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Religious Rant1
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Religious Rant1 |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Creation and Evolution are not disparate; they complement each other and go hand in hand, if you accept the premise of God. He created almost everything and set evolution in place so we could adapt to a fluid and changing environment. The only stumbling block to integrating Evolution and Creationism is the premise that God exists and since that cannot be proven, none have looked into the logic that facilitates such integration. There is some discussion about when the dinosaurs could have existed and theory range from Satan placed the evidence of them so we would doubt God's word, to pure evolution. I have found one verse in the bible that may hold a clue to such. It says that the Earth replenished itself. Interesting word there as replenished implies there was something there before that Genesis. Another interesting point to be made is that we tend to believe that humanity is the only intelligent life form He created. If we accept His omnipotence then it would follow that He created any other lifeforms in the universe. That certainly explains UFO's and alien abduction. Again, each of these points is dependent on a belief in God. One last bit of religious doctrine I wish to address with this rant and that is churches. Churches are unnecessary, as your body is a temple; it houses the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that a man is not defiled by what he takes into his body but by what proceeds from his mouth. This would invalidate the Christian Scientist belief that drugs pollute the body. The body is a temple and should not be polluted goes well with the other bit on defiling. The corollary being that your body's temple can only be defiled or polluted by your words and not by what you ingest. These are just a few random thoughts on apparent paradoxes I have seen within the Christian mythos, and I would welcome any other take on these issues. End of rant. ©1999 DreamEvil ------------------ Now and forever my heart hears ~one voice~. DreamEvil© [This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-13-1999).] |
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Dragoness Senior Member
since 1999-08-07
Posts 513 |
This is sure to start a philosophical debate. Well stated Dear Brother.I do agree ,of course now I'm thinking again! ------------------ Set you heart free and your mind will follow. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
See, the only problem with your writing that portends philosophical debates DE, is that I almost always agree with you. Such is the case here. So, in turn I will add a thought I have had for many years. Belief in "God," is based on a bible, or stories passed down, etc., depending on the belief. I submit that I could just as easily write a book, call it the word of some deity, and have it be no different than any other religion. What reason do we have to believe that any word of any deity is "gospel," so to speak. I believe it is quite possible that they are works of fiction. If you are supposed to feel the peace of God inside your heart, and know he forgives you, etc., then what use to have a book written? Another paradox if you will. Well stated DE, and I am with you 100% so far on this one. |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
Indeed, sure to be the subject of much debate but I agree with most all your points. A very well stated piece. Good job. ------------------ Michael Anderson When God puts a tear in your eye, He puts a rainbow in your heart. |
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Mike Member Elite
since 1999-06-19
Posts 2462 |
I miss the point. In any event, I would characterize the post as a ramble rather than a rant. I fail to see how a theological debate will rise from what would appear to be some rather sophomoric views on religion. But you certainly did explain the UFO's and alien abductions and the religous acceptance of the use of drugs. |
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JennyLee Senior Member
since 1999-09-01
Posts 1461Northwestern, NJ. |
Hope you're ready for the pot to be stirred!! I love It !!  Jenny |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Ok Mike, now that you've opened your mouth, would you care to provide some reasoning to back up you words. It seems to me a case of the pot and the kettle. Ironic that you speak "sophmorically" about an issue, calling it the same. If you have something valid to say I would be interested to hear it, otherwise I will just consider it as your viewpoint based on emotion, without you being able to logically back it up. |
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Saxoness
since 1999-07-18
Posts 1102Texas |
Creation and evolution are not complimentary, creation is what God did to create the world, Evolution is the developing of organisms. If you refer to evolutions big bang theory, which is the idea that the world just made itself, is in no way like creation. I don't know what bible you were reading, but in every translation i have ever studied, the bible starts with "In the begining, God created the heavensd and the earth" No where in my bible does it say that the waters were already here. Creation and evolution are at completely different sides of the spectrum. Dinosaurs did exist. I don't dipute that. It is common knowledge that God created the animals before humanity.Who says how long animals existed before God created man? The earth does replenish itself.....God created it that way. It's called growth.......like trees and such.....the whole global system. Just because the earth replensihes itself in no way means it was here before God. I completely fail to see how you came up with that conclusion. God created the earth, and created it in a way to replenish itself. Just because God is omnipotent, does not mean there are other life forms. Again, i fail to see your reasoning on that issue. I'm not saying there aren't other life forms, but since it isn't mentioned in the Bible, we believe there aren't. I agree with you when you say our bodies are a temple. Churches are for the gathering of believes, so we can worship together, be taught about God together, and fellowship together. Yes, our bodies house the holy spirit if we are believers, but the bible says that whenever two are gathered in his name he will be there. Churches are very neccessary. We pollute our bodies by letting in the bad. By not taking care of ourselves, mentally, emotionally, and physically. When we do not take care of ourselves, we loose part of our relationship with God, because we are putting other things above him. Now, to Chris Chris, we hold the Bible dear, because they are the teachings of God. It is our instruction book, if you will. The bible is not a story book. It is an account of the will of God, and a biography of the life of his son. It is not a fiction piece. I hope this clears somethings up a bit. ------------------ "Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me." -Charles Brugnot |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
On the point of bible saying he created the heavenc and the Earth, you are correct. However, growth is not replenishment and evolution is obviously at work as more and more people are being born without vestigal remnants such as the tailbone, wisdom teeth, and the appendix. How do you know that the Bible and christian mythos are any more valid than that of other religions? Faith? They have faith in their religions as much as you do in yours. So again, how can you say that your beliefs are the right ones? ------------------ Nothing is worse than sorrow, except perhaps disdain. I'll be myself tomorrow, tonight I'll feel the pain. DreamEvil© [This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 10-13-1999).] |
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Saxoness
since 1999-07-18
Posts 1102Texas |
I believe evolution does happen. I think every creature is evolving, but i believe God created us that way. I don't believe, however, that the living things on this earth spontaneously appeared. Your second question is perhaps the hardest question Christians are faced with. As far as God is concerened, just about every religion believes in a higher being controlling things. And, it is also a proven fact that Christ truly lived. However, that does not answer your question. We believe that Christ is the son of God, sent to earth to atone for our sins. We believe that no man may go to heaven except through him. As the bible states "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man may come to the Father but by me" I fear that I can not give you the cold hard facts, as you search for, except that in saying, when one discovers the truth, they know it. It's like a lightbulb being turned on. I don't have all of the answers. But I do know this. My faith is not that Christianity is true. Faith is trusting the unknown. I know this to be true. The wonderful thing about God, is that he gives every person the freedom of making their own choices. Some choose him, and some do not. Everyone will answer for their life choices someday. My faith is in believing that God is always with me, guiding me in his will. I hope this has shed some light on things for you. ------------------ "Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me." -Charles Brugnot |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
This question has always fascinated me ... so much so, in fact, that I have written a research paper on the subject, and given workshops to present my findings. I have a few points to add to yours, after I make some initial clarifications: When you say that evolution and creation complement one another, you must be careful to clarify exactly what you mean by "evolution"; essentially, there are two "types" of evolution: microevolution and macroevolution. Microevolution is what we have seen in action: the adaptation of species to better suit their environment ... "species" being the operative word, here, because the effects of microevolution do not transcend the rank of species (the lowest and least inclusive of the major taxonomic categories); that is, you do not get one type of organism from another, but rather a new and improved version of the same organism. Some excellent examples of this process, also called "speciation," are the famous Galapagos finches recorded in Darwin's The Origin of Species. The finches developed variant plumage and beak shapes/sizes according to their respective environments, but they were still finches. Darwin made many observations of the same phenomenon in many disparate organisms, ranging from barnacles to the domestic dog. Due to overwhelming evidence, microevolution can be considered a fact; it has been observed, it is repeatable, and, in the case of selective breeding (in domestic animals, for example), a common practice. This, however, is not the crux of the problem; the difficulties arise when one considers what Darwin tried to infer from his observations, which was the theory of macroevolution, or adaptation that acts on a larger scale, above the rank of species. It is here that Darwin's theory runs into some problems. First, inferring macro- from microevolution is quite a leap; its sort of like concluding that because I have the ability to change the oil in my car, I must also have the ability to completely rebuild it, even redesign it if necessary (I assure you that I most certainly cannot). A classic case of non-sequitur here; the one truly does not follow the other. Second, there is the nagging problem of lack of evidence. According to Darwin's theory, macroevolution would have occurred by way of millennia of microevolutionary steps -- presumably resulting in a long line of cousin organisms, each marginally better adapted than its predecessor, in the fossil record. While some lineages have been traced that seem to follow this pattern (the horse is perhaps the most famous), there is a stumbling block which occurs at the beginning of each: while we have several fossilized equine progenitors, we do NOT have the proverbial "lizard-horse," or what have you, which would suggest that a horse was not always a horse, of course. It is this absence of transitional fossils, which would mark the rise of one type of organism from another, which is the "missing link" in Darwin's otherwise believable theory. Well, while I could go on about this for days, statistics show that approximately 75% of my audience is asleep by now, so I will close. My point, in case you slept through it, is that while SOME aspects of evolution are reconcilable with creation (God created plant, beast, and man, then gave them the ability to adapt), others are most certainly not (God created nothing, life created itself and then adapted divergently to produce a plethora of disparate organisms). In fact, when one considers the evidence, not only is macroevolution irreconcilable with God, but appears to be at odds with science as well ... Nocht ------------------ "Nunc lento sonitu dicunt, morierus" (Now as I hear this bell tolling softly for another, it says to me, "Thou must die.") |
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Systematic Decay Senior Member
since 1999-09-15
Posts 1301That place with padded walls and funny people in white......... |
On the subject that the bible never mentioned alien life, I have two opinions. One, being that, how do we know after the bible was written, and forgotten by many, God didn't give up on this planet and move on to experiment with another type of intelligent life on a new planet? Two, for all we know, "God" could be some sort of alien life form that engineered us for their own purposes, but like a garden left untended, or an experiment gone bad, we have been left to our own devices, and look where it's gotten us. Or maybe we are the experiment, of an alien form, or a greater force that created us. Maybe they put some of us humans on several planets, under different circumstances, and are now just watching to see who destroys themselves first. The truth of the matter is, until we die and go to wherever it is we go after we die, we will never know for sure. ------------------ "Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage." -Billy Corgan- |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
And I ask again: How do you know the Bible isn't just a fictional account of man's words. You claim that it is God's words, but how do you know that? Because some "men" told you so? What if I were to write a book and claim it as divine wisdom? I am just a man...who are you to say that I haven't been influenced by a higher power? I'm not nagging your beliefs, merely asking you to give some justification beyond the simple ideals of "belief." |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
Christopher, whom are you asking?  Well, never mind, I'll put in my additional two cents anyway. Unfortunately, there is no way for anyone to give you "proof" of God's existence. If that were possible, it would completely undermine the idea of faith, or belief without certain proof, which is the basis for Christianity (and many other religions as well). There is no value in having faith in something that can be proven. You have raised done of the most difficult questions that any Christian, including Christ Himself, ever faced. It is difficult for logical minds to accept with impunity something that cannot be seen, heard, felt, etc. But it is something that hundreds of thousands of people have done nonetheless. You may argue that some have done so simply because they were in fear of the possible consequnces of non-belief, and in some cases, I would have to agree. It often happens, though, that such "fire insurance policy" faith leads to a deeper, more meaningful relationship with Christ. I agree in part with DreamEvil about churches; not that they are unnecessary, but that you MUST make your own Church, your own pact with God before you can truly reap the benefits of any communal gathering in Christ. For further reading, might I suggest the Holy Bible, your choice of translation (I like NIV and King James, personally), concentrating specifically on the teachings of the living Jesus. If nothing else, it might give you an insight into our mass hysteria. Respectfully, Nocht |
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Saxoness
since 1999-07-18
Posts 1102Texas |
Well, I truly have nothing to say, Seems like Nocht took the words from my mouth (not that I mind at all) : ) ------------------ "Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me." -Charles Brugnot |
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