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Passions in Poetry

Ya Don't Know How Ya Look Till Ya Had Your Picture Took!

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Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


0 posted 01-08-2000 03:16 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Ron or Nan
     I've been flooded with emails on why I took off my photo....I don't know why ya removed it, and honestly, it doesn't matter a whole hell of alot to me..but, It does look better than LongJohn's or Balladeer's?...It's one of the few things I've posted next to my name that wasn't nasty?....Just for the heck of it though, I would be interested in knowing why it was removed, and, as I said above, it's not a big deal to me.....and was really just silly to bring a "laugh" to some....but if it was offensive to any, or yourself, please let me know will ya? I hope I haven't offended anyone with it, (of course yanno I don't give a damn if I offend LongJohn or Balladeer, and I think the feeling's mutual), but if I did, really,....okay, I don't care if I offended you either but would worry about it for a minute or two?.....thanks....
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


1 posted 01-08-2000 04:43 PM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

I'm sure it surprises absolutely no one that I loved that picture of Toerag! *G* But even though I haven't read those emails he's getting, I can tell from the responses posted on open that I'm not alone in wondering why it would be removed and wishing it hadn't been removed...

I read on The Alley some comments Ron had made about not allowing graphics. But this was a photograph. And I can understand his reluctance to throw the door wide open to anything and everything... however, one of his comments was that the whole purpose was to see what we really look like. Can you honestly imagine a more realistic depiction of a Toerag? *G*

It was silly, it was fun, it gave a lot of smiles... and I simply can't imagine it giving offense to anyone. So why did it disappear?
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


2 posted 01-08-2000 04:45 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Not offensive at all, Toe. I've even go so far as to say it was a darn good, well-lit, nicely composed photo. Okay, a bit risque perhaps, but I was impressed with the way you cut it off before showing too much...

However, as cute as it was, it wasn't what we had in mind when the Member photo option was added. Take a look at this thread:

http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/000121.html

Still, while the photo isn't something that needs to be added to every post you make, it certain deserves to be seen.  



Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


3 posted 01-08-2000 05:58 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

I was going to say, Toe, you write remarkably for a foot...wow...imagine what you could achieve with a whole body!
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


4 posted 01-09-2000 04:40 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

Ron: That thread is the one I referred to in my response. After re-reading it, my comments stand. And at the risk of being totally obnoxious, I think the picture removal was arbitrary and disrespectful of those who enjoyed it. It isn't often something aggravates me enough to have me wide awake at 3 am... this did.

But your response does bring up a question... Why is it necessary to see ANY photo with every single post? They might all deserve to be seen, but wouldn't this thing load faster if they resided in the profile so that someone had to click to see a photo that interested them rather than it load with every single post they make?

I'm now convinced that I'll put my photo up a few days after hell freezes over. For my Olan Mills "glamour" pictures may be "darn good, well-lit, nicely composed" and be real cute, but they certainly don't look at all like the way I do as I write, go to work, read poems, live life...
Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


5 posted 01-09-2000 09:01 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Hey Toe - Can we see your smiling face? We can always wrap you in a turban or something - Whatcha think???
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


6 posted 01-09-2000 09:33 AM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Trust you!!!...Bet that's one you took yourself cause where on earth could you find a pic of a toe with a rag round it...oh my!!

Super pic, made me grin..

HUSG

 Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


7 posted 01-09-2000 01:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
That thread is the one I referred to in my response. After re-reading it, my comments stand. And at the risk of being totally obnoxious, I think the picture removal was arbitrary and disrespectful of those who enjoyed it. It isn't often something aggravates me enough to have me wide awake at 3 am... this did.


I'm sorry you feel that way, suthern. The removal of the picture wasn't meant to be disrespectful and the only arbitrary thing about it was the rule itself. It's a bit difficult, in my mind, to justify one humorous picture without also allowing the naked buttocks, the baby pictures, the drawing of a half-empty martini glass, ad nauseum. My original thought was it would be nice to "see" the poet, much as it's nice to look a person in the eye when we talk to them in person. I felt it worth the added cost, to you in load time, to me in bandwidth. I'm finding, however, it's not worth the cost in aggravation.

The photos that have been uploaded will remain, at least as long as the individuals want them to remain. But there is no longer an option on the Profiles page to upload additional photos.
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


8 posted 01-09-2000 08:38 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Ron: At the risk of being a tad brusque, isn't that taking it a little far?

I named Toe and I thought it was hilarious to see a pic of a toe with a rag round it, ok, so I have a warped sense of humour and I was also involved in the champagne mousey which someone substituted for my pic, being clever enough to know my mind and password) but surely laughter is as much a part of a person's persona as their image per se?

Maybe I'm missing the point here and I do understand what you're saying about costs vs practicality and bandwidth...but how many have been disobedient?

HUGS

 Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn.

DreamEvil
Member Elite
since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


9 posted 01-09-2000 08:45 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Suthern you are quite correct in that perhaps photos be added only to the profile page, however you are wrong in that any violation of the rules must be enforced regardless of who it is that breaks them. While humorous it is not a depiction of Toerag anymore than a photo of the Long John Silver's restaurant chain would be a photo of LngJhnAg.

I wonder if perhaps this issue was born of your natural protectiveness for a friend and not for any lack in understanding of the rules. Letter and spirit must be followed or the letter of it must be changed to reflect the spirit of it.

I state so because Ron reposted the photo above and made a very concilliatory statement citing the rules and acknowledging the value of the photograph, yet still did you pursue it with vehemence.

I apologize if my interpretation is incorrect, but I believe that a depiction of the poet is intended to mean the face.


 Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilŠ
-------------------------------------------------------
"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

Count Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade
(Marquis de Sade)


RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


10 posted 01-09-2000 09:08 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Ok, I'm in wind up mood so a little lattitude here...

Dream: You have the nerve of a snake...*sigh*

This is all about pleasure and pain, misery, light and darkness surely?

How can a picture that depicts a character's name end up causing such a problem geesh!!!

I'm honestly stuck for words: Of course the photo depicts Toe...ROFL how could it not, is it not a pic of a toe with a rag round it??   Much like if you posted one of a pillow with horns, that surely would depict you?...We are all characters in a play, some choose their own names, others assume a disguise....I give up, this is supposed to be fun, real, true...and Toe is a TOERAG!!! I guarantee it...LOL but one with a hell of a lot of heart!

I'm going to climb into insanity now and leave behind realism for those who dream..

 Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


11 posted 01-10-2000 12:12 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

On occasion, I've been accused of being long-winded. This was probably the first post I've made in six months that was less than a page and half long, and now I'm paying for it.  

RG, and suthern, too, I apologize for making it sound like my decision was the result of this specific issue. That's not the case. The aggravation I mentioned wasn't from Toe's picture, nor suthern's comments, nor even from all the other pictures I've removed in the past two months. The aggravation, rather, is a combination of all the many things that have gone wrong since I tried to make this a part of the forums.

The original idea was simple enough: The program I wrote was supposed to automate the procedure and make it possible for you to upload the photos. I wrote a short paragraph on what pictures were expected, what graphics formats would work, and what dimensions the pictures should be. I suspected not everyone would know how to crop and size the pictures, but I was fully prepared to help where it was necessary. What happened, however, is that virtually every single picture that was uploaded required my attention. Only one or two came in with the needed dimensions, and even those needed further compression to make the file size manageable. Some Members uploaded fairly large bmp files (where they get the patience for those long uploads I don't know), and a few even sent us HTML files. Some would upload group shots, and I can only hope I cropped them to the right face. I received one photo that had a copyright on it from a fairly well known magazine. Every day seemed to bring new surprises. And, unfortunately, when a picture didn't work, it required more than simply deleting it. I also had to track down who it belonged to, find their Profile record, and delete the pointer to the photo - else we had pages with broken images (which we often had any way).

Even then, the photos that did work made all the effort worth it. Except I forgot a very simple fact of human nature: Few of us remain satisfied with anything for long. The photos that did work didn't work for long. People would change them, uploading new ones. And I'd start it all over again. And if it wasn't a new picture, sometimes it was the same old picture. One of our dearest, most valued Member would upload the same wrong-dimensioned, too-big file every morning. And because she's such a sweet and wonderful person, I didn't have the guts to tell her to knock it off - so I'd crop it and compress it every evening.

The sad truth, my friends, is that I'm a wimp. I don't like telling my friends they're doing something wrong. I don't like telling people they can't do something they obviously want to do. I don't like being the bad guy.

I want to emphasize - and I can't emphasize it enough - that I'm not blaming anyone for this failure. Sometimes I get a little too enthusiastic and don't think things through clearly enough. This was one of those instances. (I still don't believe it never occurred to me people would want to change their photos. I can so stupid!)

I also want to emphasize this is not the end of the story. I still think the photos are a great thing. I just need to make it workable with a more robust and easy to use program. One that will check to insure the right file type is sent. One that will allow images only of a manageable size. One that includes instructions, maybe even tutorials, on web-workable graphics. One that allows the user to preview their photo before making it a part of their Profile. One that allows me or a Moderator to communicate with people on those pictures that don't work. In short, one that doesn't cost me two hours of time every day and three pounds of aggravation. But we will have photos again. Because I'm not only long-winded, I'm also a bit stubborn.
Skyfyre
Senior Member
since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


12 posted 01-10-2000 12:18 AM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

I just know that everyone has been waiting for me to reply to this, since I also have a "non-photo" up on my posts ...

Personally, I missed Toe's photo when it was up, but I think it's pretty cute now that I've seen it LOL.  However, this is Ron's site and whatever he says goes ... I can understand where he's coming from with the faces, and he HAS given us all of those neat little icons to put on our posts as well.  

I was very disappointed to hear that no one else will be allowed to post photos -- will you remove that option completely, Ron, or just come up with some way to screen them before they go up?  

Anyway, if the photos are allowed back, I'd be glad to do a portrait of you if you don't like pictures Toerag!  

--Kess


 You cannot choose the way of your death, but the path you choose will determine its own end.

Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


13 posted 01-10-2000 12:25 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Ron, you're too patient with us not wishy washy! Kindness is a virtue, sir!  
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


14 posted 01-10-2000 12:33 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Don't know what to say really!  You are very patient with us Ron!  Toe, your a good looking guy why won't you post your photo?

 <*\\\><
Where there is faith,
there is love.
Where there is love,
there is peace.
Where there is peace,
there is GOD.
Where there is GOD,
there is no need.

Hallmark


suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


15 posted 01-10-2000 07:03 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

Ron: I appreciate the "long-winded" explanation.... and apologize sincerely for making it necessary. *G* But to be truthful, one of the reasons for what DE considers my vehement pursuit of the topic is that I read your first response as sarcastic, not conciliatory... and I don't react well to sarcasm. But I really didn't want to cause (or be blamed for) the disappearance of the option to have a photo.

To answer his accusation that I wouldn't care unless this involved a friend... I can only plead guilty. I wouldn't have NOTICED if this hadn't involved a friend! I have a dinosaur excuse of a computer and cannot access the forum from home AT ALL unless I turn all graphics off and then click on any picture I actually want to open... which is why I suggested that the photos be left in the profiles rather than loaded with each poem... That's selfish, I'll admit. But is there anyone out there that can honestly say they don't want their poetry reading to be as easy as possible?

And the arbitrary comment was due to the fact that the photo was removed with no email notification, leaving everyone wondering why a picture that had brought so many smiles had suddenly disappeared, not a reflection on how the forum as a whole is run!

Again Ron, I apologize for my contribution to your aggravation! *S*
Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


16 posted 01-10-2000 07:49 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

I really didn't mean to start another war by any means yall!!! I just wondered what happened to the pic?..It ain't no big deal....okay?....LOL.....I really don't want a photo of me with my posts, just thought this one was unique, but I'm sorry I started any controversy....Just think?...I could be walking into church someday, maybe just visiting a new one? Some guy could come walking up to me, and say something like: "Hey, you look familiar?"....Do you ever write poetry?"...Of course, my response would be "Heavens No, but I do like to pester people on a poetry board?"....Then the poor bastard would probably say something like; "Would you take your shoe and sock off for a moment?"....Then something like; "AHA! You're that damned Toerag that posts on PIP!" I knew it!" Now how many of you would want your identity associated with the crap I post?"...Hunh?...think about it?....Over the "net" is one thing....but in public?...I have kids yanno?....I could just imagine my little daughter at school, "You're daddy is the Toerag, Your daddy is the Toerag'.....wouldn't that be just awful? Of course with my son it wouldn't matter, he'd just say, "My daddy has a Toerag, from his foot being surgically removed from your daddy's ass! And in about one second, it's gonna be "like father like son for both of us...ya understand?".....



[This message has been edited by Toerag (edited 01-10-2000).]
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


17 posted 01-10-2000 08:04 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

Toe: Any war or controversy was my fault, not yours... and that wasn't my intention either!! But PDV is right... kindness is a virtue and I wasn't being very virtuous in my interpretation of the situation. *G* Again, my apologies.

And ROFL... you just don't want that legion of fans tracking you down and pushing me out of my place in your fan club line! LOL. And that's certainly okay by me!  

[This message has been edited by suthern (edited 01-10-2000).]
RainbowGirl
Member Elite
since 07-31-99
Posts 3167
United Kingdom


18 posted 01-10-2000 06:26 PM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Dream:  It would appear that I have offended you by calling you a snake but I thought you loved snakes so to me it was a way of being humourous.

My apologies if you think I have slandered you by calling you both a snake and pompous but from where I sit, this whole subject was based upon an incredibly funny and humourous photograph....OK, I'll be the first to admit that when things goes wrong for me, my humour gets worse and I smile more often than normal, because that is my way but I can assure you I am very affectionate, very warm hearted and would never dream of being cruel to anyone...so my apologies for assuming and for treating you like I do anyone else, which is slightly 'tongue in cheek'.  Futhermore, I believe I have shown you kindness and consideration in all of our communications until you decided this evening that my remark was slanderous...I can't apologise though for the way you read something...perhaps it would be better if I kept my smiles and my hugs to myself.

No hard feelings, hey sweetheart?

HUGS

 Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn.

Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


19 posted 01-11-2000 07:16 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

He is a snake! The most poisonous kind..ya hear his rattle, as he slitherly unwinds? His tongue whipping out, his eyes recessed in his head, that's shaped like a diamond, his venom he spreads....No slander from me, my dear friend DE....though I won't be the last, ta call ya an asp, but a snake ain't so bad, next time I'll call ya Toerag!
 
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