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Passions in Poetry

Profanity

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Peter J Marcroft
Member
since 02-02-2003
Posts 282
York, England


0 posted 07-18-2003 06:55 PM       View Profile for Peter J Marcroft   Email Peter J Marcroft   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Peter J Marcroft

I find it laughable that this site does not allow any form of profanity, not even censored forms which means that all a reader sees is a set of asterixs.

I have seen newspapers, tv shows, comic books, billboard posters, album sleeves and so on that have employed this technique quite legitimately.  What you are saying is that 300 million people can see a tv advert that uses censored profanity, but 400,000 visitors to a website cannot?

This rule follows no form of logical reason and especially as censored words are so often used in all forms of media, even children's literature and video games.

I motion that the rule on profanity is relaxed so that censored swearing can make it into poetry and other forms of popst.  Often a writer may use profanity to sum up a feeling at the end of a stanza and being asked to remove this removes the core of the piece, this makes a mockery of the idea of 'passions in poetry' and is something that should be altered, we are in the 21st century not the 1st!
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


1 posted 07-18-2003 07:16 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think if you want to help set the guidelines, and if Ron agrees, you can help pay for the site. I'm sure Ron would love to have a contribution from you. A new server costs $25,000.00 (US). Just email Ron and he'll give you the address to mail it to.
Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


2 posted 07-18-2003 07:29 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

Why not just post in the mature content forums?  It's no big deal... really.

Just because TV does that doesn't make it right.  You'll also see glorification of suicide on television but that doesn't make it acceptable here.  

Profanity is fine in the mature content forums.  Just go there, stop complaining.
Peter J Marcroft
Member
since 02-02-2003
Posts 282
York, England


3 posted 07-19-2003 03:50 AM       View Profile for Peter J Marcroft   Email Peter J Marcroft   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Peter J Marcroft

Ok, this forum is called, SUGGESTIONS what I am SUGGESTING is something that will help a few poets of our time.  If the mods don't agree then my bad, but this is to them and them alone, and is also something I have explained rather than simply demanded.  This is not a whine or any stupid thing like that and to be frank I am very disappointed that you people have took it that way.

I explained my reasons and while glorification of suicide and so on is not what I advocate, what I do advocate is a little creative freedom that still protects the users of this forum.

The sarcasm of you, poet devine, is totally needless and not only discredits you but discredits Ron as well.  I doubt he will find your juvenile intervention of any help to him when it comes to dealing with some issues regarding the site, if you cannot troll or flame then please do not post.
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


4 posted 07-19-2003 08:43 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I apologize.
Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores


5 posted 07-19-2003 11:05 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Hi Peter~
Let me say at the onset that I respect your right to have an opinion that differs greatly from mine.

So many times I've promised myself to stay out of these discussion forums ... but apparently I just haven't learned how to do that yet ... so here I go.

You stated-
quote:
This rule follows no form of logical reason and especially as censored words are so often used in all forms of media, even children's literature and video games.

I humbly will offer the following -

Wirty Dords
~*Marge Tindal*~
*#%! ... !#%*

Written upon the pages blue
clearly visible for ALL to see
Cursing words seen only fit
for walls of bathroom grafitti

Oh, mind me not ... I know them all
even know just what they mean
But can you imagine my chagrin
when seen by a child of just ten ?

Hosting WELCOME mat at the door
I would suppose that we all know what that is for !
Could we keep it just a little bit neat
by cleaning our pens ... as well as our feet ?

Sometimes there are young folks
whose parents trusted this friend
to not only take them through poetry's door
but also to read the words written within ...

So this poetess cries
for the family atmosphere that no longer exists
Use Smart Search and there will be seen
the Wirty Dords cluttering the family screen.

___________________________________________
And this -

Cussing And Fussing
~*Marge Tindal*~

Had a child of only nine
sitting here to read your penning
Couldn't imagine what she saw
that set her little mind to spinning

Until she told her mommy
that poets said naughty words
And her mommy read me the riot act
for 'hanging out with nerds'

No amount of protestation
on the part of this poet friend
could breach the gap of accusations
of the chasm I was pushed in

I've lost a little mentor
and the friendship of a friend so nice
my reputation has suffered
so I ask that you think twice

What may be 'acceptable' to some
really isn't 'acceptable' to all
I feel the loss of my little friend
who can no longer come to call

As responsible poets we should remember
we've a wealth of words at our beck and call
We don't need to use graffiti
taken from the bathroom wall


____________________________________________
I know it may sound shallow to those who feel the need to write explicit language into their poetry ... however, this is just another point of view from ONE of Passions' 400,000 visitors who doesn't share the philosophy of 'everybody does it, it must be acceptable.

Ron has provided 'PASSWORD' locked forums for the type of posts you suggest being allowed ... I don't go there, so nothing you post there would offend me.

Truth be known ... I wish the asterisk'd words weren't allowed in ANY of the Open Forums posts OR replies.

I'm just a 1st Century fuddy-duddy. That's the way I was raised ... and pleased with the choice and see no need to expand my reading priviledge to include language that I don't allow in my home and certainly don't want my granddaughter to someday come to this site and be exposed to.

I respect your right to use whatever language you wish to use ... as long as you place it in the appropriate forums that Ron has set aside for it ... just not in the Open Forums where young readers might accidentally stumble onto it.

I don't buy the literature or view the programs on television that allow the use of explicit profane language, so that portion of your premise falls on deafened ears.

While it is up to me to be responsible for my words, I stand firmly behind the need for censuring, when others don't publically censure themselves.

There's always two sides to the coin ...
my 'heads-up' just differs from yours.
Have a nice day.  
~*Marge*~


~*The pen of the poet never runs out of ink, as long as we breathe.*~
   noles1@totcon.com   


[This message has been edited by Marge Tindal (07-19-2003 11:08 AM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


6 posted 07-19-2003 11:30 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sarcasm, Peter? I'm sure that wasn't Sharon's intent. I would prefer to think it was "more a general attempt at stoking the fire," as you so adroitly labeled your own sarcasm in this thread. Or maybe she was just making suggestions, as you did in pointing out our rules are "laughable" and follow "no form of logical reason?" Strangely, when we allow words to be twisted and labeled by subsequent declarations of intent, those words cease to have any real meaning, don't they?

I usually appreciate criticism as an opportunity to justify and reinforce our rules, and I always welcome suggestions as a chance to perhaps see something I previously missed or have since forgotten, but neither criticism nor suggestions warrant your increasingly hostile attitude, Peter. The very last thing I want to do is send the wrong message to others. I do not retaliate against people who criticizes our policies or decisions, because if either the policies or decisions can't withstand public scrutiny, they need to be changed. But criticism of a policy or decision is neither a get-out-of-jail-free card nor a license to continually break our rules. And wanton disregard for those rules, especially when accompanied by hostility and paranoia, WILL lead to repercussions.

There will be no further edits and no more moves to another forum for your work, Peter. They will simply be yanked by the first Moderator who feels you've once again broken our Guidelines. Peter posts, Moderator reads, Moderator pulls for just about any reason they want. We're not going to waste any more time discussing borderline infractions or your possible intent, nor will we bother with warnings or email messages you'll probably just ignore as you seem to have ignored the last one I sent to you.

Be happy, Peter. You will now be getting the special treatment you wanted.
Peter J Marcroft
Member
since 02-02-2003
Posts 282
York, England


7 posted 07-19-2003 11:57 AM       View Profile for Peter J Marcroft   Email Peter J Marcroft   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Peter J Marcroft

Well Ron, you have just vindicated one of my issues, work being witchunted, enforcement of these rules or 'special treatment' as you call it is going to cause more problems for everyone.  I saw the posts about there being no bias, no witch hunting and so on, well you have just completely thrown your own argument out of the window.

I am sorry that you are unable to lay your hostilities aside, as I have tried to over the last few days.  I also apologise for not grovelling on my hands and knees when it came to this suggestion.  I am not your servant and you are not my king, so I can be as formal or informal as I choose when it comes to making the suggestion.  

I wish your site the best, I hope it goes from strength to strength, but I will not be coming back here.  I apologise in advance to anyone who has appreciated my work, I know who you are and I hope that you can understand my decision.  But when the head of this site starts saying that you are no longer worthy of having the rules properly enforced upon you then you have no position of being or power in this place.  

I have a great relationship on the net with most creative writers.  Be they people I know personally or strangers from other countries.  But this is the first time I have ever had a mod, admin or webmaster come at me and say the rules for you personally are being changed.  

I will see all of you who enjoyed my work somewhere else I am certain.  In case I don't see you, hello, good evening and good night!

*vanishes*

[This message has been edited by Peter J Marcroft (07-19-2003 12:07 PM).]

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


8 posted 07-19-2003 02:10 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Goodbye.
Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


9 posted 07-21-2003 07:13 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman


I've a question Peter:

Am I allowed to write profane and dirty words or whatever comes to my mind on the  white walls of your house?

Because that Sir, is what you claim is your right in this here Ron's house.

You're not yelling profane words in church either, do you.

As for the 'need' to use them in poetry?
There isn't any Sir.

And you don't barge into somebody's house and tell the owner his houserules stink.
I think Ron has been very patient with you. If this was my house, I would have kicked you out long time ago.

That's all I want to say.

Titia

Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

NewEnglandlazurlu
Member Rara Avis
since 01-04-2002
Posts 7709
A Mountain Paradise


10 posted 07-21-2003 08:20 PM       View Profile for NewEnglandlazurlu   Email NewEnglandlazurlu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for NewEnglandlazurlu

Peter, You are entitled to your opinion, but I have to say  I totally disagree with it.

The world is trashy enough and almost without values, morals and ethics. I am so glad Ron does not allow it on this site.

If you want to swear and read profanity, my suggestion would be to go to another site.
kadafi09
Member
since 06-17-2003
Posts 146
California, United States


11 posted 12-02-2003 09:18 PM       View Profile for kadafi09   Email kadafi09   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kadafi09

you're probably right pete, but we can't be all cursing left and right when children do visit this site. that's why we have the mature section.
Ringo
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-20-2003
Posts 3696
Saluting with misty eyes


12 posted 12-02-2003 11:37 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Even though he said he wouldn't be coming back, me being who I am, could not let this pass without my worthless couple of pennies...
I have been the "victim" of censorship on this site. I exercised my rights to use profanity where everyone could see it regardless of their age, or comfort level... It's not like they had rights not to be subjected to my foulness anyhow... and was singled out be the mods, and had my scribble moved against my will to a forum more in line with the language, and which was designed for such purposes... the fact that the mod-in-question was VERY nice about the move, and even allowed me to post a cleaned up version of it back in open makes NO diffence to me. I WANTED my nine year old daughter to see the kind of language her foul-mouthed, yet free-speech advocate father was using in public.
As a matter of fact, I enjoy that thought so much that I even asked if it would be permissible for her to become a member of this community JUST so she could see it.
The fact that she reads the site and posts when her mother allows her to visit is of no concern to me, as she has the right to learn such language wherever she reads it without me having any right to stop her...
How dare these mods think they are able to look out for the rights of those who wish not to read the language!!!!

Geez, Peter... see how absolutely senseless that sounds?
Even though I have had my own disagreement with the mods on one occasion, I still applaud the work they do, and wish them continued success.

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

Brad Majors
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 04-03-2001
Posts 2735
Georgia


13 posted 12-09-2003 11:08 AM       View Profile for Brad Majors   Email Brad Majors   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad Majors

The thing is even though you can post poems with questionable words in the mature forums it will filter them out and replace them with symbols. I understand the family focus of the site but you are going to have a mature forum selection then there should be more freedom in them.
 
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