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Passions in Poetry

Question on the " Unbump feature"

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Marina
Member Elite
since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


0 posted 02-06-2001 07:45 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

Since placing my thoughts about the unbump feature in the Alley, I have noticed that this issue is obiviously on other members minds too.  I have read all the responses and I think there are more for the "old" means of bumping your poetry then the "new" way.

I guess my question at this time would be, what, if anything can or will be done about this?
I understand that this may not be as easy as I am thinking, depending on the software but...


1.  Can we vote?

2. Is it possible to to have it both ways?  ( using a yes or no box to be clicked at each post)

3.  A whole new forum with this feature.


****  I am by no means a software genuis, so I'm  aware that none of these ideas may be possible. ****


Just wanted to throw it out and see what we get.

Marina
Marina
Member Elite
since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


1 posted 02-06-2001 09:48 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

Ron,

In light of reading your "Bear with Me" post, I understand that this may not be high on your priority listings right now.  I know how difficult a move, such as the one we have just been through can be. No doubt it comes with problems of its own.

This is an issue for me as well as other members.  However, with circumstances being as they are, I know the solution may not be coming soon.  So please know that you have my patience and understanding.  I am sure you will address this matter as soon as possible.

Thank you again,
Marina
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


2 posted 02-06-2001 10:03 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

The "rule of thumb" at Passions is really quite a simple one...  Ron writes the software.  He's reasonable, fair, and listens to everyone.... and he makes the ultimate choices... which are invariably the best ones for the majority....
Sven
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 11-23-1999
Posts 15611
Lansing, MI USA


3 posted 02-06-2001 10:57 PM       View Profile for Sven   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sven

Indeed this issue is on the minds of a lot of people. . . but I don't understand why. . .

The unbump feature is one of the best ideas to come along in a long time.  It lets a poet thank everyone while making sure that other people get a chance to be read as well.  It helps stop manipulation of the system by those who would continually BUMP their posts to the top and keeps it open for everyone.

I'm sure that we can't have it both ways.  And why would you want a whole forum dedicated to this?  What's wrong with putting a little effort into looking for your posts?  Certainly it's not a time-consuming thing. . . making youself part of your Private Library and using Today's Topics makes it easy and quick to find posts.  

The page feature lets you make the page as long as you want, thereby cutting down on page turns and mouse clicks. . . which probably makes it easier on your computer, the server, and your mouse. . .

I guess what I'm asking is why you're so opposed to this feature Marina??  When it's got so much going for it. . .

Thanks for listening. . . just my opinion. . .  

-----------------------------------------------------------


To the world, you may only be one person. But to one person, you may be the world.
Parker
Member Elite
since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


4 posted 02-07-2001 12:52 AM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

I have a question.... since when is the lack of a feature considered a feature now...  
So if I don't have a car I am un-cared...  
So let me get this straight, we have a new feature called the un-bump feature now, and this is now new and improved....

As I understand it the purpose of this new feature is to not bump our poems up so that they can be read, but in reality to bump them into oblivion after 3 or 4 posts.  

This may seem a little selfish but I like to have my poems read, and also be read by the regulars that seem to like my hacking type of poetry. I don't pump them out on a daily bases like some of the prolific writers here. So I like them to come back up on occasion to be noticed by the regulars that may have missed them at other times.

Sven, I don't think Marina is the only one that liked the old bumping process, so why pick on her.

Your comments about the use of a page feature making it easier on the computer or the user is not realistic.
Setting a large page size is just going to be annoying to allot of people that use a normal telephone line connect.
I visit passions with three connection methods...
Through my cable at home...
Through my LAN at work....
And a regular phone line connection when my
Brother is hogging the cable machine.
My cable is the fastest most of the time and a large page size loads fairly fast.
My work is slower and loads about 5 times as long.
My normal phone line connection on my faster computer just loads and loads and loads forever.

On a slower connection people are apt to use a small page size unless they have a lot of patience to wait.

But yes on cable, it loads great, but not everybody has cable!

Anyway, why Marina supports the old process is the same reason the other people support it. She is just speaking out for those silent voices.

One of the reasons I found Passions better then those other sites was because of that feature. Where as the other sites your poetry just got buried right away.

Lets face it poems cycle down no matter what, if we really want to make everything equal…. Then
Why not diss-allow all bumping, even from other poets replying.
I don’t need my poem to go to the top when a poet replies just so I know about it. As you know the system notifies
You by email… and if you use a messenger service it then pops up on your screen…..**TaDa I’m read**
Eliminating bumping by replies will even make it less congested on page one. And if that is what we need then do that too. The bumping process by the other poets is causing more congestion then the bumping by the author, since the author will reply less then the other poets. (Unless she/he gets one in between every other poet…not realistic)
Also we should eliminate multiple posts per day by a single poet, this will also cut down on congestion and keep page one moving at a fairly slow pace…
You’re a fairly prolific writer Sven, don’t you think your using up a little too much bandwidth and causing page one a little too much congestion… taking away from all the other poets by all your posts!
Believe me I would not want you restricted, Sven. in this or any other way (except maybe in picking on Marina)
Anyway all the women would be disappointed if they couldn’t read all your romantic stuff.  

There are so many great features at Passions the makes it better then the other sites, and I believe the cycling of your poem back to the top is one of those great features…  

If the fact that some may have abused this process is why the author bump was removed, just eliminate double bumping by the author….
Meaning…. If I was the last to reply to my poem and it got bumped, then if I replied two hours later it wont get bumped, because I was the last reply before my current reply. You have to wait till somebody else responds and then
Your reply will bump it. This forces abusers to say their thank you to all the replies before in one grouping…. Thus
Cutting down on author bumps considerably….

Of course there will still be abusers that use an alias to bump, but that is true today too. So the world still isn’t perfect  …

Anyway, I’d like to state that I love the new features and stuff…… but please bring back the author bump.

I’m done….  

Parker
Jesse Jaymz
Senior Member
since 01-24-2000
Posts 757
Youngstown, ohio


5 posted 02-07-2001 01:29 AM       View Profile for Jesse Jaymz   Email Jesse Jaymz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jesse Jaymz's Home Page   View IP for Jesse Jaymz

i agree with Marina and parker.  i have one sssllllllooooowwwwwwwwwwww computer.  i cant even run windows 98 its that slow.  i am poor what can i say.     but i agree that we should have a little box or something that lets us chose.  dont get me wrong, i love the new forums and i know that it is hard for ron to do all of this and i respect him for that.  but i really liked that feature.  like the great dennis miller says, thats just my opinion i could be wrong.  thanks for putting up with my rants.  
rock on yall
jesse


True beauty is often hidden in darkness...
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


6 posted 02-07-2001 09:51 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Haleyja, making someone wait for another reply is not the problem. I know some out there were having one reply, then bumping, get another reply, and reply again to bump.
In short, they 'thanked' each person that replied to their poem, directly after they replied to it. So the author of that poem had every other reply. One it's deceiving to the rest of us that show so many replies, and 1/2 of those replies are the poets own.

And for the majority of the rest of us, we would always wait for at least 3 or more replies, before we said anything.

Some people don't want to reply, for the fact that it will bump up there poem. And I agree, that it takes away from giving others time to be the top on the board.

Replying to our own posts is what allows us to get to know others, and we can still do that. We just don't bump it back to the top.

There have been other features implemented, like the library, where you can store a post if you wish to see the replies posted.

We all like to see our poem on the top, but stop and think just for a moment how many posters we have alone in Open. And a LOT of the newer people are getting drowned out because of poets being able to "bump" their own posts back to the top constantly.

I've seen many, many posts sink to the bottom with not so much as a reply to them, because so many are more concerned about theirs being on top all the time. I would think that is a bit unfair to the others.

I for one quit posting in Open a while back, because I was constantly buried. (so I do know what you mean)...having to bump your poem back to the top to have it read. But, that is something I DO not like to do.

In all seriousness, I think this was a fair thing to do for everyone. I also connect by phone, and I have mine set on 50 posts per page. It loads fairly quickly unless of course I have a bad connection.


[This message has been edited by WhtDove (edited 02-07-2001).]
Parker
Member Elite
since 01-06-2000
Posts 3135
... the old black rum


7 posted 02-07-2001 11:56 AM       View Profile for Parker   Email Parker   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Parker's Home Page   View IP for Parker

WhtDove, I understand that some poets reply after each post.. but they must be just waiting for a reply and they must be a minor exception to the problem.

In reality if you read my comments up above, if bumping is truly a serious problem then it should be eliminated completely. The larger percentage of replies that cause bumps are caused by other authors replying to your poem. If you go through the poems and do an average, you'll see most replies are by other poets and not the author. So the real problem is other poets bumping and causing page one to rush by.
Eliminate all bumping, eliminate multiple poem posts in one forum by a single author per day if you really want to be fair to the new poets and or the new posts.
Also bumping is not just to get the repliers notice that you replied back. Its used to get read, isn't that why we post. I doubt that everybody that replies to my stuff has me tagged in their library. I don't tag everybody either that I like. If I see a poem by them then I reply to them. I like to hang out in the first 3 pages looking for familiar names and new and interesting titles from new poets.
You don’t like to reply to your own because it bumps up your poem. But, if you reply to other poems it bumps theirs up, also causing the problem of pushing down others, and more so then you bumping up
Your own poem. In this case, maybe we shouldn’t reply to our favorite poets just the new names that
Will really help the new poets.
If you post in another forum of Passions because your poem gets buried, Then your doing it because you want to get read. That’s why we are here, otherwise most of us would have our poetry in notepads lost somewhere at home.

Other options:
- Don’t allow an authors reply to self-bump unless its down a certain distance, or even
  beyond the maximum page size of 200 posts.
- Just one bump per day, whether its by the author or another poet replying.
- Have a maximum poem per author per forum per day… (this may get the other forums more active)
- have an automatic bump feature for poems with very little replies if they pass the 200 post limit
- or automatic bump for new authors that don’t have too many replies.
- Have a limit on the auto feature to 1 or 2 or 3 bumps
Another option, and this may be a little crazy…. Just randomize the posts in the forums, no order
That’ll sure mix things up allot. No bumping at all just randomize posts. If you want to keep track of
Poets or poems use your library option… nothing could be more fair then that.


I currently run a computerized Voice Ad Telephone meeting service in Canada. I have many categories,
And some are very large like Open … Without the members re-recording their ad’s to move them to the
Front or the auto feature I programmed in, they to would have ended up in oblivion. They wouldn’t have
Gotten many replies, they wouldn’t have met the love or lust of their life, they wouldn’t have paid me,
My service would have gone under. Many services like mine have giant categories, a one for all sort of thing but the smaller categories work better. But in these large services, it’s the ad’s at the front that get most of the attention.
Lets face it, we are programmed to look at the front person, to notice the brightest star first, and to find
The poems on page one. Sure we’ll dig when we don’t find what we want but we always start at page one.
Page one is where its at if you want to be read, not oblivion.

Anyway this is my opinion on the subject. Love me, hate me, but do please read me, whatever comes of
This…. I will always love this place… and do understand and appreciate all the hard work Ron puts into
It to make it great.


Parker
Mother_Earth
Senior Member
since 11-20-2000
Posts 1387
1/2 year Texas & 1/2 year Mich


8 posted 02-07-2001 03:24 PM       View Profile for Mother_Earth   Email Mother_Earth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mother_Earth

Oh, boy, I guess I am guilty of "bumping" but didn't know what it was.  Sorry, but when I was up late and nothing to do, I surf-ed the poem sites and when a reply came in, I answered.  Is it the right way to only answer once, to all, if possible?  I don't know all of the rules and want to do things right.  Gosh, I just crumbled all of my cookies and didn't even know I had any cookies!! I'm old, what do you expect!  Sorry,ME
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


9 posted 02-07-2001 04:40 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, I, for one, like the un-bump, for since I don't often respond to my own to keep it 'alive', I often experience the well known Passionate Plummet. Hmmm...come to think of it, that even happened when I did reply to my own stuff....guess I'm just not as talkitive or social as some of the others.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


10 posted 02-07-2001 04:42 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

ME, it's Members like you who are exactly why the new unbump feature was implemented. You just keep right on replying, as often as you like, and rest easy knowing that thanking people will never be against the rules here.

You might, however, still have to get a fresh batch of cookies every now and then.  
Marina
Member Elite
since 02-10-2000
Posts 2267
Pickering, Ontario


11 posted 02-07-2001 06:45 PM       View Profile for Marina   Email Marina   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marina

I placed my questions in this forum because that is what they are... QUESTIONS.
I didn't place them here for a debate.  Sven see my response in the Alley.

Marina

 
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