall this unlikely act unfold?
And then, like shadow of approaching storm,
He moves alike, a breath of walking night,
Toward the center of the smoldered field.
Their legions massed, as silent as the sky,
Archaic nemeses of Dark and Light,
Look on in disbelief – moonlight revealed
Prophetic scene that Time is measured by.

Soft footfalls – earth and heaven standing by
To watch the breathless epic of this night;
Two regal strides, and history revealed
Where ancient foes sojourn in nighted field
Suffused with Luna's glow and starry light.
A frozen moment  ‘neath expectant sky
So tranquil in the aftermath of storm –
Two gazes meet – and in them both a power –
Unblinking, proud.  There, eyes alight unfold
A shocking twist: how dost this vision hold
Such strong allure for them this fateful hour?
A revelation slowly taking form ...

Unfold a dream of such pervasive power
Another storm is birthing in this hour;
Strange demon taking form this wondrous night.
In silvered light, a paradox revealed,
Whose depth shall not be matched by endless sky:
When love takes hold in wake of hatred's field.


To save you some work, here is the end-word scheme

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12
12 - 1 - 9 - 11 - 4 - 7 - 2 - 8 - 3 - 10 - 6 - 5
5 - 12 - 6 - 4 - 7 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 10 - 9 - 11 - 8
8 - 5 - 7 - 6 - 4 - 12 - 10 - 2 - 3 - 11 - 1 - 9
9 - 8 - 6 - 10 - 1 - 2 - 7 - 4 - 3 - 12 - 5 - 11
11 - 9 - 6 - 10 - 4 - 2 - 7 - 1 - 12 - 8 - 5 - 3
3 - 11 - 7 - 8 - 12 - 1 - 2 - 10 - 5 - 6 - 9 - 4
4 - 3 - 9 - 6 - 5 - 10 - 1 - 7 - 12 - 11 - 8 - 2
2 - 4 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 8 - 7 - 10 - 9 - 11 - 12 - 6
6 - 2 - 9 - 3 - 8 - 1 - 7 - 5 - 10 - 4 - 11 - 12
12 - 6 - 8 - 4 - 3 - 5 - 9 - 10 - 2 - 1 - 11 - 7
7 - 12 - 6 - 3 - 9 - 11 - 5 - 8 - 4 - 2 - 10 - 1
12 - 10
8 - 9
7 - 4
3 - 6
2 - 1
11 - 5

Good luck, Interloper...

Next question??

[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 11-09-2001).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
14 posted 2001-11-09 10:13 AM


Sorry Teacher but your end word scheme uses word 12 twice and never uses word 10. I pointed out an acceptable scheme in a link above but to make it easier, here it is again.

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12
12 - 7 - 11 - 8 - 10 - 9 - 6 - 1 - 5 - 2 - 4 - 3
3 - 6 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 5 - 9 - 12 - 10 - 7 - 8 - 11
11 - 9 - 8 - 12 - 7 - 10 - 5 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 4
4 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6 - 2 - 10 - 11 - 7 - 9 - 12 - 8
8 - 10 - 12 - 11 - 9 - 1 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 7
7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
6 - 1 - 5 - 2 - 4 - 3 - 12 - 7 - 11 - 8 - 10 - 9
9 - 12 - 10 - 7 - 8 - 11 - 3 - 6 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 5
5 - 3 - 2 - 6 - 1 - 4 - 11 - 9 - 8 - 12 - 7 - 10
10 - 11 - 7 - 9 - 12 - 8 - 4 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6 - 2
2 - 4 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 7 - 8 - 10 - 12 - 11 - 9 - 1

2 - 5
8 - 11
4 - 3
10 - 9
6 - 1
12 - 7

You will notice there are no repeats or omitted words.

Good luck Interloper.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-20
Posts 21191
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA
15 posted 2001-11-09 10:45 AM


Thankya, Pete - Nice to see you...

Isn't this fun??..  

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
16 posted 2001-11-09 03:28 PM


I think it's great fun as long as it's some other poor sucker who has to write one. Sure looks like you're getting lots of activity in here lately though. Wish I could find a little more time for class but still looks like I have too much work for another couple of months.

Pete

Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 2001-05-07
Posts 5182
Netherlands
17 posted 2001-11-09 06:48 PM


Ha Ha I knew, I knew, that's why I didn't ask anything  

Yea, that's a good site isn't it Duncan, never have to ask a question in class and get the ropes on like poor Interloper  

But now I have to study what question I will ask   That's difficult for I'm just a dumm Dutchie  

I'll be back soon

Titia

A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Feel free to use the pictures on my website. http://communities.msn.com/Titiasplace/

walker
Member Elite
since 2001-02-11
Posts 2240
Florida
18 posted 2001-11-14 07:26 AM


Is this is Math class?
Or are these the lotto numbers?
Anyhow thanks for telling me what a double retina is. I mean a double sestina. And about Duncan, you can sit next to me and we'll both fail

Apachecat906
Member
since 2001-09-04
Posts 217
Michigan, USA
19 posted 2001-11-14 10:30 AM


Is it too late for a full refund?  Sheeseh, I thought I signed up for poetry 101, not Math 6854   I'll be back next semester.

Go ahead, push your luck; find out how much love the world can hold

Sven
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Member Laureate
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937
East Lansing, MI USA
20 posted 2001-11-14 07:59 PM


oh now this I've got to see. . . and I knew that Skyfyre's Double Sestina would be used as an example. . . I have a printed copy of it. . . still amazes me. . .

well Great Voice of the Southland, is your foot still in your mouth??  LOL  

--------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

[This message has been edited by Sven (edited 11-14-2001).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
21 posted 2001-11-15 10:22 AM


Actually Sven, Skyfyre wrote two of those monsters within about a weeks time. For some reason I couldn't find the other. They were both excellent and fascinating.

Pete

Sven
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Member Laureate
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937
East Lansing, MI USA
22 posted 2001-11-19 10:11 PM


yes they were. . . I still remember reading them and thinking, "I hope that I can write like that some day. . . "

but, I'm not even there yet. . . and, oh teacher, I may have a question of my own later. . .  

---------------------------------------------------------

To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.

Tracey
Member Elite
since 2001-08-29
Posts 2808
where insanity meets breeding
23 posted 2001-11-25 03:00 AM


Okay, I’ve got my question, courtesy of Prof Gloom in Open 16. I actually had it a couple weeks ago, but the cat ate the piece of paper it was on, and i had to try to remember, and then I was off for a while...do I need a note from my parents teach???

Anyway, my question is: what the heck is iambic pentameter? I hope it’s not too hard, cause my tutor just told me he didn’t take poetry in school, just advanced lit. Who knew, I’da thought twice about hiring him I tell you!!

And Duncan, stop hiding your papers, can’t ya see I’m trying to look over your shoulder????


If she who dies with the most toys wins, then can I have some toy boys please?

[This message has been edited by Tracey (edited 11-25-2001).]

Duncan
Member Ascendant
since 2001-08-07
Posts 5455

24 posted 2001-11-25 01:18 PM


Ok, I want to write a limerick.  I will use Titia's recommended site for info but was also wondering if anyone could give me some tips.

Tracey, the reason you can't see my paper is not because I'm hiding it, it's because I've fallen asleep on it.

Nan, please tell Tracey to stop talking so much so I can concentrate on my homework.  

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