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The Purpose of My Poetry
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The Purpose of My Poetry |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
The primary reason that I write poetry is to make people think. My personal reason is the expression of my feelings, thought, emotions, and beliefs. There seem to be aspects of poetry that have people taking sides. These being the technical aspect and content. I realize that there are proponents of both as well as those that view them with equal importance. My own belief is that a beginning poet should be concerned about the quality of their work, the reader of the piece should be more concerned with the content of the piece. I also realize that there will be those that are offended by this opinion. Those people should keep in mind that this is my opinion. Feel free to disagree with it but respect my right to it. That said, I will give my opinions of both aspects of poetry. The technical aspect of poetry, spelling, punctuation, and grammar do indeed have great importance. Spelling errors can indeed make a work harder to follow. One can usually figure out which word the writer intended however. Granted,most errors can be easily corrected. Punctuation is a little more difficult for me to give an opinion on as I do not usually concern myself with punctuation. I tend to put in whatever seems appropriate. I would point out that I am a little more careful with the prose that I write, going so far as to purchase a few books on essay construction and grammar. Again though,one can usually figure out the intent of the writer. Though having to interpret these things in a poem can reduce the enjoyment of the piece, I personally believe that an individual should consider how long an individual has been writing. I think that time is the best teacher and the more new poets are exposed to proper writing, the more they will learn to change their more common mistakes. Remember that the forums are not a school in the accepted sense, most are not here to be taught but to learn. There is a subtle difference. Being taught places the burden upon another, specifically the teacher. Learning relies upon the individual, their pace, and their ability to retain knowledge they deem necessary. Teachers tend to present information that is not relevant to what the indivivdual wishes to know. Individuals that wish to know more tend to go to college. The content of a poem is what I consider to be the most important part of a poem. Without content there is no need for proper punctuation and spelling. Bear in mind that I also believe that errors in spelling can dramatically change the tone and meaning in a piece. The content is what inspires tears or joy, moves the soul, or plucks the heartstrings. Content is the heart and soul of a poem, the technical aspect is the body. They should be seen as having equal importance in each poem. Not being a hypocrite however, I admit that is not the way that I see it. My perspective is admittedly somewhat different than most. I am broken in body, twisted in my darkened soul, and finally healing my scarred and emotion-ravaged heart. That healing is long in coming and due solely to the fiends and more that I have developed at the forum, all as a result of my poetry. The content of my poetry is what accomplished this, the spelling and punctuation merely supported it. I believe that stressing the technical too much causes those that are just opening up and speaking from the heart with their first verses will cause them to feel dejected and give up. They are looking for validation, not more criticism. Regardless of any attempt to change the bite of the words with flowery speech. Their giving up and the critcism that led to it reduces their need and inclination to express themselves and deprives the rest of us of us of the chance to learn from that expression of their feelings. I readily admit that we can't help or cater to everyone's needs, but when all it would take is a kind word we should go that far at least. Part of the problem with criticism is the perspective of the one reading the work. Teachers for example, criticize from a teacher's point of view. They tend to see more of the mechanical and technical aspects of it than those that just read for pleasure. There is no fault in this, only a difference of perspective. Recently, my eyes were opened to the potential impact that my opinions could have on those that are just starting to write, I shudder to think what effect even the casually voiced opinions of one who is far more qualified than I could cause people to think. Good as I am, there are many that are far better than me. It is why I struggle to learn and perfect my craft. Thinking about all of this leaves me with this final thought. Are we so set in the arrogance of our belief in the rightness of our opinions that we fail to see the effect that our words have on those that don't share our own point of view? Isn't that the purpose of writing, seeing and understanding another point of view? This turned into more of a diatribe than I had intended. I apologize to any I may have offended and I would hope that my opinions presented here are seen as such. End of rant. ©1999 DreamEvil ------------------ Shall I indulge in flights of fancy hampered by clipped wings? DreamEvil© |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Finally! |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
As usual I find something posted that I dread being the first to reply to. But reply I must as it is in my nature to spout my opinion whenever moved to do so. I agree (surprise) and disagree (not really a suprise) with much of what you had to say DE, so let me take this a step at a time to avoid confusion (mine mostly). First, I doubt anyone will be offended by your opinion, disagree perhaps, but offended? Certainly not. While I know little of the craft of poetry, I firmly believe that grammar, punctuation, and spelling are vital elements to any poem, whether written by a new poet or an experienced one. These elements govern the very flow and meaning of the poem, they tell the reader how to read the poem and how to interpret the meanings. Content or no, without the basic of English compostion in place, a poem is useless. Personally, nothing is more distracting to me that to try to decipher what could be a powerfully moving work. It looses it's abilty to bring me to tear, or laughter, or shock, if my mind has to rewrite it while reading it. As a reader, it is not my place to try to figure out how long someone has been writing, it is my job to enjoy, or not enjoy the poem. And on this site, to offer critique of that poem - whether it is posted in the open forum or the critical analysis form. Both places call for critique. The forums are a school if not that would be a museum, not an interactive, living entity such as they are. You say most are here not to be taught, but to learn? How can there be one without the other? What are we to learn if there is no teaching? Who among us can truly claim the desire to learn without the desire to be taught? If the individual is not being taught what they desire to learn, then who is responsible to redirect the teaching? The whole concept is interactive and the burden ultimately falls on the student. I agree with you on content, to me that is the heart of a poem, but equally important? Not always. If the piece is a structured peice (like some of Nan's impossibly formulated works of wonder), the structure is the focus, not necessarily the content. Ever read a Haiku about a spider's web? Pretty basic and irrelevant content, but the form is the work of art. Free verse is the work dependent on content, without content a work of free verse or prose is flat and useless. Finally, critique versus criticism: You've referred to criticism and causing it to lead others to give up writing. Most of what I've seen here is honest critiques of posted work - with the exception to a few references to my work as being "doggerell" I see little criticism. Nor do I see poets, and potential poets give up writing because Ron, or Nan, or PoetDeVine have disected a poem for whatever reason they may have had, because they do it with the best of intentions - to show the burgeoning artist that there is more to poetry than just throwing words down and saying "look at what I did". Now if what I have said, causes you offense, I can only say none was intended. I try to keep an open mind when reading other's work and I try to learn at every chance I get when I recieve an honest critique. I like my pats on the back, but I also enjoy a strong challenge... that is the way of a healthy life of learning and maturing. I got a long way to go and I hope some of you will take that journey with me. ------------------ Dum spiro, spero JP |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Your words that you choose to critique with are unecessarily strong. I am not concerned with those poets whose confidence is unshakable, but those who are writing for release. You make valid points, the chief of which is the difference of perspective that I talked about. I do indeed see vast differences between learning and being taught, that will be the subject of my next prose piece. To better explain my perception of those differences. Point though, Ron set up CA for analysis, he says that the forums are for instant gratification. Thank you for presenting your opposing view with decorum.  [This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 08-10-99).] |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
"Open Poetry (Registered Visitors) This is the place to go if you would like to post your poetry for open review, or critique the poetry of others." This is the description of the Open Poetry forum, directly from the Main forum page. I am sorry if the idea that someone will go into the open forum and actually critique your work bothers you, but afterall, the invitation is clearly there. I do not like to write negative comments about the work of others if I have nothing good to say about them, nor do I enjoy pointing out things that could be better, but I WILL NOT write glowing responses to a work that needs work. Nor will I respond to a poorly crafted poem if it has no merit for me emotionally or mentally. If you care to review my responses to the work of others, including your own, I think you will find them balanced, fair, and honest. I don't believe I have ever trashed someone's poetry out of spite (can you say the same?) nor ripped a work apart without pointing out the good that I see. One more point... why is it that the only time you accept a critical comment as a valid comment is when it comes from a woman? ------------------ Dum spiro, spero JP [This message has been edited by JP (edited 08-10-99).] |
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Gentle Soul Member
since 1999-07-12
Posts 273Vinton,Ohio USA |
I personally think it was well said DE... ;-) ------------------ Gënt£ë¤§°û£ |
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Saxoness
since 1999-07-18
Posts 1102Texas |
being (at the moment) more of a reader than a writer, I have to say that both JP and DreamEvil have valid points. However, in this instance, I happen to agree with JP. If you post your work, you must expect good/bad critiques. To be mad or offended and lash out un-neccessarily is not only immature, but shows a lack of confidence in the attacker. However, the comment that critiques can cause a new writer to quit are dead end arguments. If a writer chooses to quit because of a simple opinion expressed, this is to be blamed not on the commentator, but the poet, for being a shallow writer. Poetry is not written for political correctness, but for enjoyment. To put too many emotional restrictions on it is to take away from the power of the piece. Enough about that. Now, lets go on to grammar. While I believe it is agreed that grammar isn't the only thing important in a piece, I happen to think it is more important than content, so to speak. The content of a poem is hard to judge, because while one person may hate a particular subject, another may love it. And, that is what "content" is, the story that is being told. Grammar, however, can make or break a piece. the haiku is an excellent example. Let me give you a few other examples to support my opinion. first, I'll use Balladeer. His poetry subjects are VERY widely ranged. Yet, everyone seems to like his poetry. Why? because it is not only pleasing to the ear, but to the eye as well. He wrote a piece, called Hemingway revisits Sloppy Joe's. Here is an excerpt from it. The genius of the written word, The paragon of prose, The man who graced our portals Daily here at Sloppy Joe's. the flow and the rythym of the stanza make the reader more able to focus on the content, and make it more enjoyable. Now, look at the same stanza with poorly worked grammar and punctuation. ( sorry, Balladeer ) The genuis of the written word. The parragon of prose. The man who graced our portals, Daily, here at slopy joes. Now every one knows which one is better. The words are exactly the same, but without proper attention to the mechanics, it just isn't as good. A poem written about a bar would not normally catch my eye, but this piece was written so smoothly, I could not help but enjoy it. Here is another example. Shakespeare, as common a name as John Smith. Why is it, exactly, that his work is revered and praised so highly? The form is probably one of the biggest elements to his work as anything else. Look closely at some of the phrases used in his pieces. Some, have absolutley no wit or inteligence attached to them, but, used in the proper way....a simple sentence is transformed into a work of art. Shakespeare was at a master at his trade, because of the attention spent not only on the content, but to the form. To make a long tirade short, ( too late ) you simply cannot have a "good" piece of poetry without good grammar. I will not apologize for my opinion, because I believe in what I say. Harsh? perhaps. But honest. Thanks for the time. ------------------ "Glory remains unaware of my neglected dwelling where alone I sing my tearful song which has charms only for me." -Charles Brugnot [This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 08-11-99).] [This message has been edited by Saxoness (edited 08-11-99).] |
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Dragoness Senior Member
since 1999-08-07
Posts 513 |
I find I must agree that content is the most important aspect of poetry. What the writer is trying to convey, and how they choose to do so. Most write for the enjoyment of themselves and others. Feelings and emotions are often hard to fit in exact spots. While it can be difficult to read a misspelled word or poorly structured phrase, I think we are all intelligent enough to grasp what the writer was trying to express. A spell checker is not always accurate and some of us are not the best typists. As for critiques these are subject to what the poem means to the writer. I have seen some harsh and intentional cruel critiques. Flowing words of praise are nice, but knowing that someone understood what a writer is trying to say is more important. If I see a poem or prose that has misspelled words and grammatical errors I do point them out to the writer. Privately. Most didn't realize the mistakes they have made. Some of us come to the forum for the adulation, but most for the opportunity to learn and prefect the art of poetry. We all need to help each other in this endeavor. We need to be able to see past the imperfections and look at the meaning. Help to correct the imperfections without destroying the writer. No one can grow without that painful first step. But it's very difficult to take that step when one is constantly beaten down. Well done Dream. ------------------ Set you heart free and your mind will follow. |
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~one voice~ Senior Member
since 1999-07-08
Posts 664Billings, MT USA |
Dream, I also agree that content, spelling and punctuation are important. However, I also have to agree with the points JP has made. And I have to disagree with what you say about teachers. I may not be a teacher YET, but I grew up in a family of educators and I must say that in my own experience, neither I nor my parents look at ONLY the technical aspects of a poem or any other work of art. Honestly, I see everything as a work of art in one way, shape, or form. I look at the creativety and I marvel at the abilities of my fellow poets to express their emotions so beautifully. As an educator of sorts, it does bother me when I see a word that is not spelled correctly, but for me, it doesn't inhibit the meaning of the work itself. I do agree, however, that to read a beautifully written poem and also see it with no errors is almost perfection, in my eyes. I know I don't use punctuation and spelling correctly all the time, but I do take the time to correct my mistakes if they are pointed out to me. My number one problem is that I think faster than I can type. To get down to the real point that I wanted to make, I really don't see the need for a debate here. (Can't we all just get along?) I will leave a quote for you and those that read this: "I am not in this world to live up to your expectations and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful." (I can't remember who said this, but I do remember that it was on a poster in my highschool psychology class my senior year... this quote got me through a lot of frustration.) ------------------ ~onevoice~ "She looked at her life like lines, never-ending, constantly forming, reforming and bending." |
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JP Senior Member
since 1999-05-25
Posts 1343Loomis, CA |
All in all, I say this debate has been hashed and rehashed in about three different forums here at Passions. Attacked from different angles all for the same purpose - to get everyone to agree that honest critiques are not nice - I don't think this is going to happen. Ultimately, if I write something and anyone feels like critiquing it - please do, I will be a better poet for it. If you want to trash my work out of spite or anger, you're welcome to do that as well (at least you'll be reading and commenting on my work). My last suggestion: If you don't want honest critiques of your work - don't post here - as someone so eloquently put it "leave the poems in your notebook" (and please leave this debate alone from now on, this horse won't run anymore and hearing these same arguments is becoming tiresome.) ------------------ Dum spiro, spero JP [This message has been edited by JP (edited 08-11-99).] [This message has been edited by JP (edited 08-11-99).] |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Thank you, one voice. I understand your points well, I think. JP, I posted this as an answer to a question that was asked of me in Q & A, I did not mean to continue an ongoing conflict. Please, accept my apologies if that is how it came across. ------------------ Shall I indulge in flights of fancy hampered by clipped wings? DreamEvil© [This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 08-11-99).] |
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wayoutwalt Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 4870TEXAS (it's all big) |
i think saxoness is so right about how if a poet gets all bent out of shape bout what said bout there poem they get defensive (which i did once  ) and snap then they need just forgetaboutit and move on...now as to grammar and spellin more importante than content i dunno yuh they importante but content is the poets heart true i wontwanna get thru a poets post (btw everyone who writes poetry is a poet!!) but if it gets that bad yuh they puttin that on themselves if its subtle enuff i dont mind heck i dont punctuate for a reason...dont tell but i really dont know how but wont stop me from postin lest summin dont want me to no more than i go run and cry...o and also you people i love and talk to like every day know that i talk like this and sometimes i am hard as heck to follow (understand) no buddy every told me to shutup and go away (course it is annoyin i know) so yuh i say to words and if they spelled wrong well i sorry here the two words are Jack Keruoac!!!!! |
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DreamEvil Member Elite
since 1999-06-22
Posts 2396 |
Walt, you are truly humbling. Thank you, my friend. ------------------ Shall I indulge in flights of fancy hampered by clipped wings? DreamEvil© |
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