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Passions in Poetry

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Kevin
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since 11-02-1999
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Torrington, Ct, Usa


0 posted 09-23-2002 03:31 AM       View Profile for Kevin   Email Kevin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kevin

    I've had this idea in my head for a while now, and I thought I would bounce it off you guys and see what you thought.  I remember when the book was coming out and we were able to vote for poems we wanted to make the anthology.  By the same process I was thinking we could make a Spotlight Forum.  By some regular schedule, *weekly, monthly, etc* forums as a community, would vote for poems they wanted to represent them in the spotlight forum, for all of passions to see.  The forum would be reply only, and Senior Moderators could move the poems from the respective forums.  This would allow passions as a whole to see the cream of the crop in each forum, while honoring its respected members at the same time, and cross threading each individual forum for many people who stick to just one.  If this is economical and possible, with maybe a little sweat from ron, would you guys be game?

Let me know what you think, or if this makes no sense at all...man I hate this communication thing
Local Parasite
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since 11-05-2001
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Transylconia, Winnipeg


1 posted 09-23-2002 11:18 AM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

I would agree with this, but I'd rather the post not be moved from the original forum, rather it just be reposted... that way people who read it a first time can come back and give another response and, of course, their congratulations.  

It would probably best be done at the end of each month, in each forum, where a thread is posted openly asking for three nominations from the members of the forum.  At the end of the month, the nominations would be tallied and the poem would be posted in the spotlight forum by the member who won.

I think this is a great idea, Kevin.     Kind of like, a Poet's Choice Award.

Parasite

Learn to place poetry before people
Before you place your poetry before the people.
~Andrey Kneller

Local Parasite
Deputy Moderator 10 Tours
Member Elite
since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


2 posted 09-23-2002 11:20 AM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

The only problem I foresee is that people might get a wee bit competitive... but I don't know, I think we're all more mature than this.  

Parasite

Learn to place poetry before people
Before you place your poetry before the people.
~Andrey Kneller

Poet deVine
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3 posted 09-23-2002 11:43 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Can you handle it if your poetry isn't voted on to be in the Spotlight Forum?

Would it be based on popularity of the poet or the worthiness of the poem?
Kevin
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 11-02-1999
Posts 752
Torrington, Ct, Usa


4 posted 09-23-2002 01:45 PM       View Profile for Kevin   Email Kevin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kevin

In a perfect world, worthiness of the poem,

and yes I could handle it

I would hope that passions would be adult enough
Local Parasite
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since 11-05-2001
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Transylconia, Winnipeg


5 posted 09-23-2002 01:59 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

That's a good point, PDV... I was thinking it might be a bit of a downer for people who don't get any recognition in such a situation.  

But really, if we were selective enough and only displayed one monthly, then the majority would not have any exposure, where the actual poem to be put in the spotlight forum would be the vast minority.

So... to not be put in the forum wouldn't be a message to anyone that their poem is sub-par... it would just mean they simply weren't the one nominated.

Perhaps it would have a better chance of success if the nomination/voting was done anonymously?

Parasite

Learn to place poetry before people
Before you place your poetry before the people.
~Andrey Kneller

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 09-23-2002 02:50 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I am remembering how it was with the voting process--and honestly? I didn't like the tone of the forum then--it felt like constant "campaigning"--NOW...if there were a way to spotlight poets that did not involve a voting tally? dunnnoooo....
Nan
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since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


7 posted 09-23-2002 02:51 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

We already have a similar system on the main site (Top 100 Favorites).  It works pretty well, as the popularity factor is somewhat tempered by the fact that each person can vote for any specific poem just once.

I've always been in favor of incorporating a showcase of favorites here in the forums as well... Whatcha think Ron?.. Huh?.. Huh?..
Kevin
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since 11-02-1999
Posts 752
Torrington, Ct, Usa


8 posted 09-23-2002 03:25 PM       View Profile for Kevin   Email Kevin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kevin

Perhaps even a limit on how many times you can be nominated to spread exposure,  

This isn't meant to be a competitive thing, its meant to bring passions together, crossthreading forums.
Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


9 posted 09-23-2002 11:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The problems with Iraq and the U.N. isn't enough for you? Now you want this??

One of the reasons PIP has lasted this long is that it is NOT competetive. When you tell someone their poem is good enough to be spotlighted, you're telling a hundred others their poem is not. Is that the kind of atmosphere you want? and who is going to judge? Will the judges be competent enough to judge? I know that I'm not capable of judging someone like Christopher, for example. Will the members recognize the judges as being fair and unbiased? Right now people complain that Passions is filled with cliques and circles...you want to add this to it? We get away with the Top 100 on the main site because it is readers from the general populace, not members, who determine the rankings.

   Do you want to judge poems based on techinical ability? There are only a handful of poets here who qualify. Do you want to judge poems based on content, regardless of technical ability? What would be the criteria?

   I understand your idea, Kevin, and applaud the thought but there's no sense in talking about how things would be in a "perfect" world because we don't live in one. I know that here, locally, we held a Poetry in a Pub once a month for years that many local poets enjoyed attending and taking part. Someone came up with the clever idea of awarding gift certificates to the top three poems presented and the activity lasted less than six months.

   I see very few positives and many negatives to this suggestion....
Kevin
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 11-02-1999
Posts 752
Torrington, Ct, Usa


10 posted 09-24-2002 01:31 AM       View Profile for Kevin   Email Kevin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kevin

like a dad breaking up a sleepover

awww man lol
if you make me believe im wrong, i dont see how anyone else wont
Nan
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Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


11 posted 09-24-2002 08:35 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Deer, Deer, Deer... I don't believe for a minute that we couldn't do this in such a way that people aren't hurt.  It's a positive concept, not a negative one.  What's wrong with letting some of our folks know that their extraordinary efforts are being noticed?  It doesn't mean we don't appreciate the rest...

Um.. About that 100 best on the main site?  Only ONE of my poems has ever made it to that list - and it certainly WASN'T one of my better works..
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


12 posted 09-24-2002 01:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Nan, Nan, Nan....well, you go right ahead and draw it up in such a way everyone will be happy and there will be no hard feelings expressed. LOL! Be sure to do it in such a way no one will feel they aren't recognized because they are not in a "clique". After all, all of our members conduct themselves in a calm, cool, rational manner (forget the screams of "Why am I not getting more responses!?!?!" or "My poems disappear too fast!!!!! or "I'm leaving. Nobody appreciates me here!!!") Do it without making it look like a competition and we will have you on the next plane to the Middle East to solve their issues.

Kevin, the idea was good, really. It's just that, once it gets started, adjustments come into play. If the rule were "The best poems get recognized....period", that would be a good start. But what happens? As you stated in a later reply "perhaps there should be a limit to the number of times one can be nominated". Well, there's a change. What does that have to do with the best poetry? Now it's the best poetry from those who haven't been nominated too many times. There would be other adjustments and other changes and the final product would have little to do with "the best poetry....period".

   Believe me, I've been there. My poetry group here funded and gave out prizes to high-school students for their poetic abilities in an effort to encourage poetry in the schools and draw new writers into the field. What happened? The poems came in and were graded. The best were set aside into a special pile for further review. One poem was selected as the grand prize winner. A poem was selected as the second prize winner....but wait! The first and second place winners were from the same school! That wouldn't work. The prizes needed to be spread out among different schools to insure their future participation. So what happened? Did the second-best poem get second-best? No...and who wants to be the person to tell the author that he didn't win because the first-place winner was from his school? Was that fair to him? No. So it wasn't the top five poems winning the top five prizes. It was the manipulation of the top poems in a way to keep the most people happy.....except of course for the authors of the poems that should have received higher recognition.

   Competitions, judgings, gradings, and rule-manipulations are cans of worms. Again, I applaud the idea but I'll have to stick to the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory here.
Crazy Eddie
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since 09-14-2002
Posts 221


13 posted 09-24-2002 02:17 PM       View Profile for Crazy Eddie   Email Crazy Eddie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Crazy Eddie


I agree entirely with Balladeer, it’s a positive idea but the probable negative side-effects would far outweigh the possible gains.
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


14 posted 09-24-2002 03:11 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I too think Balladeer is right. This is not a perfect world and PIP is not a perfect group, close but not perfect. I can already visualize the hurt feelings and bent egos. Besides, who is really qualified to do the selections?

JMHO,
Pete
Local Parasite
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since 11-05-2001
Posts 2929
Transylconia, Winnipeg


15 posted 09-24-2002 05:51 PM       View Profile for Local Parasite   Email Local Parasite   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Local Parasite's Home Page   View IP for Local Parasite

You know what, Kev, maybe they're right after all...

I guess you and I are too popular to have any personal fear of this, so it's hard to consider the alternative, isn't it?  
Nan
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since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


16 posted 09-24-2002 07:27 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

How to do it FAIRLY?... That's what we keep Ron around for...
Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


17 posted 09-24-2002 09:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Darn! I forgot! That's right....especially since he doesn't have anything else to do

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (09-24-2002 09:32 PM).]

Poet deVine
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18 posted 09-24-2002 10:40 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I agree with 'deer. Unfortunately, there would be a lot of bugs (no pun intended) to work out. But if you could give us some suggestions...make it fair for all without the necessity of Ron working for days on a new software program.
Paddy
Member
since 09-23-2002
Posts 60
Straya


19 posted 09-27-2002 08:20 AM       View Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paddy

A very interesting thought, after all, poetry is purchased based on similar principles.

I am very new here and have noticed that poems receive a response regardless of the quality or the value in the message and I suspect that this has evolved from the determination of the founders to encourage the poets to write and that is a very good thing.

With every yin, there must be yang (although, in modern times there are more yin than yang in the literal sense) and that's not a very good analogy on the face except to say that whilst you might delve into that statement to its depths you would never understand, but for the known metaphor, that I refer to opposites.

The opposite is that poets would use political means for the betterment of their ego.

Perhaps an alternative to voting for poems would be voting for a panel of say three judges, who might, arbitrarily, provide a live link to the site where the original poem was posted.

Let's see, 1 million visits per month. Average visits to new posts (guessing) around 500:1. (Hey, why am I doing the math, you guys have the stats, but, this provides the formula at least) That's 2,000 poems a month, 500 a week. The "Panel" could be 'elected' monthly perhaps with the proviso that the term for re-election is say, 12 months. The 'Panel' would select say 12 poems per week and write a paragraph on each poem and why each was selected.

Sounds like fantasy? Dunno. I reckon it would take the least resources and provide all with the opportunity.

I shall be quiet now and go back to enjoying the enormous read I have ahead.

I guess one becomes content with one’s poetry when one opens the book ten years hence and does NOT exclaim, “Did I really write this?”

Paddy
Member
since 09-23-2002
Posts 60
Straya


20 posted 09-27-2002 08:49 AM       View Profile for Paddy   Email Paddy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paddy

Darn it all. I knew I should have read the responses b4 posting.

Balladeer, you elaborate on those issues I touched on in my earlier post, but, I still think it could work in place of the Top 100.

Perhaps the Top 100 could evolve to incorporate the "Ten of the Ten". Whilst I enjoyed reading the poems there, I, like Nan, found that many were better, both technically and emotively (if there is such a word, though not to be confused with emotionally).

There is no doubt that competition will prevail but, I don't see competition as a bad thing. Competition encourages us all to excel.

I see politics to be bad and, whilst my suggestions might not be perfect, at least they minimise the politics.

But, I am here for the poetry and don't care too much if one person doesn't enjoy reading mine for I write it for my own enjoyment. It is wonderful when another finds the same enjoyment within my writing.

To be completely honest, I find that the people here feel compelled to respond to a new poem they see posted. There are many I have read that I think "What a lovely poem" but I don't respond simply because it doesn't do the poet much good to hear those words. It does the poet wonders to learn "you didn't make this clear" or "This reminds me of ..." or "This is wonderful because ...". Quoting passages from a poem does nothing for me unless the quotation is followed by an explanation, else, it's purely platitude.

Hey, that's just my opinion and I am but a mere mortal so, I am off to check out some of the awesome work here. Don't shoot me.

I guess one becomes content with one’s poetry when one opens the book ten years hence and does NOT exclaim, “Did I really write this?”

Krishankins
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since 06-23-2002
Posts 1009
Texas


21 posted 09-27-2002 05:16 PM       View Profile for Krishankins   Email Krishankins   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Krishankins

Kevin,
I think this is a great idea. It would not only help with getting attention to some of the lesser known poets on here that deserve the attention, but it could also help people's faith in the ability of their writing. Some of these peole write extremely well, and think it's crap. I do, however, agree with the fact that it should be based on the worthiness of the poem, and not the popularity of the poet. If that were the case, we would only be reducing the site, and ourselves, to the cliques and cliches of everyday society. After all, this is a place where EVERYONE is suppose to feel welcome. How would it make someone feel if the first thing they noticed was a forum for the "popular" poets?
Anyway, I think this is something that the senior moderators, and administrators should further consider. Thanks for the wonderful idea!!!

Kris

Hey dog, did you see the size of that chicken!?

Poet deVine
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22 posted 09-27-2002 06:22 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

We have talked about a 'spotlight' forum for a few years now. And most of you have pointed out the many reasons why it hasn't been instituted yet.

Passions is a place where even the most novice writer can feel like they will be accepted. It could be intimidating to see a forum for only the 'best'. Who determines it? If I was a judge, I can tell you it would surprise you to read the poetry I think should be spotlighted.

How can we keep it from becoming a popularity contest? I think at first, we would have to accept that it would be. But with some honest effort on everyone's part, we could move away from that and focus on shining the light on poetry that receive acknowledgement.

But if we are to have a forum for the 'best' will we then strive to make it into that forum? Is everyone willing to work hard to perfect their skill? Would we see a resurgance of discussion in the English Forum? Would Nan's Poetry Workshop be overrun with members? Will CA become the 'testing' ground for poetry?

Are you willing to take the chance that your work would NEVER be chosen? How would you feel? What would you do?

I would like to see a lot more members ideas on this - is there some way to direct others to this discussion?
Crazy Eddie
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since 09-14-2002
Posts 221


23 posted 09-27-2002 07:28 PM       View Profile for Crazy Eddie   Email Crazy Eddie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Crazy Eddie

PDV

It seems there is some support for a forum that spotlights and gives recognition to popular poetry, the idea is, as I’ve already said, a worthy one, at least worthy of a second thought.

The main objections, including my own, seem to be that rewarding good poems also rewards popular poets which may promote unhealthy competition and possibly rigged voting. If you wanted to remove these possibilities it would seem to make sense to remove the poet from the poem by making all posts in any new forum anonymous until voting is concluded. That way people would be voting for the poem instead of the poet.

There would have to be extra safeguards of course, the poem would have to be unique to the new forum i.e. not a re-post and not cross-posted in another forum. To avoid mass rigged or clique voting you’d have to restrict the votes to one per person and actively encourage entrants to use their vote on their own poem. If you throw in a rule that only one poem per member can be entered and enforce disclosure of the author’s names only after the votes have been tallied it might be possible to keep the rule benders at bay or at least minimise their meddling. Who knows you might even have a half-workable system.
Poet deVine
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24 posted 09-27-2002 08:32 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

That idea has some merit, C.Eddie. Anonymous is GOOD sometimes as you well know.
 
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