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Passions in Poetry

Non writers

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Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


0 posted 09-24-1999 04:02 PM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

I had a member e-mail me a letter, and
wanted to find out the conscences (sp?)
of other members on this particular issue.
I think that we all would like acknowledgement whether it's posting poetry
or posting a comment. My plea is that
we be aware and remember to say "thank you".
A personal e-mail on many occasions seems
to me would be appropriate.

Question 1: How do you feel about non writers
posting comments to your poetry?

2: If you feel their comments are
welcome and appreciated the member requests
to show courtesy by answering their replies.

3: Any ideas on how to aleviate this problem?

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert



Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


1 posted 09-24-1999 10:16 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

To be honest, I love it when non-writers reply to my poetry! I get fan letters from readers on the main site and from my own web site..they are precious to me! I respond to each one, thanking them for taking the time to tell me how they liked my work. One of my best 'internet buddies' replied to a poem I posted over a year ago!

Regarding replies: do you want me to respond to each comment? I don't like to insert a reply to your reply...besides I usually post a poem at night and then as I work, I don't have a chance to reply to each reply during the day.

I'm not sure I have time for an e-mail to everyone who replies..I hope I don't offend you all...but I just can't do it! If I talk to you on ICQ, I will of course thank you.

Does this mean no one will read my poetry anymore? Ok...I understand ...
DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


2 posted 09-24-1999 10:23 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Considering that the bulk of society does not write verse but reads it, replies from non-writers are vital to anyone who wishes to become published. The recognition of peers and fellow poets is of extreme value to those wishing to perfect their craft, though I would ask what they are perfecting it for if not the non-writers of society.

On the subject of replies and e-mails, I do not reply to each individual. Such would clog Open poetry and my verse. I do however send e-mails where appropriate.

------------------
Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilŠ



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 09-24-1999).]
Dark Angel
Member Patricius
since 08-04-99
Posts 10270


3 posted 09-24-1999 11:24 PM       View Profile for Dark Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dark Angel

Julie, I agree with both PDV and DreamEvil. I appreciate all the comments I get for my poetry whether it is from writers or non writers I usually try to respond to each comment made. Thank you

------------------
What comes from the heart goes to the heart.
Samuel Coleridge


Kelly
Member
since 07-03-99
Posts 153


4 posted 09-25-1999 03:22 AM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

Julie,
I'm not sure I understand. Are people complaining about non writers posting comments? I'm a non writer who loves reading everyones poems. I'd hate to think I'm not welcome just because I don't write. Isn't there such a thing as an audience. How many people are complaining?
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 09-25-1999 03:46 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Hell, I'm just happy when ANYBODY responds! LOL
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


6 posted 09-25-1999 04:15 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Kelly, I think it's the other way around. A Member who posts comments but not poetry was concerned they were being "ignored" by the poets. For reasons still not clear to me (Julie is investigating), the non-writer (and, boy, I hate that misnomer!) felt that all the poets were carrying on a converstation in the threads and the non-writer was being excluded. (It's really hard to write this and still avoid gender determination! )

The few who have already responded to Julie's question have all stated what I sincerely hope is the consensus of everyone at the forums: whether you write and post poetry or just come here to read, you are an equally important part of the equation that makes Passions work. Writers and readers depend upon each other; without the one, the other ceases to exist.

To the best of my knowledge, no poet at this site has ever complained about getting responses , either from other poets or from readers. All of this, Kelly, is the long answer to your question. The short answer is: Keep reading, keep commenting, keep enjoying!

Kelly
Member
since 07-03-99
Posts 153


7 posted 09-25-1999 06:23 AM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

Ron,
Thank you for clearing that up. I thought I misunderstood. The suggestion wasn't clear to me. I don't think it's a good idea to thank everyone who comments on a poem. (unless the poet just wants to keep their poem on top)
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


8 posted 09-25-1999 06:59 AM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Julie: Great point to raise.

I have to confess I write for me and respond to others for them but I love it when someone does take the time to add a comment especially when there are so many great poems out there...I often wonder why someone picks one of mine, what was it that appealed but I guess somewhere along the line something struck a cord in them or perhaps a part of me came across...

As for 'who' it is that responds, it makes no difference to me..I'm just grateful someone did, fullstop!

I do have a problem though in responding back when someone makes a comment, knowing it will go to the top seems a bit cheeky somehow but if you don't, the respondee may think you never even noticed that they had made a comment...so I'd like to see somekind of special edit box that allows you to say a thankyou without going to the top but then how would the respondee know you had?..Huh...I know what I mean...ROFL

HUGS

ps: I'm off before I start to make sense to myself *g*

------------------
You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.



[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 09-25-1999).]
Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


9 posted 09-25-1999 03:16 PM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

Thank you all so much for responding. Your
input is what makes us work.

As Ron stated I did a little research. This
is what I came up with...

There are well over a thousand members on
this website, some writers, some hoping
to be, some not but just enjoy the read.
With this in mind I think we must also
take into consideration that people have
different lifestyles. Some are retired,
some are single, some have a spouse and
six kids, some work 65 hours a week...get my drift? So with that in mind I feel there
are also different types of members, how they decide to utilize does not mean it is
wrong or necessarily inconsiderate. There
are a number of reasons a person will or will not respond to your poetry or respond
to a comment posted from a reader.

Type a: Those who reply to no one. This group is lucky to have time to get online. Possibly someone with children, a hectic workweek etc. As I see it, this may be the only comfort they may receive in their busy life.This is also common among new members which is understandable. This is not written anywhere that it is a requirement for being a member. I for one did not respond or do much posting when I first came on...it was another member that e-mailed me that suggested it.

Type b: There are those who will address a reply in general, not naming anyone specifically. This person probably has
a busy schedule but still is making an
effort to say thank you.

Type c: There are those who seem to be pretty consistent, and will reply addressing people specifically.

My final thought: I can't explain everyone's reason for not posting to the reader or posting after something is read. I recommend
we try to forgive indiscretions. I believe all people are basicly loving and considerate, if they aren't there is usually
a good reason and most would jump to offer
an apology if they knew they had offended you. SO HAVE A GOOD TIME!

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert



Kelly
Member
since 07-03-99
Posts 153


10 posted 09-25-1999 08:37 PM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

Julie,
Maybe your anonymous non writer would do well to find a chat room. It sounds like maybe they're looking for conversation.
Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


11 posted 09-26-1999 12:16 AM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

No...that's not the case. The member had
a ligitiment point and in the past week
have had a number of other members express
simular thoughts. I just think broadening
our awareness of each other's position was something that needed to be addressed.

forum: a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion; a medium of open discussion or expression of ideas.

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert





[This message has been edited by Julie (edited 09-26-1999).]
Kelly
Member
since 07-03-99
Posts 153


12 posted 09-26-1999 05:38 PM       View Profile for Kelly   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kelly

I think in a POETRY forum it's only natural that the poets will receive more attention. I think the poets are very considerate. Many are thanking everyone by name. It's a shame someone like poet DeVine feels she needs to explain her schedule. When I first came to this site I thought she was the welcoming committee.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 09-26-1999).]
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


13 posted 09-26-1999 08:58 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Just a quick little two cents to Rainbow Girl's statements:
First, I don't think it's cheeky at all to allow your page to go back to the top. Many post here so that others can see there work. And often, the poems get shuffled down quite quickly. I try to make an effort to go through page 2, 3, etc, but at times, it's hard enough to keep up with page one. I am often finding poems that were pushed down a page or two, that get bumped back up by a reply from the author. And I am always grateful that I got a chance to read it instead of missing it amidst the endless pages of talent.
Point two: If you feel that strongly about not wanting to push it back up, maybe a good idea might be to e-mail them your thanks?

HUGS!
Iloveit
Senior Member
since 09-02-99
Posts 1168
NM


14 posted 09-27-1999 11:46 AM       View Profile for Iloveit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Iloveit

and hey julie, you forgot my type, I call me a combiation of b&c, I will thank everyone IF
a. my server is cooperating
b. my boss is cooperating
c. your server is cooperating
d. and it doesn't take forever to post

cause you are right, I have little time online, and I see so many poems I could read if I weren't waiting for my own thankyou's to post....know what I mean?

and the same goes for commenting, when a poem has 10 to 20 wonderful's after it and mine is gonna be just one more, and it takes my server 5 minutes or more just to post and get back to the poems, I might opt to read it and not comment and go on to another poem....now I realize this is not the best way to do things, and it is not what is in my heart....if I could I would just live here reading and commenting....I love it here, but as is only have a small amount of time online and try to get the most of it...
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


15 posted 09-27-1999 01:54 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Chris: Thanks for the feedback.. I usually try to wait until someone reads it and it's fairly near the top, then I don't feel so cheeky..*g* Maybe I'll have to learn to be more forward...ooops

HUGS

------------------
You give but little when you give of your possessions. It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.

Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


16 posted 09-27-1999 11:16 PM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

lloveit: It means a lot to have you here. We have to be careful about the standards we
set, to me it's like saying, if you don't
spend x amount of time reading and replying
well...we just don't need you. This kind
of attitude will close down PIP in a very
short time. Like I said before...a little
understanding whether I or you know the
real reason or not will go a long way...
Haven't you often said about someone you cared for..."gee what's wrong with him/her, oh just probably didn't get enough sleep or just got tied up at work or etc, etc...

I know Ron is working this out as we speak...right Ron?

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert



Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


17 posted 09-28-1999 12:32 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Now, I'm really lost...what standards are we setting here. If only one person reads and responds to a poem I post and is touched by it, I'm happy. If no one replies to my poem, I may be a little sad but I didn't write it to please anyone but myself.

I first submitted poetry on the main site. Gratification was not instant. It took time to realize that people were reading what I wrote. Shortly after the site started growing, Ron instituted the first forums. I chose not to post there as "instant gratification" was not my goal. It wasn't until several months passed that I finally joined in...and I was also here when this forum opened.

I anxiously wait to be able to submit to the main site..not because I don't like the forums, but because the 'readers', the non-poets if you will, can then read and respond. It may take weeks to know if something I wrote touched someone. But, oh! When that e-mail comes and someone tells you how your words affected their life..let me tell you - it's glorious!

If I'm off track, please let me know! Thanks for reading!
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


18 posted 09-28-1999 02:31 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Let's get back to the original thread for a minute. The complaint was that a member who doesn't contribute poetry felt slighted because poets were ignoring them. I rather strongly suspect that the perceived cause of the slight was probably in error, but the slight was likely legitimate. What I've seen in many, many instances are members carrying on a conversation, back and forth, within a thread. And that's fine. But if you are going to thank a friend for replying to your poem, you need to be courteous enough to thank those you don't know as well. And I suspect the chances are pretty good you just might make a new friend in the process. Like any other group of people, it sometimes takes a while to meet others, to become a "part" of the group and stop feeling like an outsider. That's inevitable. But we can either make that process easier on our new members, or we can make it harder. I think what the original complaint shows us is that we haven't always been making it easier. So, we just need to try a little harder.

As far as the non-newbie members are concerned with replying to others, there aren't and never have been any hard-and-fast rules. Nor do I think there should be. If commenting on poetry becomes an obligation, it becomes a meaningless exercise in futility. Do we really want mandatory appreciation? All of us write for different reasons. And I suspect all of us post for different reasons than we write. We can't force people to acknowledge our efforts. All we can really do, any of us, is try to do our own part. And trust that our family of friends will do theirs.

In closing, I'd like to emphasize a little of what Poet deVine has said, and perhaps takes us again back to the real theme of this topic. Poets write first and foremost for themselves, and secondly for their readers. If we write only to garner responses from our peers I think we're missing a very important point about poetry. Peer-to-peer networking is both fun and an important part of learning. Being part of a close-knit family of friends, as we've found here, is maybe even more important. But communication is the real reason all of us do this, regardless of what we are trying to communicate. And that takes readers.

There are going to be a few surprises, I hope, when the new software is together. Surprises that will tie the forums much closer to the main site, and I think strengthen both. And I hope it will increase the audience we all want for our work. Sometime later today, September 28, the one millionth visitor will click their way into Passions. How much appreciation does that represent? Numerically, probably not as much as you get in here. But sometimes, as PdV has alluded, that appreciation is virtually priceless.

I want to share with you an email I received earlier today, from one of those one million visitors to the main site. I want to share partly to reinforce and make concrete what PdV and I have said, but also partly because it made me feel really good to be a writer. And I wonder, sometimes, if there is any better feeling than touching the life of someone you know you'll never meet?

quote:
Mr. Carnell,

I am a 28 year old mother of 2 and wife of 7 years. I am truly a
hopeless romantic and believe in fairytale endings. My husband started a new
job at the beginning of the year which required a lot of travel. Being away
from him made me wonder if my life was headed in the right direction. I
struggled for months trying to find myself. I even sought comfort of another
man online.~ But you must know that when my husband and I first "saw" each
other we knew it would be eternal love. But as some people say, when you get
married and settle into everyday life, things change. This last year I saw
the change in me, and I hated myself for allowing that change. I have always
felt that romance shouldn't have to fade when marriage and children enter the
picture. I have a dream of EverAfter happiness and when I stumbled across
your poems, they made me realize that I wasn't lost, I merely veered away
from the path for a while. My true prince will be forever and your poems are
partly responsible for that. I truly thank you for being so talented with
your thoughts from your heart and even more thankful for you allowing others
to feel them!


As Poet deVine said: it's a glorious feeling. And isn't it really why all of us are writers?


[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 09-28-1999).]
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