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Passions in Poetry

Frustrations....

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Gentle Spirit
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since 10-09-2000
Posts 14329


0 posted 11-01-2000 07:05 PM       View Profile for Gentle Spirit   Email Gentle Spirit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Gentle Spirit

Some of you are already aware that I have been having problems with my browser allowing me to see posts right away.  A few of you (thank you very much) have given me some suggestions, but to no avail have they worked.   I have checked my cookies, settings, even downloaded the latest version of explorer.....and still it is often hours or even the next day before I can see new posts.
Does anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks all!!

On the wings of words our spirits fly, and our souls are free.

SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
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Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


1 posted 11-01-2000 07:10 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I'm sorry you are having fustrations...ugh....I am too..........I don't know what could be wrong....my only sugestion is to hit the refresh  or reload key on the screen.......I am totally computer stupid.......sorry I can't help more than that...maybe a help center for your brand of computer or  with your browser? Not sure.....Good luck!   -SEA
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


2 posted 11-01-2000 07:22 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Do you have similar problems with other sites? Are they slow loading? What is your modem speed? Do you have a local ISP or do you use AOL? Maybe we can track down this problem..it would drive me crazy!!! Hang in there.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 11-01-2000 08:14 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

All about Caching

Caching is simply geek talk for saving something you suspect you'll use again later. When you visit a web page on the Internet, there is a statistically excellent chance you will visit that same exact web page in the near future. Knowing this, your browser saves a copy of the page on your local hard disk and, when it detects you returning to the page, it gives you the local copy instead of asking a web server for the remote copy. Since your hard disk is substantially faster than even the fastest modem line, it makes a lot of sense. In fact, were it not for local caching - if every single web page had to be sent across the wires every single time it were requested - the Internet would quickly bog down and become unusable. So caching is a "good thing."

Unfortunately for us, the forums are a dynamic environment, where caching can quickly turn into a bad thing when everyone involved doesn't follow the rules. Rules? You mean there are rules to this sort of thing? Hey, I'm glad you asked!

Rule #1 - if the web page you visit ends in certain extensions, it should never be cached. In our case, that extension is .cgi and that's why when you visit the main page or a forum index page (all of which are cgi programs), you should see the reply count going up or the post you just replied to being moved to the top of the page. All Internet processes recognize that cgi pages are dynamic and shouldn't be cached, so you should always see the freshest view. Unfortunately, that's not true of .html pages, which are where we store the actual posts.

Rule #2 - if you look at the source for one of our html files, very near the top you'll see a line that says META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache". This is our server's way of telling the rest of the Internet world that this page SHOULD NOT BE CACHED. It's a warning that the content is dynamic and will change. Sadly, this is the "rule" that not everyone seems to be following. Ceres warns them, but is ignored, and you see a cached web page instead of the one sitting on our server.

We do, fortunately, have some control over what our browser does. It's slightly different for every one of the many browsers, but I'll give you some clues. In Netscape 4.61, for example, you go to the menu and select Edit and then Preferences. In the little popup window, click on the "+" sign next to "Advanced" and when it opens its hierarchy list, click on "Cache." The right hand side of the popup will change and you'll see an option telling Netscape when it should compare the network document with the cached document. The options are "once per session," "every time," or "never." You want to select "every time." In Internet Explorer 5.5 (the latest version), from the menu, you go to "Tools" and then "Internet Options." You'll see tabs at the top of the popup window and you should click on the "General" tab (you're probably already there). In the section where it says "Temporary Internet Files" click on the "Settings" button. You will again see the same three options (worded a bit differently), and you want to select "Every visit to the page" as your setting. In some browsers, after you click the OK button, you'll still have to close and then reopen your browser for the new setting to become active.

These setting effectively turn off caching in your browser. The down-side is it turns it off across the entire Internet, and not just our forums. Depending on the type of web sites you typically visit, you many have just substantially slowed down your Internet experience. The up-side, of course, is that you should now see dynamic pages refreshed, uh, dynamically.

Before we leave the topic of browsers, I want to mention one more thing. Many of you have mentioned clicking the "Reload" button in Netscape or the "Refresh" button in IE. Clicking these buttons, alone, does nothing more than reload the page out of your local cache. I suspect that's why many of you are finding them less than useful.

To force Netscape to ask our server for a fresh copy of a page, you should hold down the SHIFT key while you click on the "Reload" button.

To force Internet Explorer to ask for a fresh copy of a page, you need to hold down the CTRL key while clicking on the "Refresh" button (and please don't ask our browsers for something so simple as consistency).

I've listed those steps separately because they're important for our next discussion into the wonderful world of the Internet. If you are on a page you know is wrong (probably because you just posted a reply and it ain't there), and you cannot force the browser to reload it using one of the procedure above, then your caching problem is probably not being caused by your browser. Er, you mean someone else might be caching the page, Ron?

Yep. No one has a direct connection between their computer and our server, but rather is being routed through their ISP's computer (probably several of them, but let's keep it simple). When you request a page from Ceres, your request goes from your browser, to your ISP, and only then goes to Ceres. Some ISP's have come up with this great idea to intercept your requests and automatically simplify your life by - you guessed it - giving you back a cached copy of the page you just requested.

Two ISP's that are infamous for this are AOL and Mindspring, but many others are following suit. Why? Because it saves them money. In spite of rumors to the contrary, the Internet isn't really free. Bandwidth, those pipes we're all using to send our bits and bytes around the world, costs money. And many of the larger ISP's are realizing that disk space for caching is cheaper than bandwidth. So when you go to a web page they consider static, they save the page on their server (it's going through their computer any way, right?) and, when you go there again, they give you that copy instead of asking Ceres for a fresh copy.

AOL actually does a pretty darn good job. With over 20 million users, they've had a lot of experience and, over the years, have fine-tuned their caching to work fairly well. Many of the new-comers, however, have been far less successful.

The bad news, unfortunately, is really bad. You have absolutely no control over the process. There are no settings in your browser, no short-cut keys to load fresh pages, no digital tricks to convince your ISP to again ask Ceres for a fresh page. The only choice you have is to wait. Because disk space is still limited, most ISP's cache visited pages only for a short time. When their cache times out, you will again have access to the "real" pages on Ceres. Your other alternative, of course, is to find a new ISP - one that doesn't cache.

SUMMARY:

1. Try changing the setting in your browser to "never" cache a page
2. Try Shift/Refresh or Ctrl/Reload to bybass your browser's cache
3. Yell at your ISP
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
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Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


4 posted 11-01-2000 11:12 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Ron~ Master of all things computer.......I bow to your knowledge........and now feel even more computer stupid   -SEA
Gentle Spirit
Member Laureate
since 10-09-2000
Posts 14329


5 posted 11-02-2000 05:42 AM       View Profile for Gentle Spirit   Email Gentle Spirit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Gentle Spirit

Thanks everyone!  Ron, I have those settings in my broswer selected already.  I didn't know the little trick with refreshing, and will try it and see if it works.  If not, I will get back to you asap.  Thanks much!!  Hopefully this will end the frustrations.  The main page will show me there have been replys, it just won't show it to me when I click on the poem itself.  Here's hoping this works!!  (and thanks again.)
Gentle Spirit
Member Laureate
since 10-09-2000
Posts 14329


6 posted 11-02-2000 08:07 PM       View Profile for Gentle Spirit   Email Gentle Spirit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Gentle Spirit

Just a quick update, yes I have all those settings, yes I tried the shift key and control key.......and NO it didn't work.  
The frustrations are strong, I enjoy this place so much.......but darn ........makes me wanna scream!!  Thanks for you help all!!
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


7 posted 11-02-2000 10:11 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well Gentle Spirit, you could try one more little 'trick'. F5. That key is also known as 'hard refresh'. However, this is for Windows...not sure if it works on Macs or not. I'm sure Doreen could give a hint on that end.

So, if you're using Windows, try hitting the F5 key located on the top row of your keyboard next time...who knows, it might work.  

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 11-02-2000).]
Gentle Spirit
Member Laureate
since 10-09-2000
Posts 14329


8 posted 11-03-2000 05:31 AM       View Profile for Gentle Spirit   Email Gentle Spirit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Gentle Spirit

Thanks Alleycat!  I will indeed try that, at this point I think I'd even try standing on my head!!  lol......thanks alot.  
Dopey Dope
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Moderator
Member Laureate
since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


9 posted 11-04-2000 02:17 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Throw your computer into a pool......that should do the trick.



"I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust."

I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them!
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


10 posted 11-05-2000 09:19 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Clear you temp files as Ron said above, then...

Got to your Windows directory on what will probably be your c drive....locate the sub-directory called History, this is stored according to your preferences and how many days you want stored, locate each day and delete the entry for Netpoets (PiP (Passions in Poetry)), it should be stored as a sub folder holding all the entries for each forum you read....just delete the relevant sub-folder.  Go back to PIP, you may need to press F5 (refresh a couple of times to clear the pages in memory but should work effectively....

If that doesn't work, post again and I'll leave more explicit instructions on safely deleting your history folder so that it will be rebuilt...please ensure you delete only the relevant folders pertaining to PIP.


Nice one again Ron...  




[This message has been edited by RainbowGirl (edited 11-05-2000).]
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