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Passions in Poetry

The Alley

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Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


0 posted 08-14-2010 11:33 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Is The Alley no more?   It doesn't even appear to be listed in the archives.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


1 posted 08-14-2010 11:49 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Hopefully it's been shut down for good - it should have been closed years ago.

.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


2 posted 08-14-2010 01:32 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

If the Alley is closed, it will also close out most of the sphere of discussion that happens at Passions and leave much silence where voices used to speak out about important issues.  This will basically be the end to any very on-going form of opinion-sharing and critical thinking at Passions and will turn more members away from the site that find such things included an important part of the forum and life in general (despite some negative things that inevitably come along with them).  I don't see how this will help the site.  

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


3 posted 08-14-2010 03:56 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

This will basically be the end to any very on-going form of opinion-sharing and critical thinking at Passions and will turn more members away from the site that find such things included an important part of the forum and life in general

I disagree, ess. If you take a count, you will find that less than 6 people account for more than 95% of the dialogue. The majority of members don't even know it's there. It will turn members away from the site? Hardly, unless their only purpose for being on a poetry site is discussion, which they can find on thousands of blogs. It's a poetry site. That should be it's major purpose. The Alley has not complimented the site....it has detracted from it's purpose, causing hard feelings along the way. Passions would be better off without it, in my opinion.
latearrival
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since 03-21-2003
Posts 4407
Florida


4 posted 08-14-2010 07:09 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

I noticed the Alley was gone. I read it three or more times a week. But it did get a bit tiresome because by the name on the post we could almost predict the discussions out come. And it went on and on. Good choice to drop it. And yes, there are many other blogs for this type of discussion. sincerely, latearrival
JenniferMaxwell
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since 09-14-2006
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5 posted 08-14-2010 09:58 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Not to worry, Ess, I'm sure there will still be discussions, just not in the Alley.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 08-18-2010 12:07 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I didn't even notice it was gone until today.

Um, SOMEBODY has been keeping me busy with e mails. *ahem:

Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


7 posted 08-18-2010 07:10 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I didn't notice until today, as well, serenity. I've been busy with life, and functions, and suddenly, I saw...and thought...wow!

But I wonder how it will regain transference into the Open Forum when someone writes of a topical subject and maybe have the critique button on. I don't recall off hand the emergence of the Alley, but at the time, I do remember that it was a good thing.

But some folk always wear their hot buttons...so perhaps this change will be a good thing. We have seen forums emerge, and stop; much like the world itself. Volcanoes = eruptions = islands = destruction [after time...thinking calderas here] but then again I was never a strong point myself in the Alley...but I had learned a lot...not only about the topics themselves, but the voices behind them.

JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 08-18-2010 08:39 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

“But I wonder how it will regain transference into the Open Forum when someone writes of a topical subject and maybe have the critique button on.” - Sunshine

Good point, Sunshine. There are several (including myself) who have posted political/topical pieces in the prose and poetry forums and most likely will again.

And think I know what you mean about learning about the voices behind the topics. Honestly, sometimes more revealing than facts in the posts.
JenniferMaxwell
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9 posted 08-21-2010 04:50 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Re-reading the thread and wondering. If the Alley was, as stated in post #3,  a “distraction”, “causing hard feelings”, etc., then why did certain forum mods and admins keep the Alley flaming by originating numerous threads, firing up the troops with those “hot button” topics?

Amaryllis
Senior Member
since 05-20-2010
Posts 1325
Mi now


10 posted 08-21-2010 09:30 PM       View Profile for Amaryllis   Email Amaryllis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Amaryllis

I found the Alley intimidating. But that`s only because I am not widely knowledgable concerning the intricacies of politics.  I have my opinions, stances, values, etc. of course.. yet I`d be hard pressed to  be able to continually back up my words with links, references, etc., so I never joined in.  I did enjoy perusing it, now and then, though... because I invariably learned something new (to me) each time.  Although the participants surely felt any number of heated emotions, imo it was generally mature and  under control in there, especially as compared to an all-out `flame war` one might find elsewhere on  web forums. It never descended into profanity, name-calling, character assassination,  etc.
.
But no, it hasn`t anything to do with poetry... (poetry being MY reason, anyway, for being here at PiP!)  
.
So I won`t miss it.. I mainly hang out on the open poetry forum.. (ahh, I do love me some poetry!)  
.
Best to everyone~
Amaryllis
JenniferMaxwell
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11 posted 08-22-2010 12:34 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Good points for discussion, Amaryllis, thank you!

Some posted in the Alley and others just read there, and yes, generally most of posts in the conversations, even the heated ones, fell well within the site rules/guidelines. And, to the best of my recollection, no Alley or PiP newcomer or person with thinner skin, presenting as more fragile or vulnerable was ever treated rudely by the “regulars”.  Those who got the barbs and stings were the old war horses, those with the thickest hides, all well versed and experienced in defensive as well as offensive maneuvers.  

Though many of the recent posts were political in nature, the Alley was not a political forum. You could start a thread on any topic you wished to discuss. You're fairly new to the site so quite possibly you never had a chance to read the threads that did indeed cover topics such as poetry, literature and life issues which are, as you know, the ink for a poet's pen.

There were some really insightful and in depth discussions, as well as "just need to get it off my chest" rants and vents. Though I do have an interest in national and world events, I'm also, and perhaps even more so, interested in learning about people, how they think, feel, react and communicate. Isn't that also part of any poet's basic toolbox, things he or she needs to know about in order to write a meaningful poem? And personally, I would also include in that toolbox, a good basic knowledge of what's happening in the world today. Therefore, it’s my opinion, discussions such as those in the Alley, are every bit as valid on a poetry site as the poems.

Deleting all the posts, all the threads going back years, smacks of collective punishment, or throwing the baby out with the bath water. And why? Was it because the task of moderating a very active forum, and by its very nature a potentially highly volatile one, was delegated to one person? Surely an impossible task! Was it because the moderator was inconsistent, random, simply not available at times, or grew weary of the job and the Alley posters, not "a few bad apples", but rather, members of the circle of "Family and Friends"?

As a person who's main interest is poetry, it may break your heart to learn that PiP at one time had an amazing Critical Analysis forum that was also abruptly shut down, and I would suggest for pretty much the same reasons as stated in the paragraph above. Though the poems, critiques/suggestions that helped many improve their writing skills are still available in the Archives, many/most of those who so generously gave of their time to help others improve their poetry, have left the site. And now, agreeing with Ess, yet another loss for the site and for all of us. A terrible and unnecessary loss.

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


12 posted 08-22-2010 03:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"Be kind to me, judge", said the boy who killed his parents. "After all, I'm an orphan!"

There were more unheeded warnings than one could count. The Alley got what it deserved....and so did we.
JenniferMaxwell
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13 posted 08-22-2010 05:41 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Think I read just about all the posts in the Alley except I may have missed a few around Christmas, the beginning of the year, for about a three week period during that time, and I don’t recall ever seeing any notification or warning that all the Alley posts and threads would be deleted.

[Personal attack removed (for pretty much the last time) - Ron]

[This message has been edited by Ron (08-22-2010 07:12 PM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


14 posted 08-22-2010 07:12 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I don’t recall ever seeing any notification or warning that all the Alley posts and threads would be deleted.

When you drive down the street, Jennifer, and see a speed limit sign, do you expect to see another sign just below it detailing precisely the fine you will be expected to pay when you get caught exceeding the limit?

I haven't posted to correct the assumptions being made, nor have I bothered to point out the errors being spouted like they were truths, because, honestly, it's not my job to keep people from looking like fools. I'm only posting now because, frankly, Jennifer, I grow tired of your childish hypocrisy. You knew damn well the Alley was in danger of being closed and, in my opinion, you went out of your way to make it inevitable. You, more than any other single person, are responsible for what happened. And when you got your wish? You immediately posted your Happy Dance in the VM forum. And I immediately removed it for the poor taste it typified.

No, you weren't banned, Jennifer. You weren't banned because, to be fair, I would have had to ban a lot of other people who were equally guilty. This isn't the Alley, though. You want warnings? Consider this one just for you. Your contentious trolling will no longer be endured. You no longer have an Alley where you can try to get a rise out of people and that kind of behavior won't be allowed in the other forums.
moonbeam
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since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


15 posted 08-23-2010 06:55 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Ron

If you break the law by exceeding the speed limit you don't expect, in the next instant, the whole street to be obliterated by automatic fire and grenades from a mad cop intent on enforcing the LAW.

I know Jennifer can answer for herself, but from the reading I did in the Alley since mid last year she was no "worse or better" than the other lively participants.  

I think if you were honest with yourself, you'd admit that the reason you accuse her of being the mainly responsible for the Alley's demise, is because she was mainly responsible for constantly challenging the type of thinking that was destroying the diversity of PiP. She was becoming an annoying bump in the determined slide towards homogeneity.

I was going to say that she was doing you a favour Ron.  The last redoubt of interest in an otherwise bland blue sea (can you have a redoubt in the sea?).  But I guess you won't see it as a favour; I can see why tepid is less effort than boiling.

It's been, on and off, fun!  for 12 years.  

Think on; be well.

MB  

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


16 posted 08-23-2010 10:16 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
... but from the reading I did in the Alley since mid last year

Rob, if you had read anything in the Alley you wouldn't be foolish enough to pretend no warnings were issued and you certainly wouldn't question the diversity of our Members. You clearly don't have a clue.
moonbeam
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17 posted 08-23-2010 11:23 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Sorry Ron - I know and accept warnings were issued, and I know the Alley had diversity.  

The historic warnings don't imv excuse the lack of final announcement and explanation, but whatever ~sigh~. As for the latter issue, that was kind of my point - the demise of the Alley saw the demise of the site's last remaining vestige of diversity. But again, whatever.  And just for Karen .  
Juju
Member Elite
since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams


18 posted 08-23-2010 02:37 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I am sure I had been some-what of the problem at times, but I believe that nothing, but good will come from taking that down.

Now, I am all for the freedom of speech, but the problem with online forums, is that there are no consequences to name calling or rude behavior. In real life, there is consequences to hurting your neighbor's feelings, because you have to live with them.  

Sometimes, people like myself, get way to stressed out talking politics and take insults very personally. (I feel bad)

So I think this may make everyone happy.

But I don't know. It was a place I avoided for the last years and made limited posts.
It brought me more unhappiness than the satisfaction of my curiosity.

-Juju


  

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thoughts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


19 posted 08-29-2010 06:19 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Disappointing to see the Alley removed, completely, would be nice to have archival access.

But, I can understand Ron's point of view in closing it.  Anytime I didn't feel like putting up with the alley I could simply not go there.  Not so for Ron, unless he wanted to abandon the standards he set for the place.

Imagine every time you woke up in the morning having to go see if the children were behaving.

Still though, I think there were many worthwhile, thoughtful discussions that were unlike any others on the net.  They would be great to have as reference tools.
 
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