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Matters of Perspective--Part I
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Matters of Perspective--Part I |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738
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She'd manipulated the situation so that she could stay behind. The party was great, and she loved the guys, but she suspected an ulterior motive in the invitation to take the ride with the boys to Alfred's home. She had even felt somewhat flattered by the knowing leer in Alfred's eyes when she was invited to go along. "My god you're desperate," she thought to herself, embarrassed that her life had come to a point when she mistook lust for a compliment. "I think I'll stay here," she said, noting her husband's relief. True enough, she would still be in the company of another man, but it was apparent by the look in her husband's eyes that he had considered the situation, and agreed that staying at Paul's was the lesser of two evils. Her husband smiled and kissed her cheek, saying, "I won't be gone long." He looked to Paul and added, "Take care of my baby." She shook her head amused as the door slammed behind them. His baby. She hadn't been "his baby" for some twenty odd years, but she shrugged off his obvious claim of territory and sat back to enjoy the sudden quiet as her husband exited, taking the most raucous members of the party with him. Paul began tidying up the cramped kitchen immediately. They were old friends and she enjoyed a mildly flirtatious relationship with him. They were very fond of each other. Paul was boldly frank about it, and she felt safe in his presence. He wasn't like the others. He had tried once, long ago, to see if she was up for a game of suburban affairs, and she blushed slightly as she remembered the night he had driven her to the lounge where his former wife was in employ. He had pulled over to the side of the road, smoothly sliding across the seat then, saying how attracted he'd always been to her. "We have so much in common." She almost laughed out loud as she recalled her answer that had stopped him cold: "Yes, Paul, we certainly do--we both love your wife." Now her blush deepened as she returned to the present time and found him studying her face intently. He was recalling the moment too. "You know I had to try," he grinned. "I'm glad that you did," she confessed. He turned on the small old fashioned radio that sat cleanly on his countertop, surprised to hear classical music. She raised her eyebrows as a question. "Oh yeah darlin'" he drawled. "Since my divorce, I've acquired good taste as well as good sense." Paul was a self-confessed redneck, and normally rambunctious in his manner, but somehow that manner had always been gentler with her. His former wife once asked her to an anniversary dinner with them, explaining, "He behaves for you and I want to have a good time." It was true too. He did seem to tone down his "noise" when in her presence. Now, he announced that he considered this an opportunity and intended to take advantage of it. Uh-oh. "It's not what you think, darlin', so put your daggers away." He had turned to the refrigerator and pulled out a platter with pre-baked redfish on it. "We're going to do something I've always wanted to do alone with you--have dinner." He placed the platter on the table then, and lighted the small candle that sat in the center. He then grabbed a bottle from under the sink. "It's merlot, and it might not go perfectly with the fish, but it's what I have." His tone was apologetic. She tapped her fingernails on the rock glass that sparked her amber whiskey, saying, "No matter. I've already ruined my palette--but please, you go ahead." The silence between them was easy, and she enjoyed the pampered feel of the moment, watching him uncork the wine with unexpected finesse. "Do you know how long I've dreamed of this moment?" She said nothing in reply, fearing the situation would turn awkward by an advance. She sighed. She was enjoying herself and didn't want this momentary peace to dissolve into a misunderstanding. He ignored the body language of her discomfort and continued: "The day my divorce became final, you were the first woman I wanted to call." He sipped from the wineglass then as a pause before he turned back to the refrigerator to produce a lemon, continuing his discourse as he pulled a wooden chopping block from seemingly nowhere. She remained silent as she watched him roll it juicy across the board before cutting. "Yep," he continued, "I wanted to call, I wanted to see if maybe I had a chance with you." He smiled at her and she still said nothing. "Then I realized that I want the best for you, and I don't live up to my own expectation of what you deserve." He shook his head and laughed. "Hell, I'd be wanting to kick my own ass after awhile. I'm too set in my ways, and I'm too wild, even now when I'm too old and tired to be as crazy as I used to be, I couldn't be the man that I think you deserve." Her mouth was open in surprise, so she took a sip of her whiskey as a pretense. "I wanted to call you, but I knew, even if you would leave 'him' to come be with me, you'da wound up hating me and I woulda hated myself." He stopped and smiled at her shyly. He squirted the cut lemon across the fish before he popped the feast into the microwave. "Some things are best left alone I guess." She sat there stunned at his simple confession and then jumped as the moment was shattered with a knock at the door. He looked sorry too, as he went to let in his unexpected guests. The moment was gone. |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
Oh I am SOOO looking forward to reading Part 2 give me more Mxx and i knew in the crystalline knowledge of you |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
read it. liked it. don't agree with some of it. smiled. left.   egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Help me out C? I'm having a rough time with p.o.v. here. frown seriously? How 'bout a bit more constructive critique? I'd much appreciate it.  and hugs Maree, I'll be talking to you soon, luv. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Right now, I'm so frustrated I could scream. (Oh alright, so I did scream.) I'm soooooooooooooo not liking my writing tonight. So maybe if ya'll could help me out here--I need some help with yes, smile, matters of perspective. I need to know which parts of this is not believeable. Where do I lose your attention, if I succeeded in getting it at all? Is the pace too slow? Or does it seem rushed? By all means play editor with any punctuation corrections or spelling. sigh. I know this ain't my best.  So C? You know how there is like a writer's orgasm that occurs when things come out well? Let's just say I didn't exactly get myself "off" with this piece. So, read it again? I know I'm a pain in the ass. If it helps any, forget anything I ever told you about my life, and pretend that this isn't thinly veiled autobiography. (It's ALL fiction, of course!) I need help folks. sigh. The family doesn't even notice when they hear "ARGGGGH" from my room anymore.  I cannot believe it took me four hours to write this. *serenity exits grumbling and rubbing her head* |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
no promises, k, but if i can dredge up the time somewhere, i'll give you some more feedback. fwiw, i didn't notice any issues with perspective. egowhores.com - really love yourself. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I'd appreciate it C. I'm thisclose to saying to hell with it all. |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
As you've discovered, Karen, the great drawback to a first-person POV is the inherent limitation on what you can reveal. If the narrator doesn't see it, think it, or know it, there's no mechanism for sharing something with the reader. That can make it difficult to tell most stories, especially longer ones. A shifting third-person POV, on the other hand, allows the writer to "see" from many angles, and the reader can learn things one character might know and another may not. It can make for a more complex story, but I think equally important, it can make for a more complex mix of characterization. It adds depth almost impossible to achieve with first-person. As we all know, however, everything comes with a price tag attached. The strength of a first-person POV is intimacy. When the reader sees a few I's and me's in the narration, they immediately slip into a very personal relationship with the narrator. They become the narrator very easily. Not only is that the way we've been trained to read over most of the past two thousand years, I'm sure it's just part of the human psyche. Few of us, I suspect, daydream in third person? The depth we gain from a shifting third-person POV comes at the cost of that easy intimacy of first-person. So . . . the writer has to work extra hard to get it back. Your voice, Karen, is very different from mine, and I'm loathe to risk discouraging yours with suggestions that don't fit your style. Have you read Hemingway's short stories? Especially "Hills Like White Elephants?" Your voice is bit like Papa's in the sense that detail is often kept to a minimum. Hemingway was an absolute master at telling the reader exactly what they needed to know and not one iota more than they needed to know. His prose is like a haiku, every word, every narrated observation finely honed to a sharp, cutting edge. Hemingway felt that omitting the right thing from a story could strengthen it, and likened his stories to an iceberg where the motion and momentum came from the 7/8 that always remained hidden below the surface. I can't do that.  As a writer, I rely on detail to help establish intimacy, to help suck the reader into "becoming" the narrator for a brief time. That's my limitation, of course, and it's one I wouldn't foist on you. So, PLEASE -- take my suggestions with a very large grain of salt. Pick out what might make sense to you and just throw away anything that might interfere with your natural voice. First, it's important to remember that third-person POV is not just first-person with all the pronouns switched. Third-person Limited still means you can't reveal anything unknown to the narrator, but unlike first-person, you don't have to supply motivation for every thought or observation. For example, it's almost a cliché to have your first-person narrator walk by a mirror so the reader can get a glimpse of what our heroine looks like. We don't need such obvious devices with third-person, however. "I think I'll stay here," she said, knowing she was manipulating her friends and not caring. I changed your opening only to avoid what I thought was an awkward "She'd" contraction. I didn't tell the reader WHY the narrator was manipulating people (not a situation, which is too impersonal), so they would immediately have a question that needs to be answered. The "not cared" probably doesn't fit with your protagonist at all, but was just an attempt to quickly characterize her for the reader. In fiction, they should be able to see more than they would looking across the room at someone in McDonald's. At thirty-five, Jenny knew she was still attractive. Twelve years of marriage, two kids, and the inexorable drag of gravity had robbed her of beautiful somewhere along the line, but she could still lay claim to attractive without fear she was just fooling herself. Five foot six wasn't too short, but it wasn't too tall either, and if her curves were a little fuller than they had been in college, men didn't seem to mind too much. These men clearly didn't. Again, this likely doesn't fit at all for your protagonist, but is meant to give the reader a more detailed picture in their head. This would be hard to write smoothly in first-person, but should flow very naturally in third. Note, I named your character, which will help eliminate a lot of "she" pronouns that sometimes sound redundant, Of course, you should also note that Hemingway didn't name either of his characters in the short story I cited earlier. The party was great, and she loved the guys, but Jenny knew men well enough to be suspicious of Alfred's invitation to take a ride with the boys over to his house. She had even felt somewhat flattered by the ill-concealed leer in his eyes. Only slightly reworded to avoid the clichés "ulterior motive" and "knowing leer." "My god, you're desperate," she thought, embarrassed her life had come to a point where she mistook lust for a compliment. I eliminated "thought to herself," since she's unlikely to think it to anyone else. As much as I like this line, I would probably rework it in a latter draft to help the reader avoid confusion between what is internal dialog mixed right in the middle of exterior dialog. If the character is prone to soliloquy, I might take her thoughts out of quotation marks and just italicize them. Something, anything, to set them apart from the real dialog that comes before and after. The look on Eddie's face was one only she would recognize, relief she had turned down the invite, mixed with concern his wife would still be in the company of another man for an hour or more. He didn't like it, she knew, but his narrowed eyes and softly chewed bottom lip agreed that staying with Paul would be the less of two evils. Jenny wasn't so sure. This is more of a rewrite than necessary, but this was also the only part in the whole vignette where you were even slightly in danger of slipping out of your POV character. You really do a great job of maintaining POV, but I thought "the look in her husband's eyes" was maybe too vague to make it clear it was still Jenny's viewpoint. You could probably do the same thing with substantially less of a rewrite. "I won't be gone long," Eddie said, leaning to nuzzle her cheek with a mumbled kiss. He looked to Paul and added, "Take care of my baby." Jenny shook her head, amused as the door slammed behind them. His baby. She hadn't been his baby for most of a decade, not since the first time he came home and threw her down the wooden steps of their old second-story apartment. That was before Eddie's promotion, before their move to suburbia, before two kids and a rottweiler trained to protect all that was his. His baby? Jenny shrugged off his obvious claim of territory, much as she ignored the rottweiler, content to enjoy the sudden quiet as Eddie took the most raucous members of the party out the door with him. Okay, I'm just getting carried away now, rewriting your story, a sure sign I should stop here. I'm just trying to add more detail, more backstory, but in doing so, I'm almost certainly heading in directions you didn't intend. One more quick point, though, before I go (part of your story I'm NOT going to rewrite, I promise). When someone says something in a story, the writer has to choose between quoting them or summarizing them, and it's not always an obvious decision. In your story, you chose to quote Paul's wife ("He behaves for you and I want to have a good time."), but then immediately followed that with a summary from Paul (Now, he announced that he considered this an opportunity ...). I would probably reverse that, based simply on each character's importance to the story. All in all, it's a great little vignette, Karen, and shows a lot of promise. You've got the story right, I think, and that's a whole lot harder than getting the words right. You should probably ignore my mangling of your story, and just remember instead my point that third-person limited is more than just first-person with different pronouns. You get a little more freedom and, since the cost of that freedom is intimacy and comes so high, you need to take advantage of it at every opportunity. The next thing your read in third-person, I suspect you'll start noticing the liberties taken that would seem awkward in first-person. BTW, don't be discouraged, either, over the amount of time it takes to build new writing muscles. I don't think it should ever come too easily, but practice will eventually make a huge difference, and it should, in time, at least become comfortable. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Thank YOU!  I'll have more to say after I feed the rottweiler, but yes, this is exactly the stuff I was hoping for. er, for which I was hoping? *wince* I'm too close to the subject to critique myself well, and I really need the honest feedback. As I told Jan, switching from first person narrative, I felt like I was stumbling around in high heels after a lifetime of running barefoot. Thanks again, Ron. Yer a doll. I'm off to feed the troops for now. (Just a quick perusal of your thoughts for now, but I found myself nodding agreement too.) You really are a doll. |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Gads, I'm sure Ron's been in here before, but I think it's the first of his that I have ever encountered, and he said... quote: Don't we learn something new EVERY day? Of course we do. Karen, I loved this! I thought, OMG, she's DOING it!!! She's SERIOUS.... and then I thought, thank God it's about time! You have a flair for telling stories, Karen. Follow Ron's suggestions, read a few pages from The Right to Write and anything else Julia Cameron has to say on writing [The Artist's Way; The Vein of Gold] and honey... I'll buy every book you produce. I love you, and know that you can do it. But only if you WANT to.... It's a leap of faith, baby.... |
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Janet Marie Member Laureate
since 2000-01-22
Posts 18554 |
As I read this thread, I couldnt help but take note of your own replies as much as I did the story... knowing how you write..and knowing how it usually flows, I'm thinking youre so distracted by concentrating on the POV that youre not in full touch with the inspire and the muse... Let yourself get comfortable with writing in the diffrent POVs, let some of these next attempts be practice and dont beat yourself up over how long it took or that youre not having writers afterglow yet Ka, your gift for storytelling has always been apparent in your prose...Go back and read some of the ones that you felt that rush when writing...maybe use them to rewrite in the different POV? When you set a scene or define a character.. you put us in the room, we smell the smoke and hear the music...and with your flair for developing characters.. we feel like we know them.... I remember you wrote one about a girl getting dressed to go out... and I felt like I was sitting in her room wathcing her do her hair... and I recall another -- observations of a woman smoking a cig...and another about being at a concert... and the one about when your parents met... "fresh laundry" See? years later and the writing left an impression. I have no doubt once you study this new style and "build your POV muscle" ... youre gonna be a contender. Its been so cool to watch your writing evolve in the past 5 years... rhyme, prose, FICTION...*lol* .. you rock And?...Ive always known you were serious... we moths just get distracted sometimes   |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
"Sometimes I take it a bit too seriously," serenity thought to herself. THOUGHT TO HERSELF? ROOKIE ERROR DAMMIT!!!  Thanks so much Ron, because yanno? It's stuff like that that produces my infamous "ARGGGH" and startles my loyal dogs to hastily exit my room over here. The cliche's too. You are absolutely right, and it really is just lazy. And I knew that there would be some confusion with another part that you singled out, but I didn't know what to do or how to best handle it, so I thank you particularly for this comment: "When someone says something in a story, the writer has to choose between quoting them or summarizing them, and it's not always an obvious decision. In your story, you chose to quote Paul's wife ("He behaves for you and I want to have a good time."), but then immediately followed that with a summary from Paul (Now, he announced that he considered this an opportunity ...). I would probably reverse that, based simply on each character's importance to the story." (If Christopher is reading this, I'll bet he's smiling, because I believe it was four years ago he told me I had this same problem, even in first person.) And trust me, you could have re-written the entire thing and I wouldn't have minded. This was an exercize, the story lifted out of an e mail to a friend, and I thought it would suit my point of view exercize nicely. (I was rather confident that I could tell the story, but not so confident about the writing of the story.) I've spent the past six weeks reading and hard critiquing several published novelists, and this was the first foray that actually made it past my self-flagellations to public view. I was so unhappy that I fled the homestead tonight to talk to a lady about a...j-o-b. Laughing. (No worries folks. No heels? No Hostess job, and um, smile, it's their loss. *wink*) But I'll save this thread, as much for the study of all of the excellent advice as well as a great example of how to critique something without stomping all over someone's feelings. I tend to be a harsh critic. I hope it's understood too, that I'm toughest on myself. Kari, thanks for the warmth of your encouragement, and Jan? You KNEW, as you always knew, that it bothered me most because it was forced. Thanks girlie, and lawsy, you have a better memory of what I've written than I do! And C? I'm still waiting for you, m'friend. But anyhow, thanks all for the patience, advice and understanding. This monitor almost hit the floor last night, a victim of my frustration. Serious? It coulda been. *wink* |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
I'd like to read this from Paul's point of view...and then....from a third person point of view. That's a good way to know which perspective works for the story. You know I love your writing and think you should be writing a novel! Your work is usually done in vibrant colors - magenta - purple - sunflower yellow. This story has more of an ecru feel to me. (does that make sense?) Don't throw this out - I'd like to read it when you're done tweaking it!  |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
*hugging myself* this is why I am here. to watch the real and to learn.  Karen...you teach with your success and your stumblings..you are brilliant. "too bad ignorance isn't painful" |
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miscellanea Member Elite
since 2004-06-24
Posts 4060OH |
Serenity, Don't know what to say. You didn't really lose my attention. Matter of fact, your story stimulated me to begin something I've never tried before-a story with a dying romance. Oh shucks, it begins as a romance, but it'll get drug out, hopefully to answer some unanswered questions about an incident I will never forget. Somehow or other, I have to clean the incident out of my system whether it means to write fictiously and way out of my realm of experience. And...I thought what Ron said about Hemmingway was excellent. My best piece is one in which the story was written around a a hidden romance--one that, if it EVEN surfaced to the story, it did it through mood only. The story was not about the events happening as one might think, but rather, about what was hidden. The story is by no means perfect and could use a re-writing, but I think it has great potential. Check out Journey Beyond a Wedding to read what isn't there. Let me know what you think. I am only a beginning writer. What you see here is all I've written, so...take it for what it's worth. I do have a passion for writing, but no training. cathy [This message has been edited by miscellanea (03-04-2005 03:58 PM).] |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
You all are so kind. I'll be back to return the favor of reading--again, as I explained to Jan (she should charge me for listening to my madness) when I'm caught up in something I tend to get obsessive (surprise? ) and after I subconsciously lifted ideas from others in poetry, I decided I should try to shut everything else out when I'm writing, as I have a natural tendency to mimick.and Yes, Ron, I've read alot of Hemingway. *shaking my head* Very astute you.I-do-love-this-place. thank you all |
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littlewing Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655New York |
awwww now that is just not right, I was so into that K . . . cutting me off like that. Get writing, missy, I want more . . . This was amazing, I absolutely loved it! I just saw this: Let's just say I didn't exactly get myself "off" with this piece. I think it is a beautifully written piece, like a part unfolding, something larger, you know like a scene . . . just a glimpse . . so maybe that's why you felt this way . . . I mean, I did . . . only because they were disturbed . . . seems to me that maybe they both wanted something more to occur and it didn't. Writing like this IS tough, especially being used to writing poetry and just vomiting emotion pretty much, but this, Karen . . . is so very well written, I don't think you see that. I didn't even know it was the end of the story, I was scrolling down for more, then I swore at you. *grin* ha - ha what Ron said up there about Hemingway, I can't do that either, THAT is a gift, my dear Lady . . . I overwrite if I try to write prose. |
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littlewing Member Rara Avis
since 2003-03-02
Posts 9655New York |
I forgot to say how proud I am of you Karen.  |
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nakdthoughts Member Laureate
since 2000-10-29
Posts 19200Between the Lines |
I had this happen to me once ( sort of). One super bowl Sunday found myself in the local tavern...with my husband, and a good friend of both of ours. Of course by the evening's end there was too much drinking except for me. It had been at least 15 years or so since I had graduated college and another three since seeing one of my thought to be second loves. Words were being whispered until finally someone came up to me and said did you go to Towson State? Is your name Renee (that's what my growing up friends called me) Did you know a person by the name of Jimmy ******* and I sort of stared back in a questioning look. What and why are you asking ..and then I saw him in the dimmed lighting coming towards me. It is a strange thing when the heart stops beating for a second...when you think loving someone has ended and you least expect to run into them ever again. Especially when you have moved across state lines. By the evening's end the good friend who had drank too much had come up behind me and whispered how he had always found me attractive and was "in love" with me. Now this made me step back into the light and look this room over...here I was with the only two people I had ever loved in the same room in very close proximity and then another telling me his feelings...the only three people who had ever said they loved me...all in the same room. *and where are they now* ~smiling~ at the memories invading my thoughts from your posting the above. |
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