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DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396


0 posted 1999-10-14 12:45 PM


This poem I write for you dear wife,
for your love I had once known.
You've made such misery of my life,
and for it will not atone.

I've shown you concern and sympathy,
for it you've spit in my face.
You lack the remotest empathy,
loving you was my disgrace.

Your mind has a schizophrenic bent,
that feeds my anxiety.
Your insanity is heaven sent,
forgive this impiety.

Daily it seems you go through a fit,
spelling out how you hate me.
I hold you down through the worst of it,
even as you berate me.

You have punched me so hard it did cramp,
slapped me and split wide my lip.
Hard upon my rage I have to clamp,
while you give me a guilt trip.

The most I have done is hold you down,
so that you would hurt no one.
Within your madness I start to drown,
as sanity comes undone.

Each word of this verse I swear is true,
as is each thing I regret.
At wit's end I know not what to do,
nor how to deal with your threat.


©1999 DreamEvil

------------------
Nothing is worse than sorrow,
except perhaps disdain.
I'll be myself tomorrow,
tonight I'll feel the pain.

DreamEvil©



© Copyright 1999 DreamEvil - All Rights Reserved
Lucie
Senior Member
since 1999-06-20
Posts 1077
Houston
1 posted 1999-10-14 12:49 PM


I wish for the ability to reach through this screen to gently touch your face my friend.. as always I am here for you.
Iloveit
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 1121
NM
2 posted 1999-10-14 12:50 PM


wow what a life you write of dream, thanks for sharing with us, I feel your pain, I understand the hate you write of and so, will send hugs, great writing...sad subject
INclan
Senior Member
since 1999-07-20
Posts 1024
Indiana, USA
3 posted 1999-10-14 01:38 PM


Well done DreamEvil,

your words hold true for more than one person. The next time you evesdrop on our dinner table...let me know and I will gladly set you a place.

INclan

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 1999-07-05
Posts 10750
Glen Hope, PA USA
4 posted 1999-10-14 01:39 PM


I am touched by this Scott, as you know full well, I can very much relate to this one. My heart goes out to you as well as my thoughts and prayers.
Hugs my friend
Ruth

Marilyn
Member Elite
since 1999-09-26
Posts 2621
Ontario, Canada
5 posted 1999-10-14 01:46 PM


I can very much relate to this as well Dream. I wish you well and nothing but the best. I don't know about your situation but I know this. You have to deal with it the best that you can and if it doesn't change you have to get out. I did and I am alive and have dreams again. If I had stayed I would have died in more ways then just one. I hope my words reach you and I hope they are taken in the way they were meant. In kindness and empathy.
Mike
Member Elite
since 1999-06-19
Posts 2462

6 posted 1999-10-14 01:58 PM


I personally find the poem repugnant. If the poem is a reflection of how you view your life situation and you take this means to express your views, my feelings are with your wife. I find the poem in poor taste.
Of course, just my personal feeling. Realizing I will be villified for expressing my view, I will bid adieu... but this one was just too much for me to stomach.

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
7 posted 1999-10-14 02:19 PM


It is very easy to trash someone who is not around to present their view. There are always more than one side and, from your previous poems on this subject, it appears that there are more facts which you have selected not to make the readers privy to. The innocent, battered husband, soliciting sympathy from fellow (and mostly) female poets, abused through no fault of his own? I would find that scenario unlikely.

You get no villification from me, Mike, only agreement. Taste is lacking here.

Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301
That place with padded walls and funny people in white.........
8 posted 1999-10-14 02:23 PM


How sad....I hope things work out for the best, whatever that may be. But very well-written.

You have punched me so hard it did cramp,
slapped me and split wide my lip.
Hard upon my rage I have to clamp,
while you give me a guilt trip.

You know I can relate with this stanza, even thought the situations are completely different. **hugs**

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-

DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396

9 posted 1999-10-14 02:27 PM


Solely for those who think I have no basis for this, my wife IS schizophrenic and violent. Her refusal to have the issue addressed is resulting in trauma to the children and both myself and her. It is necessary to hold her down so she does not hurt herself or others when she has a fit. In my naivete, I sought help and advice from this forum and once again, I am met with ridicule and scorn.

Balladeer, please direct me to any posts I have made concerning my wife's schizophrenia and the subsequent damage to our children as I would love to read them. It is not trashing her, it is fact and exactly what I relate.

Sympathy? Indeed not, I look for answers and a better way of coping with her problem until her appointment and meds take effect. I do find it curious that only females seem to have the compassion and insight to give answers and compassion while the males responding greet me with scorn and derision for staying by her side for all these years.

[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-14-1999).]

Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136
Mobile, AL
10 posted 1999-10-14 03:20 PM


Someone posts excellent writing here,and seems to be reaching out. What I have seen here is what he gets for it? We may not know all of the facts, so all we can do is contemplate what facts we do have. Whether they are facts or not is not up to us to judge. I think if anyone here felt that those facts weren't valid or true, they should have kept their words to themselves and been decent enough to stick to commenting on the poem as a poem, and not as a personal analysis on Dream's life. Good day for now, for I am very dissappointed in this place right now.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
11 posted 1999-10-14 03:55 PM


I would apologize for any offence given. My comments are based on the facts your previous poems have stated. A month or two ago your wife was a wonderful woman who accepted with grace and love the fact you were leaving her for another woman. That has apparently fallen through, if the change in your signature means anything, and now the same caring, understanding woman is viciously evil.

I should not, however, have responded but instead, as I have done in the past, simply said nothing. Something about Mike having the courage of his convictions to speak out in spite of opposing opinions prompted me to react.

I shall return to my shell of non-comment with respect to your personal endeavors. I hope all works out well.

Ohme
Senior Member
since 1999-07-17
Posts 816
Texas
12 posted 1999-10-14 04:10 PM


I do not have to deal with a problem like the problem DreamEvil seems to deal with.
Neither do I know if he slants his point of view in his direction. But I do know his feelings will be uncovered and exposed within his writing. But who are we to say what those feelings should or should not be.
At some time in our life haven't we all written a poem that dealt with anothers mistake? If not, now is your chance if you believe him wrong. I do not hold him responcible for his feelings. The only responcibility he has is what he does about those feelings. And if that action is included in a poem I'll read it. But I will not judge him personally until I have walked in his shoes. God bless you Dream. Perhaps some problems need to be discussed with math Professors who believe in numbers that don't even exist instead of we Poets who are always very opinionated but not always kind.

Craig
Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 444

13 posted 1999-10-14 04:19 PM



DreamEvil

If what you say is true then I’m sorry for both you and your wife, she obviously means something to you because your still with her. You say you are asking for advice, my advice is go and ask somewhere where there are professional people who can help you and your wife. Asking advice on mental health from a bunch of poets is, I think you’ll agree, not going to solve anything. My second piece of advice is delete this poem, even as a plea for help it is at best ill-conceived and at worst in bad taste if your wife is indeed ill, the last thing she deserves is her illness spread out for all the world to see.

I hope it all works out for you and your wife.


[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 10-14-1999).]

Martie
Moderator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-09-21
Posts 28049
California
14 posted 1999-10-14 04:31 PM


There are many things that are sad in this life. Poets are lucky to have words to express feelings that are for others unexpressable.
Iloveit
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 1121
NM
15 posted 1999-10-14 06:09 PM


i disagree with Craig, this forum is for posting poems, and it takes 2 to make any relationship how ever unhealthy. It is not for us to decide right or wrong, it is simply a version of his life. I understood, because I have been held down against my will, and even though I am not psychotic, I understand her anger, and I see a little of both my husband and the pyschotic behavior that he exhibits in this poem, and I see the pain, I know he hurts even though I know he is wrong in the way he treats me, and I know I hurt....this poem is about pain....the way I see it, and *sigh* we all live with a degree of it, some more than others
Dark Angel
Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095

16 posted 1999-10-14 07:33 PM


I agree with Temptress, whether poems are fact or not, it is not up to us to Judge.
Soul-brother, I feel for you at this difficult time,if you feel you need to express your hurt in a poem well you do that, not matter what the subject. God Bless you Scott. ((( HUGS))) Soul-Brother.

------------------
What comes from the heart goes to the heart.
Samuel Coleridge



doreen peri
Member Elite
since 1999-05-25
Posts 3812
Virginia
17 posted 1999-10-14 08:07 PM


Ok. Well, I normally don't take the time to respond to certain types of postings.... but since there's been a little ado here, I have something to say.

First of all, I realize this is not the Critical Analysis Forum, but it IS a poeetry forum, so instead of talking about personal problems, let's talk poetry.

To D-Evil-

The poem's structure:
You has posted sentences which have rhyming words at the end. The meter changes from stanza to stanza and often from line to line. Did you work on editing this poem at all or did you just write what you were thinking? You have often indicated that writing quality poetry was of importance to you. I would encourage you to read this poem aloud, then work on the meter and flow of it. It is far inferior to some of your other poems which I have read.


The Theme:
The theme of the poem is a personal one, and it seems you have invited everyone in the forum to be informed of your marital problems. Since this is a poetry forum and not a marriage counseling forum and since I do not have any credentials as a marriage counselor, I won't address your personal marital problems. AND, since this is a poetry forum and not a mental hospital (well, except for some humorous exchanges between famous painters), I can't address your wife's illness or advise you on how to deal with it or how to cope. Being a public forum, even if we considered each other the dearest of friends, I would not want to discuss your problems in the forum, but instead would choose a private method of discussion. And part of the reason I think you have received some adamantly negative responses here, is because you are airing your dirty laundry in public and you are essentially asking for a reaction. Let's assume you really want sympathy and empathy from your peers and friends. That's fine, but in a poetry forum?

Let's take the theme of the poem from the standpoint that it is true. After all, why should the reader not believe you? Even in the last stanza, you have stated that this is not a fictional piece. You begin the poem by expressing hatred toward your wife and informing the reader that there have been physical confrontations and that your wife is mentally ill. That's a heavy place to start a theme. Then, you work your way toward the finale which informs the reader that this is not a fictional piece and pleads for sympathy.

I think you should consider revising your theme development. Since you are here to write poetry, and not for the sole purpose of evoking feelings of sympathy from your audience, why don't you consider eliminating the plea entirely? Then, if you begin the poem with the basis for your theme, such as the fact that you are married and maybe when you got married how lovely your wife looked and how you were endeared to her.... then develop the theme by creating imagery, using metaphor, simile or personification, or other tools of your craft... you could build up to the incident with your lib being bit and when your wife spits on you.

Anyway, for what it's worth, if you develop the theme better and work on your meter, you may end up with a much more effective poem for evoking emotion from me. (I am just one reader and this is my humble opinion).

Now, since you've aired your dirty laundry, I need to add that if I were your wife and had a mental illness problem, I would be very angry at you for posting it on the worldwide web. And if I found out about it, I might just punch you in the stomach.

That's all... thanks for the opportunity to post my response to your poem.

-dp

DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396

18 posted 1999-10-15 12:59 PM


Doreen,
Regarding meter, I am tone deaf and such makes it hard to distinguish stresses. Nan has told me that it is not a problem.

Again, my wife knows of the piece and has read it. She understands the need for release as do I. Which is why I do not comment on the free verse she writes about me. I hide nothing from her.

------------------
Nothing is worse than sorrow,
except perhaps disdain.
I'll be myself tomorrow,
tonight I'll feel the pain.

DreamEvil©



Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704

19 posted 1999-10-15 01:03 AM


Powerful words my friend. Hugs.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296
Purgatorial Incarceration
20 posted 1999-10-15 01:27 AM


I am here as always brother.
Watcher666
Senior Member
since 1999-10-13
Posts 1606

21 posted 1999-10-15 03:13 PM


Excellent verse.As I would except nothing less from from having read your previous works.You can feel your emotions and struggles.I see from the previous post that although most agree the verse is well done,most don't like your subject matter.I feel each poem should be judged on it's own merits.If it's well written the it's a good piem.No all subject mater appeals to everyone.If yoyur unable to see the eritten for what it is then don't reply.Each of us is entitled to our own opinions.But if you wish to attack someone for the subject it's best to do so privately.

------------------
Illusion...what we see and what we do...it's all up to you.

Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 1999-07-29
Posts 5622
Ala bam a
23 posted 1999-10-15 04:00 PM


DE...yanno? Life is tough. Marriage is really tough...and, it's part of life for most of us. I have many things I could say about my marriage....mostly too personal to me and her, and I have the utmost respect for her, "for better or for worse" didn't work for us, but still does in personal confidence and respect. I would guess you're going thru a difficult time right now, and I hope all works out well, but, some things ya may wanna consider before bringing it out for the whole world?...Just my opinion...and again, I hope your wife gets better, after all, I would think she doesn't have control of her problem, and maybe it's best if that problem were solved between the two of ya?..Best of luck.....like I said, I would assume it's not any easy road, but maybe the "benefit of the doubt and privacy" would be beneficial....ya think?
LngJhnAg
Member Elite
since 1999-07-23
Posts 3508
Boot+Kitty=Poetry in motion
24 posted 1999-10-15 04:30 PM


Dreamie

They sure told you, didn't they?! Personally, I see nothing about the theme of your poem that is significantly different from the themes of a lot of other poems that get posted in here. Not a day goes by that somebody doesn't write about their imperfect relationship. As for the love/hate flavor of your marriage... shoot, Dreamie, you aren't as unique as others would have you portrayed. I doubt there is anybody on this board who hasn't at one time or another felt less loving for their spouse, and even had brief flashes of hate. That's what makes this world turn, the loving and the fighting. But through it all, the love is there. That's what I got out of your poem. Love, tinted with periods of desperation. My brother, a widower after 30 years of marriage, went through hell many times, once nearly losing his life from a vicious beating. But he hung in there, and we both cried like babies at her funeral. I hope you get the help you need.

Deverone
Member
since 1999-10-13
Posts 136
San Antonio, Tx, USA
25 posted 1999-10-15 11:02 PM


DreamEvil,

Your words are strong and courageous to be put up into this forum. You have poured your heart out and you might get kind gentle words and you might also get the other kind.

However I prefer to give you some of the first kind. As I said before it took a little courage to do this and I feel for you as well as your wife. I am probably a little more empathetic toward you though since I am getten out of a marraige that went kinda south.

Well good luck with everything and I hope you both can endure for the sake of the "LOVE" you have.

------------------
Deverone

"We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out".

----Ray Bradbury---


Genea
Member
since 1999-06-15
Posts 321
USA
26 posted 1999-10-15 11:12 PM


I know nothing of ur personal life, but when i read this...i thought it was written 'tongue-in-cheek' and that u were being sarcastic. Did not realize u meant it. After reading all the comments, i would have to side with the votes for 'in poor taste.'
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301
That place with padded walls and funny people in white.........
27 posted 1999-10-16 12:26 PM


I am wondering why this poem was met with such hostility? If anyone thinks the poem is in bad taste, that is your opinion, but why all the anger? The only one who would have the right to be angry at his posting it would be his wife....and as he stated, she already knows of it. Scott simply wrote a poem about his problems, which we all do. Hell, I've written poems much like this, bitter hateful, and never had a response such as this.....I'm wondering why people picked now, and this poem, to vent on.

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-

Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 1999-06-16
Posts 3850
In the space between moments
28 posted 1999-10-16 12:42 PM


Dream--
I'm sorry that I have no answers to offer you...I only have my helping hand and my friendship. And those I will offer you always..I did not see your writing as an outlet to look for sympathy, but as you said, simply looking for answers. I hope you find those answers soon.

------------------
*Krista Knutson*

Wise is he who faces the frailty of man with the strength of an understanding heart. -- Daniel L. Miller



WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-22
Posts 9245
Illinois
29 posted 1999-10-16 12:47 PM


Well, I didn't want to get involved in all this controversy. But I guess I will.
I think if he is expressing his feelings in his marriage, then he has that right to do that. I agree with the fact that people do write things like this. What makes this one different? Because he mentioned that his wife has an illness? He has also brought his SAD out front here and no one jumped on him for airing that. I just don't understand why this has made everyone so hostile.

I wrote a poem a family that made it. My husband doesn't know of it. It is a part of my life that I had to deal with. He would be angry had he known I'd done that. For he hates me to talk about what happened. But that is a part of me, and something I had to deal with, and if I feel like talking about it then I will.
I'm sorry to see this kind of reaction. I guess I really just don't understand. That's all from me.

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648

30 posted 1999-10-16 03:28 PM


Well, I guess it's my turn to jump into the water here. My only comment is that my ex-husband's mother and I believe my ex as well are schizophrenic. She was diagnosed with this heartbreaking disorder. He didn't care to have himself diagnosed by a doctor so who knows for sure? She was in a mental hospital from the time she was in her early twenties until 'they' decided that mentally ill people should live out on their own. Which is all well and good, if the follow-up is there (which it isn't). Who knows what the answer is, if there even is one.

I also have written some things about my own experiences from my first marriage. Life, sometimes, is not pretty. I think sometimes the world is a little more sympathetic to women in abusive situations than they are to men in similar ones. I don't know why.

I applaud your openess with your wife and she with you. I would never have had the courage to do that. (I would have been sorry you can be sure of that!)

Poetry, I believe can be on any subject matter. Expressions of the soul don't always come out hearts and roses.

OK, I've said enough. You will be in my thoughts and prayers, as well as your wife and children.

------------------
Denise

Rosemary J. Gwaltney
Senior Member
since 1999-08-26
Posts 997
northern mountains, Idaho
31 posted 1999-10-17 01:04 AM


I just have to say that I think the people in here have been cruel here today. I don't think we are here to sermonize others, or judge them. And no one knows who you, or your wife are, anyway, Dream Evil. I would not voice one opinion or another in this case, for I thought we were here to read poetry, and, for myself, if it is something about deep personal pain, I think we should leave it alone if we don't like it. One more thing - a poem is not necessarily always word for word reality, and a person's past poems shouldn't enter into it. Sometimes people write poems about other people's lives, or a life of their own that existed thirty years before, or even a fictional one. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, I just couldn't let it go by without saying something.
tulip
Member
since 1999-07-04
Posts 320
unknown
32 posted 1999-10-18 01:33 AM


DreamEvil,
Speaking from experience, I'd like to say something. My mom and dad shared many happy years together. When I was 18, my mom had a nervous breakdown, we discoverd that she was schitzophrenic. My dad went through years of hell after that. My 4 brothers and I went to my dad and told him that we would understand if he left her, he didn't. His life has never been the same. My younger brothers have suffered alot being in the home with her. I don't know why he stays, other than he must have really loved her before!! I would understand if you did choose to have an affair, if you chose to stay. I don't know how you do it, she'll never be the woman you fell in love with. My heart goes out to you, you are in a predicament I wouldn't want to be in. But for the children, please get help. I was lucky to be old enough when it happened in our family to have a stable 18 years before it happened. My younger brothers weren't so lucky and it's really messed them up. Good luck...

Iloveit
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 1121
NM
33 posted 1999-10-18 10:59 AM


well, I agree with the sailor, this poem and the responses stayed in my mind and I wanted to post one last response.
I am not sure why this poem generated the negative responses it did either.
I do not like my husband, have been married for 25 years, and I could truly say sometimes I hate him. I post my poems, from my heart, and have yet to post one nice poem about him...and have never been attacked like this. NO, he wouldn't like reading what I post about him, but then neither is our relationship an honest one. I hide the real me from him, out of necessity of survival. No I don't ask anyone to understand my relationship, but neither do I ask judgement when I post my hurt or my hate.
I thank Ron, and this board and what ever powers it takes to make this place possible for the freedom to do so. I think all the poets here should have the same freedom....

*and she quietly steps down from the soapbox*

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