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Passions in Poetry

Censorship in Piptalk

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Knight of Secrecy
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 122
San Juan, Puerto Rico


0 posted 12-05-2001 08:45 PM       View Profile for Knight of Secrecy   Email Knight of Secrecy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Knight of Secrecy

Dear Cherish and Moderators of Teen Poetry #5:

I regret to inform you that the poem, "Restless bullet" was not, about suicide, nor it was a glorification to suicide, and certainly it did not attack nor the church, god, or any of its prophets or servants therefore it is impossible to consider it profane. It did contain the word "****ing" but this is always edited, but it did not give the meaning to the poem. One word can never define a poem and this also can't make it profane.

The poem "Restless Bullet" is about one of the many troubles and journeys of love that me as a teen go through. This being the main theme of the forum "Teen Poetry #5". I would of agreed if you deleted my poem for the word "****ing" but not for the interpretation of the moderator that read it and deleted it(Cherish), but I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

"Teen Poetry #5
This forum is for posting new poetry about life as a teen"

I think that by deleting my poem, and stating that it was a "glorification to suicide" you set the line that is between "guidelines" and "Freedom of speech". I have no intent of taking over passions in poetry.com, or any intent of changing your guidelines and boundaries for freedom of speech, but your whole interpretation of my poem was completely wrong. By deleting my poem,  you can also delete my account as a member of piptalk.

For doing this I consider you one in the same with the people that banned artist and poets like Jim Morrison, Ozzy Osbourne, Judas Priest and Black Sabbath. Jim Morrison, may god rest his inmortal soul, banned for just saying he was going to show his penis. Ozzy Osbourne banned and sewed for explicit lyrics of suicide, and supposedly subliminal messages in his song, "Suicide Solution", which all the trials of this were dismissed, and I shall repeat Ozzy's words, and I quote: "Why should I stop singing and publishing a song which I know what I wrote it about, just because some kid saw it differently"
Judas Priest had a similar case, and trials, which were ultimately dismissed.

Also I would like to state that both the two replies that I got before it got deleted said that it was about a love gone bad, not about a "glorification to suicide" nor profane. And I quote:

Very interesting write. Well I thought maybe I would give you some advice.  Love will come and love will go they can leave you cold and bare.  But always know that we're all here and that we truly still care  
Feel better soon and go out and find someone who will treat you as you deserve to be treated.

Honey
Member
since 10-09-2001
Posts 60
Hot girl From Canada

You may try to explain your guidelines and boundaries of the forums, but you will never be able to deny my right of freedom of speech, but I repeat again,I guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Since I piptalks guidelines are against what I believe in and know is right I shall take my poetry elsewhere, and don't look foward to another poem from me.

Sincerely Carlos Machado, Knight of Secrecy.

>From: cherish010@hotmail.com
>To: haymejores@hotmail.com
>Subject: RE Your post in Teen Poetry #5
>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:50:54 -0500
>
>email=
>
>Dear Carlos,
>
>We regret to inform you that your poem "Restless Bullet" has been deleted, due to a violation of the posted guidelines of the forum. We remind you that we do not allow poems that glorify suicide, violence, or the harming of oneself or others.
>
>Unfortunately this poem can be considered to be "glorification" of suicide. It would be irresponsible of us to condone postings that show suicide as a valid choice to susceptible members who may be influenced by them.
>
>It also contained a profanity, again, this goes against our guidelines. For future postings I shall have to remind you to refrain from the additions of such profanity.
>
>We wish you the best, and hope to see you posting soon, within our guidelines, of course.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Cherish - Moderator/Passions in Poetry


-C.M.


"I feel the sting of an insignificant wasp, and yet,  I fear that I am alergic"

Allan Riverwood
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-04-2001
Posts 4212
Winnipeg


1 posted 12-05-2001 09:17 PM       View Profile for Allan Riverwood   Email Allan Riverwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allan Riverwood

I reccommend you edit all of that out, buddy... first of all, this is between you and the mods, nobody else in Passions.  Second of all, a personal email being posted in a thread on a public forum is a bit rude, wouldn't you say?
Just a "suggestion" of my own.
Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


2 posted 12-05-2001 09:25 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

An appeal for you poem said in a better way would help your case more IMHO

I agree with Alan about posting a personal email in a public forum.......

là où est mon amour?
donde está mi amour?
wo ist meine Liebe?

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 12-05-2001 09:29 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

There is nothing wrong with posting an "Open Letter" by the original author. And there sure isn't anything wrong with questioning our policies or interpretations.
Dopey Dope
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


4 posted 12-05-2001 10:02 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Good luck with where ever you decide to go Carlos.

Que te vas bien..
Knight of Secrecy
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 122
San Juan, Puerto Rico


5 posted 12-06-2001 03:42 PM       View Profile for Knight of Secrecy   Email Knight of Secrecy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Knight of Secrecy

Don't worry I will be just fine. Yes,posting a personal email is rude, but, Who cares?? I don't. Just count yourselves out of a great poet.

"I feel the sting of an insignificant wasp, and yet,  I fear that I am alergic"

cherish
Member Ascendant
since 03-25-2001
Posts 6045
swimming in fairy floss.......


6 posted 12-06-2001 10:40 PM       View Profile for cherish   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for cherish

its sad to see you go c,  you are an awesome poet. rules are rules. and we abide by them.

you said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if your poem CAN be interpreted as having a significant amount of "suicidal content", regardless of what you may have intended it to mean, it will be pulled. i do know that you understand that.

good luck with the writing carlos.

       

  

i luve mi con-tray! lyke a big an brown stetch olan wiv losa sun!


Knight of Secrecy
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 122
San Juan, Puerto Rico


7 posted 12-07-2001 04:41 PM       View Profile for Knight of Secrecy   Email Knight of Secrecy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Knight of Secrecy

Rules are rules, and yours BITE!
No one but you that has read the poem has said that is has suicidal content and less the way that you stated it, "a glorification of Suicide". Its sad that people here in piptalk won't get a chance to make their own minds about my poem or other poems that one person thought was not in their rules. At least of 5 people that have read it, 4 have thougt that it is not suicidal and that it is just a poem of a love gone bad.

"You think I give a **** about a grammy, half of you critics can't even stomach me"
-Eminem

-C.M.

"I feel the sting of an insignificant wasp, and yet,  I fear that I am alergic"

RosePetal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 08-26-2001
Posts 3414
South Florida


8 posted 12-07-2001 08:55 PM       View Profile for RosePetal   Email RosePetal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RosePetal

Knight,

I never had a chance to see your poem, so I can't give any input. I think you should reconsider staying at passions. If you would like, you can post at scroll.org, there is no censorship there, but also there's more bickering going on there instead of worthwhile poetry.

RP
Acies
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 06-07-2000
Posts 14805
Twilight Zone


9 posted 12-08-2001 02:49 PM       View Profile for Acies   Email Acies   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Acies

Carlos, a little tact would be nice  

As I've said, if you came about appealing this in a better way, maybe you'd get a better response to your appeal.

là où est mon amour?
donde está mi amour?
wo ist meine Liebe?

Knight of Secrecy
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 122
San Juan, Puerto Rico


10 posted 12-08-2001 08:58 PM       View Profile for Knight of Secrecy   Email Knight of Secrecy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Knight of Secrecy

I don't want you to change, i clearly stated that in my original message, the point is your rules suck! and im gone already, im only gonna reply to poems.

Also if you don't like me, BITE ME!.

-C.M.

"I feel the sting of an insignificant wasp, and yet,  I fear that I am alergic"

Allan Riverwood
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 01-04-2001
Posts 4212
Winnipeg


11 posted 12-08-2001 09:08 PM       View Profile for Allan Riverwood   Email Allan Riverwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Allan Riverwood

chomp, chomp...
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


12 posted 12-08-2001 10:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way, Carlos. You don't get to both have the cake and eat it, too.

Participation at ANY level means following the rules you agreed to follow when you joined. Especially the ones about Respect, which apparently are a problem for you.
Alyssa
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 05-30-2001
Posts 1279
IM ENGAGED!!!!!


13 posted 12-09-2001 06:59 PM       View Profile for Alyssa   Email Alyssa   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alyssa

whoa. some people can get perty defensive eh?
well i think if you dont like the rules of pip u can leave... my opinoin though...

[This post has been created by Alyssa, be joyous she has graced you with her pressence!!!]

K. Rebel
Junior Member
since 10-21-2001
Posts 42
San Juan, PR


14 posted 12-10-2001 06:07 PM       View Profile for K. Rebel   Email K. Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for K. Rebel

“Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder”

I went through this poem stanza by stanza with Carlos to enter profoundly in the meaning of this poem and all that I found is a love gone bad, the restless bullet as this love that will not let Carlos live in peace.
In addition I personally know Carlos, in fact dare I say there are no more than 10 people other than his direct family that know him better than I do. And I know that Carlos is not the person to glorify death, suicide, profanity or anything on that list of things. Carlos is a person that is always high on life and I know that he does want to go on with his life.
To my belief, next time this happens instead of deleting the poem because a moderator cannot interpret this poem you should ask the writer of this poem if he/she has a problem and if this poem does glorify that that is not acceptable in Passions in Poetry.
We live in a capitalist democracy, and all that you are showing is a dictatorship by an ignorant group of society that resist to understand the other groups of society and use there power to immaturely get rid of them because of non other than there misunderstanding.

¡Viva la resistencia! ¡Viva la revolución! Y ¡Viva el socialismo!

Sincerely Daniel Brown Sáenz, K.Rebel
Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


15 posted 12-10-2001 06:43 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

Carlos and Daniel, you both seem to forget that you are a guest in Ron's 'house'. He sets the rules and wether you like them or not, as long as you're in here, you have to follow them.

When you pay a visit to a friends house you have to play it by there rules, that's normal isn't it. You're not gonna change the furniture, you don't light a cigarette when they ask you not to, so what's your problem.

The mods are quite capable of handling the rules Ron's given them, so why don't you just respect them.
Even if you don't agree, it's not up to you (or us) to set the rules in another persons home.

Seems to me you have two options, either you post poems within these rules or take them elswhere.

I haven't read your poem, I don't need to for knowing that, even if I would have liked it, I still would have respected Ron's (or the mod's) decission to remove it.

And then another thing, this is not the place to fight your battle I think. You could have done that through mail, just between the two of you.

Well anyway, that's my opinion about the matter.

Titia

A rose is a rose is a rose...I guess...
Want to use the pics on my website? Just let me know. http://communities.msn.com/Titiasplace

WrathChild
New Member
since 12-10-2001
Posts 8


16 posted 12-10-2001 07:09 PM       View Profile for WrathChild   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for WrathChild

Well, I'm kinda new here, but I think that what Daniel suggested is true. And yes rules are rules, but, I guess thatby understanding the poem, interpreting it correctly a correct and collective descicion, rules are set in stone but their is always a hammer and a chissell to change them when it is nescesary. I read the poem, and I doubt that anyone with a stable mind could interpret it as a suicidal poem, when it is really a love poem, a theme that mostly everyone can relate to, but I guess that opportunity was lost when everyone is being a Blind Judge.I  believe that if a rule goes against what someone believes in, and you already tried in vane to change or alter this, then you should pack your bags and head west. I would kindly and sincerely ask ron to interpret and make a collective descision about the poem and rules about this poem, the rules shouldn't change, but the poems should go examined collectively both by every moderator and Ron, until that is done then any poem can be interpreted as ouside of your rules.

Sincerely,
-WrathChild
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


17 posted 12-10-2001 07:25 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

In this case, we all talked about the poem and it was the decision to pull it. If so many of us read it as suicidal, then perhaps the hidden theme of love was too well hidden? We never pull anyone's poem with a discussion about it. The consensus of opinion determines the poem's fate.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


18 posted 12-10-2001 07:45 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Actually, we've reversed decisions of this type on any number of occasions, particularly in borderline instances. It usually takes a lot of conversation, with the author, but especially with all the Moderators. We've never been afraid to admit or correct mistakes.

To the best of my knowledge, though, we've never gone to all that trouble when the poet's most convincing argument was "Bite me!" Having a poem pulled isn't really a big deal. Total disrespect for others is.

Honesty is pretty important to us, too. You may well be "kinda new here," WrathChild, but since you're sitting at Daniel's computer I'm sure he can show you all the ropes.  
WrathChild
New Member
since 12-10-2001
Posts 8


19 posted 12-10-2001 07:58 PM       View Profile for WrathChild   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for WrathChild

I really think that Carlos's best argument wasn't "bite me".
His best argument was his original post that was both respectfull and intelligently thought out. I agree that he was a bit disrespectfull later on his replys but, I guess he got mad or something. You should read over again the poem and interpret it correctly. For it is about love.

WrathChild
rolly_polly
Member
since 10-10-2001
Posts 50
puerto rico


20 posted 12-10-2001 09:39 PM       View Profile for rolly_polly   Email rolly_polly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rolly_polly

*Covers eyes*

~parallel universe~

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


21 posted 12-13-2001 02:23 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I am sorry that I did not have the opportunity to read the original poetry that caused so much "biting" between members. But there are lots of other sites where you are free to post anything you want, and nothing is censored, not even rude or violent poems or replies. I left such a site after having more than my fill of "poetry" that I personally considered offensive. It was my mature personal choice. We all have choices, no one forces you to participate. But this is not an open "public" poetry room free-for-all. It is a privately owned site, and we must all behave according to the established houserules of the host, or go elsewhere.
NapalmsConstantlyConfused
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Senior Member
since 05-15-2001
Posts 960


22 posted 12-26-2001 09:42 PM       View Profile for NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Email NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for NapalmsConstantlyConfused

(clears throat)
(speaking as someone who has had more than one post removed)

carlos, you're out of line here.

it serves no purpose to flame the mods, even if all you're doing is blowing off steam. they're human too, and once you piss them off, they're highly unlikely to jump in on your side.

i, too, have fallen afoul of the rules of the house, in ways which i found highly questionable at the time, but with discussion i have always been able to reach a point at which i can be satisfied that (even if it's not perfect) the rules are being enforced in the best way possible considering the limits of the software, etc., etc.

you may very well have a point about the subject matter of your poem; i haven't read it, so i wouldn't know. i do know that calling them names and saying "your rules bite" is a very good way to get yourself banned, without accomplishing anything.

i know from first-hand experience that although it is annoying to see your poem edited without your foreknowledge, you can live through it. it is in no way life-threatening. the only thing at stake is your ego, and once you get past the bruises on it to look at things rationally, and attempt to discuss them with the moderators, you can always get an explanation, even if not a solution.

if this is not good enough for you, then by all means go to another poetry site. i'm sure you will be welcomed there. i think it's sad that you can let such a minor event take you off this site forever, but that said, there's not a whole lot more i'm willing to do to keep you.
especially when your first reaction to this setback is to openly post private emails, which, even if Ron says it's ok, is still rude. whining about the rules of the house is no way to change them, man. Ron may not agree with your suggestions, but i know for a fact that he will at least listen to them, especially if you make a sorta half-baked attempt to present them in a rational fashion.

personally, i suggest ranting to your available audience at home first, maybe your girlfriend, or whatever... blow off steam there, rather than here. then you might receive a better reaction here.

-Dave
 
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