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Untitled Thoughts....
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Untitled Thoughts.... |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium 
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When I wrote this some time back, I wrote these words as the title: The Mind Thus Spoke ... what the mind should not have!!! That doesn't make much of a title, does it? After a lot of undecided moments, I thought of putting this here... just to see what you esteemed and wonderful writers think about this... a small note: this is not intended to be derogatory to any person's personal beliefs be it of religious nature or any other ... just a random chain of thoughts... Thank you for reading in advance... ------- Everybody desires, everybody wants, everybody lusts and everybody needs. So, what's new? All want what they feel is good for them. Moreover, what they feel is good for them is what they like. So they see a small perspective and see only that much that suffices their needs. Each tries to fulfil his/her requirements. Each tries to see to it that he/she achieves what each wants to. But, in doing so or at least in trying to do so, one often forgets that life is more than one’s needs and more than one’s desires. It is this myopic nature of each such thought that reaches out away from humanity and accuses others of the mistakes that they never committed and tries to humiliate the others into accepting the cruelty of life. What they don’t see is that in due time, life will turn out against them and that time itself will crush them into speckles of dust. From dust all come and to dust all must go. Nothing original here! The devil doesn’t understand this fact, so doesn’t want to know this truth, for the devil is a perceived to be believer of nothing but a pack of lies, which is bewildering because a liar will never be able to place a truthful statement. So a devil is a non-believer in the lie itself and hence the devil should be a believer of the truth, for the negation of a lie is a truth. This beings about an air of confusing contradiction. Hence we can definitely say that there is no true devil that exists, actually not even a false one. How uninspiring! Now every one accepts that the opposite of the Satan or the devil is the Lord or God, since the Satan is considered the usurper, the destroyer of all that the creator creates. So in the absence of the Satan, there must be no God, so the theory of a creator existing also becomes contradiction. How non-motivating! So we come to a conclusion that there can be no lie and hence no truth. Then what are we? The point that we exist is a fact, but is it the Truth? Is our existence (which we term Life) a fact or is it a virtual fiction? If it is a fact what is the negation of this? Is it Death? No, not death. Cannot be death. Death is often acknowledged as the culmination of Life, not the opposite. It is often said, “Death is the final truth of life”. This is what creates conflicting situations since it becomes a case of a truth of a truth, something like a super Truth, if Life is considered a fact. This is mathematically absurd. How depressing! Even theoretically, is it possible to have a second truth over a truth? Like a surrounding truth for a subordinate truth. So death is the almighty then and life is just a property or a phase of death. On the other hand if life is a fiction and not a fact, then death itself is the truth of this fiction, and that takes us to virtual reality. What is the whole point then anyway? What is life for? Is there a meaning to all this? Is existence real or not? Does it matter? The answer probably lies in the fuzziness of it all. So between the truth and false there lies a half-truth and a half-false. This must be the reason why people have ego, pride and vanity on one hand and sincerity, affection and love on the other hand. Which goes to say that it is normal to feel hatred for another being and liking for yet another. In addition, this also proves that there is not God and Devil as separate entities, but as one and the same or none at all. That is exactly why whatever is good for one is definitely not so good for another. So there can never be peace, there can never be silence. This is what makes the life exciting and adventurous and death too. Oh, does it? Can there be life after death? Not practical, one might say. I may agree too. But the believers of the theory of life after death. They must have their own reasons for this. Critics might argue that this is all based on the definiteness (or the absence of it) of one statement that death is the final truth of life. But if it were the first truth or if it was not a truth at all, then? Think. My head hurts! It can be also said that life is based on the improbability of existence in the first place. We must note that it is human nature to say something is not possible or not probable if in one’s judgement it seems that way. Also it is an agreed concept that nobody is perfect. Believers say that too, but with a difference. They say, “nobody except God is perfect” which can easily be antagonised as very demeaning and lowly. This is equal to accepting defeat before even preparing to think about trying to see if a win is possible. Victory! From what? What is a win anyway? Another point that could be raised at this moment is that people who believe that a zero exists, should also accept the infinity. In an infinite state, there is no finite existence, and hence no predictions can be true and therefore improbability is true, but even to say this would be improbable and this itself goes to an infinite loop. What a hoopla! It is seen thus that infinity is a chain of improbable improbabilities and hence not comprehensible at all, which is again a finite statement. So there cannot be any complete truth to this going on and on, endlessly. So there is no infinity. So there is no zero as well. Neither is there a negative infinity. God is thought to be infinite, a human to be zero (at least close enough to zero and being negligible) and the Devil to be negatively infinite (powerful in the Nether world). Too bad! So none of them exist anyway. What is the whole fuss about? We therefore have to believe in all that lies between one and one less than infinity (whatever the value of infinity is). Since one less than infinity is almost infinity (it appears much closer to infinity than one is from two), so we can’t believe in that too. So we could only believe in values between one and two less than infinity, which is so close to one less than infinity which is very close to one less than infinity. If we keep at this, we come to a point that we have to believe in something that is between one and infinity less than infinity that wan be said as approximately zero, since anything less than the same anything is taken for granted to be zero. As infinity is something not comprehensible, we can assume the difference to be almost zero. So that is it in binary arithmetic too. We have to believe in all values between one and zero, but since we can’t believe in zero, we can’t believe in one as well. Where does that leave us? Nowhere, exactly nowhere. That my dear friend, is exactly where we are, nowhere. Yet we try to get somewhere and that somewhere could be anywhere from nowhere. Shut up! Go away! Remember nothing comes out of nothing. So we can’t actually go anywhere from nowhere. This only means that we are stuck and will remain to be so. Good luck to you! You need it more than I do! It is all in the mind, it is so! It has always been so. It is all in YOUR mind, it is so! It has always been so. ~ [This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (edited 08-02-2000).] |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Victory! From what? What is a win anyway? Liked this one a lot!  You make a few statements here that I agree with Sudhir... interesting how the mind works, always interesting... Thank you for sharing a piece of yours! |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
Chris, Thanks a lot for reading this and am glad you liked it... Just wondering if it was clear that these were two minds in the head talking. One was giving away a speech like an orator (of a way of thought) while the other was challenging the essence of the those thoughts... regards, sudhir |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
You know Sudhir... I guess I'm just so accustomed to talking to myself (arguing... and usually losing the arguements!) that I thought it was more along the lines of exploring (your) own thoughts! Interesting to see that this came from separate minds... thought I will say it doesn't change what I feel is the import though! Like it when considered both ways! |
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Dusk Treader
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-06-18
Posts 1187St. Paul, MN |
Sudhir, you really know how to make a guy feel out of his league don't you? Heavy thoughts, but I think I sound more like the second voice! Abrahm Simons "Keep on dreamin' boy 'cause when you stop dreaming it's time to die" - Blind Melon |
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brian madden Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 4374ireland |
SUdhir you went really deep on this one. Alot of food for thought and it take sometime to digest this four course meal. VEry interesting thoughts on life the universe and everything. "I am melancholy, flower cutting through stone" manic street preachers |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Caught in the trap of dualism ... *whew*. Better you than me.  Quick question ... what if the devil (evil) was parasitical rather than God's (good's) equal and opposite? Just curious about your thoughts on the subject.Anyway, some really interesting stuff. Maybe you would consider posting some of the thoughts in Philosophy for discussion? Thanks for the thought provoking read. Jim |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
Chris, So there are many ways to look at a piece that increases the intrigue ... and makes me happier than before... Abrahm, Out of league, excuse me??? no my friend, not at all...  and I am glad that you could identify yourself with one of the voices... Thanksbrian, actually no, not very deep, I might conclude, for there are holes in the subjetc... but then thats a way to write, so people can relate to parts but never agree with the whole... and hence provokes more thoughts... Thanks for coming in on this one... Jim, philosophy it may be soon then... but not so soon as I am caught up a lot with work and related stress... (whats that?) Thanks a lot for reading and responding... .. and about the parasitical thought, my first impression is that evil may have to be equal and opposite to good else the challenge to the good and the glory associated with the victory of good over evil might be in a much diminished proportion... but then evil has to use cheating skills and fibs a lot to even compete against good... Ah here I go again.... well more later my friends, regards to all, sudhir |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Sudhir: Don't you know that the best part of being a continuous thinker is that you never figure things out to your satisfaction? I look forward to the Philosophy discussion.Jim P.S. It gets easier when you finally realize that you will never quite figure God out. P.P.S. I can't find the thread now, but my mentioning your number of posts/words per post ratio in another thread was meant to be construed as a complement. |
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Alle'cram Senior Member
since 2000-02-28
Posts 1816Texas |
Hi Sudhir! Has the caffine worn off yet? LOL I say that in absolute fun for I know part of you know the answers to the other part, to which you were speaking. I enjoyed! If ever you debate on this subject in a forum, give me a buzz, k? Enjoyed much. marcy |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
Jim, I am all btw I have something going on in the philosophy, wish to join? please do... Marcy, Thanks for coming in and it gives me immense pleasure to know that you enjoyed this... and as far as discussions go, I have just started one in the philosophy, so if you wish to join, I will be thrilled... regards, sudhir |
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Mark Bohannan Member Rara Avis
since 2000-06-21
Posts 7269In the winds of Cherokee song |
Sudhir--You know that I like to be provoked in the mind and you have done this well with this one and it will take awhile to circle through it all as I know it will circle. The battle of wits in our own mind between each other is the absolute truth and lie...and yet as you have pointed out so clearly these two do not exist ...therefore we do not exist and we are only a dream in someone elses head who they themselves do not exist.....so where does that leave us? Searching for the God or almighty being that put us here just to toy with our thoughts which they alone cannot exist either which means that I did not type this and you did not read it........Dream on.... Love the pondering I must go and do now. Thanks so much. |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
.... and the rope turns on and on .... Mark, Thanks, my friend, for coming in on this one... I can see that this got you interested... regards, sudhir |
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