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Passions in Poetry

Jousting Forum?

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Midnitesun
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Gaia


0 posted 03-21-2008 02:07 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun


Do we need a Jousting Forum? Seems there is a proliferation of jousting in Open, perhaps, often misunderstood/misinterpreted?
Balladeer
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1 posted 03-21-2008 05:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Surely you joust!
Alison
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Member Rara Avis
since 01-27-2008
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2 posted 03-21-2008 09:08 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

laughs ...

jest a little?
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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3 posted 03-21-2008 10:10 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Methinks just us would be served.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
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4 posted 03-22-2008 12:01 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

What jousting are you talking about?

(Serenity, that should be "we would be", not "us would be")
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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5 posted 03-22-2008 12:04 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Watt?

effjayel
Senior Member
since 09-30-2007
Posts 1362
At the Crossroads of Infinity


6 posted 03-22-2008 05:22 AM       View Profile for effjayel   Email effjayel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for effjayel

It would not be much fun playing with myself in an empty forum * Now, if it were a Boasting forum, Ron could make enough cash to retire to Florida if he charged admission.I can think of half a dozen of the older(but not wiser) peeps on here that would never be away....

* That brings a whole new meaning to that old adage of Nero fiddling while Rome burnt..
Grinch
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Whoville


7 posted 03-22-2008 06:05 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Ess,

If Karen corrects the grammar the pun is lost and “justice” wouldn’t be served.

Midnitesun,

Personally I think something should be done and a Forum dedicated to poetic duels or jousts sounds like a good solution to avoid misunderstandings.

At the moment, especially after the recent “joust” I was involved in and the debacle of confusion that ensued, I’ve no idea whether jumping in on a joust will be accepted as light hearted banter or a personal attack - the language used is exactly the same it’s just the spirit with which they are delivered that separates them. In an on-line poetry forum where the only medium is words the intent behind the words can be easily misinterpreted. If the confusion between participants in a joust is a problem the confusion for the reader is an absolute minefield especially when that reader is a moderator, how does a moderator decide when a personal attack has taken place?

Is this a personal attack?

After one round with me you scrawny runt you’ll be in bed
With both your arms in plaster casts and a bandage round your head
I’ll pummel you until there isn’t any pummel left to pum
Then  you’ll be seen as you really are - a poor poetic bum.

If Deer aimed this at Toe it’s an easy call, if a newbie aimed it at me is that any different? Supposing the newbie actually meant it, would I know the difference? Would a moderator? If I complained would it be removed regardless of the intent  or spirit in which it was delivered?

I think a Forum for “jousts” or  “duels” is a  good idea, perhaps a “I participate in duels” flag would make sense too.

Either that or ban them completely as personal attacks regardless of intent.

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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8 posted 03-22-2008 06:15 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Grinch?

Thanks again for pointing out what should be obvious, and you always do so in a way that doesn't seem patronizing.

Poetic duals are grand tradition--you probably can point out better than I, the English Romantics who answered each other in this very same manner.

You've made me reconsider this idea. I'm accustomed to the older members and it's easier for me to follow, but if I were a newbie, I might mistake this for a hostile environment.

I do know I was very skittish about my first foray into Pip.

(How can y'not love this guy? I ask ya?)

Sheesh
Grinch
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Whoville


9 posted 03-22-2008 06:50 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Karen,

After the duel I had with xTr3m3sT  I’m a bit skittish.

When the moderators turned up I thought at first that he’d complained about my posts in that thread so I removed them but it turned out he hadn’t. Then I thought the Mods had reacted harshly towards xTr3m3sT believing that  he’d attacked me personally, which I thought was unreasonable because I didn’t feel personally attacked at all - I took it as a bit of fun no different to the banter between Deer and Toe. Only later did I learn that the posts by the Mods was for the initial “challenge” by xTr3m3sT to all the members of PIP and some comments on other posts.

It was very confusing and also a shame - I was quite enjoying that thread but it demonstrates how easy misunderstandings can occur and how difficult it makes the already difficult job of Moderating.


  

(Do ya still love me?)

[This message has been edited by Grinch (03-23-2008 05:09 PM).]

serenity blaze
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10 posted 03-22-2008 06:57 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Should I take that as a personal attack or a critique?

*laughing*



See what I mean? He's not the least bit patronizing.

Your poetry is beautiful.

(*wince* I know how that hurts you--I'm sorry!)

gleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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11 posted 03-22-2008 06:59 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

And to address your concerns about that thread?

Hey--I was looking forward to "breakfast"!

Grinch
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Whoville


12 posted 03-22-2008 07:08 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


By the time breakfast came Karen I was too busy  trying to work out how I’d offended him. I then went through all my posts for the previous day and deleted any that could even remotely be taken as offensive. I even removed one post in CA in case it upset the writer which, on reflection, may have been a bit of an overreaction.

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


13 posted 03-22-2008 07:13 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Have a hug, and some sympathy.

(forgive the smell, I've been writing again...)



But yeah...

I understand "skittish" all too well.


effjayel
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since 09-30-2007
Posts 1362
At the Crossroads of Infinity


14 posted 03-22-2008 08:20 AM       View Profile for effjayel   Email effjayel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for effjayel

I suppose the casual observer or newcomer reading some of the recent posts in which I have been involved in could mis interpret some of the posts as attacks. Personally, I did not take any offence from things said either by my opponent nor indeed by someone not simply posting a reply but taking the opportunity to " jump on the bandwagon" & having a dig at me. If I had been upset / annoyed etc, I would simply have hit the e mail icon & made my feelings known. Of all the recent "jousts" that I have partaken in, I have had numerous email contact with the participants as soon as I have posted something with them being the subject of said post. We have also maintained off line contact during the postings & no bad feeling has been experienced by any one that was involved. Indeed, we all initially made contact via the email link & followed this up by emailing each other at our own personal email addys. I feel that I have developed a deeper more meaningful relationship with some of my fellow Pipsters through these posts that may possibly not have been the case were it not for the playful bantering that we undertook.  Myself, I enjoy someone thinking about the topic & taking the time and effort to post a witty(?) poetic reply rather than the usual 2 line 'it was good, I enjoyed it' submission. Were there to be another forum for this kind of thing, I doubt whether I would visit it & partake as open in general takes up so much of my time as it is. Maybe we should preface these post with the kind of warnings to be found on packs of cigarettes, McDonalds apple pies & PG rated movies...
Nan
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since 05-20-99
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15 posted 03-22-2008 10:25 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Since I was the sole administrator who handled this yesterday, please allow me to clarify my reasons for moderating as I did.

I began my day by finding a report in the moderator forum about the post being discussed here.  When I read it, I found a thread that was full of potential violence, even threats to the lives of others.  These comments may have been made with the intent of light-hearted verbal jousting, but they were not written responsibly enough to come across that way to our readers.

Some comparison has been made to the bantering that Balladeer and Toerag write to each other.  These two express themselves responsibly.  Readers know that they are "playing" with their words.  Not only would you never find such extreme threats coming from their pens, but Balladeer went so far yesterday as to issue a very clear and responsible warning to this young member.

The proprietous line is drawn when: personal threats are made -  violence is sanctioned - violence or illicit activities become graphic - AND - when respect for each other is breached.

Which of these guidelines was surpassed here?  My assessment was that ALL of them were - ergo, my decision to moderate as I did.  I'm the first one to enjoy poetic "jousting," and I hope it continues on our pages for a long time to come.  It makes our days far more enjoyable. We simply have to write responsibly.  



Grinch
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Whoville


16 posted 03-22-2008 12:28 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Nan,

As I said in my email yesterday - I didn’t read it as you did, I took it as a challenge to duel and, not being aware of previous actions or events elsewhere I happily obliged. That’s not to say you didn’t act correctly and in the best interest of the forum, it’s simply evidence that such posts can lead to misunderstandings.

In this case most of them seem to be on my part, I saw the original post as a harmless challenge with language and threats no different from all the other posts kicking about on this site. My first inkling that something was amiss was when Balladeer arrived and  issued his warning in that thread. Unfortunately as Mike referenced one of my poems to frame his reply I presumed it was one of my posts at fault so I posted an apology and deleted them all.

It was only when you posted your reply naming xTr3m3sT that I realised that it was his posts that you had a problem with but even then I was still confused because I didn‘t take any of his posts as anything more than part of a duel and thought your post seemed a little harsh based on that thread alone.

Your subsequent email yesterday clarified that your decision wasn’t based solely on that one thread but was a culmination of events elsewhere. I’ve no reason to doubt that the action you and Balladeer took was correct based on the information you had regarding xTr3m3sT’s intent , information that I wasn’t aware of when I replied to the original post. My misunderstanding sort of proves how difficult it can be to recognise intent.

As I said it seems to me that it just makes the hard job the moderators do that much harder.

Dr.Moose1
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since 09-05-99
Posts 3505
Bewilderment , USA


17 posted 03-22-2008 01:04 PM       View Profile for Dr.Moose1   Email Dr.Moose1   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dr.Moose1

Hey now, wait joust a minute. I firmly believe the system in place works fine as it is and that as fellow poets we're pretty well capable of policing ourselves. Problems are bound to arise anytime there is human interaction, hence the need for moderators. Problem? notify moderator, moderator makes judgement call based on set criteria, end of problem. I think you're all doing a wonderful job here and that a seperate forum would probably shrivel for lack of participation. Just my two cents worth.
Doc
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


18 posted 03-22-2008 02:08 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


wait joust a minute


That is how you pun, Serenity (not at the expense of correct grammar).



a seperate forum would probably shrivel for lack of participation.


I completely agree with this.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (03-22-2008 03:10 PM).]

Grinch
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Whoville


19 posted 03-22-2008 02:47 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Could someone, perhaps a Moderator, clarify the guidelines for conducting duels or jousts in Open? Perhaps that's all that's needed. For instance:

“Personal attacks are absolutely forbidden!” according to the existing rules, are personal attacks within joust\duel threads ok?

Can any member instigate a joust or duel with any other member?

If not how do you instigate a duel?

Are there any  boundaries beyond which a post will be deemed unsuitable?

If so what are they?

Can any member join or jump into an existing duel or joust?

Who needs to complain before such a thread is deleted, is it the target  or simply another member that’s offended in some way?

I’d like to participate, as I said I was enjoying the duel I was involved in, but at the same time I don’t want to breach the existing guidelines or offend anyone in the process.

Grinch
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Posts 2710
Whoville


20 posted 03-22-2008 02:50 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Ess,

Sorry to be pedantic but I think the comma in your last post is in the wrong place.

If I'm wrong please ignore me.

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


21 posted 03-22-2008 03:08 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Just keep doing what you are doing: being careful.

If you break the rules by accident, I'm sure that both you and the moderators may deal with it with patience and understanding.  

If I understand rightly, these "joustings" are not ongoing, but just happen once in a while.  I never heard of any problem in the past.  

Grinch
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Posts 2710
Whoville


22 posted 03-22-2008 03:21 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Thanks for the advice Ess but I’d rather know the rules before I break them.

Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


23 posted 03-22-2008 04:27 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


I’d rather know the rules before I break them.


I am sure you know them.  They are right here.  

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


24 posted 03-22-2008 09:04 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Personal attacks are absolutely forbidden!


From your link it seems that duels shouldn't be allowed.
 
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