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Passions in Poetry

Let's bring it up one more time

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Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


0 posted 12-30-1999 11:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Tonight I received an e-mail from my good friend and mainstay poet of our group, Sy. For anyone who doesn't know Sy, he is one of the kindest, gentlest, most peaceful, uncontroversial people I know. His letter was a plea for me, or any of us, to please do something about the multiple postings. He wants to read the poetry and give comments but he simply cannot keep up, due to people coming in and dropping 4,5,6 or more poems at a time. If it brings someone like Sy to the point of mild complaint, I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way.
     I know this has been discussed before and some things have been tried, like e-mailing new members and asking them to refrain from the multiple posts, but we do not seem to have accomplished much.
     We need a solution. With the exception of having someone sitting there counting poems(and the job doesn't pay that much), I don't know how we can keep control of this, unless there is some sophisticated bit of programming that would do the trick.
     Plus, if we were to come up with some guidelines and, if people disregarded them, we exercised deletion rights, there are members always on the lookout for any criticism possible who would decry us as Nazi sympathisers.
     So what do we do? Help, please. Sy could use some help......me, too.
Poet deVine
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1 posted 12-30-1999 11:05 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

When a new member registers, an email is sent with the password..I wonder if a reminder in that email would be a good thing? Although I've seen members who've been here some time, post several in a row.. The guidelines ask that members do not post too many at a time..but do we know if they are reading the guidelines?  
Nan
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since 05-20-99
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Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


2 posted 12-30-1999 11:22 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

When a new member receives that initial email with their password, a note with some friendly advice is included.  Among other information, are these excerpts:
  
quote:
The very first thing a new member typically wants to do is post their poetry. After all, that's what Passions is all about and you've probably got quite a bit of it that we've never seen. And I assure you, we're all looking forward to it, too. But I'm afraid if you jump in and immediately post several poems back-to-back, you might be a little disappointed with the results.....

....Here's my advice. Comment on a number of poems first, maybe a half dozen or more. Everyone likes to see comments on their work. And, as they see your name, they'll start looking for YOUR poetry. Then post one of your poems, two at the most. I can practically guarantee you that you'll get more responses. Most of the members try to comment on two or three poems for every poem of their own they post.

So, these new folks are certainly getting the information... Now how to get everyone to heed it is the next "Conundrum", eh, Sy???    




[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 12-30-1999).]
Balladeer
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3 posted 12-30-1999 11:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you both for your responses. You have successfully described what is being done that is obviously not doing the trick. Does anyone have a suggestion that might work?
Denise
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since 08-22-99
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4 posted 12-30-1999 11:35 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I can relate to the frustration. Although I try to read and comment on all the poetry posted in Open as well as a couple others, I have found lately that I can't keep up. And I find also that I am missing many that have fallen to the farther back pages before I have a chance to see them. It does frustrate me to the point that I have turned off the computer early the last two nights. Although I don't think deleting a post is the way to go, initially, perhaps the time has come to move from 'suggestions' to 'rules' of a determined number per night and then follow the protocol when a rule is broken. Then if that doesn't work.....maybe deleting is the only way to go.    

 Denise

Poet deVine
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5 posted 12-30-1999 11:51 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

What if everyone only read ONE post in a multiple posting from a new member..and if the first reply doesn't mention the courtesy rule of no multiple posts, please feel free to mention it. They get the hint after a bit...  
Balladeer
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6 posted 12-31-1999 12:11 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Unrealistic, Sharon. We need to deal in realities here, something that might actually  work...and, seeing that even the inexhaustable computer of Denise is being retired early, it's worse than I thought!
DreamEvil
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since 06-22-99
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7 posted 12-31-1999 04:00 AM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Perhaps set a limit on the number of originating posts a new member may post per day and per forum?

It would give new members time to learn and observe how the system works before they are given free rein in posting.


 Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilİ
-------------------------------------------------------
"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

Count Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade
(Marquis de Sade)

hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA


8 posted 12-31-1999 07:12 AM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

I'm finding the same problem as Denise...I usually read everything and am having a terrible time keeping up with the sheer volume of postings. I have found myself getting so frustrated that I end up not reading as much as I might have read to begin with, as the situation seems hopeless some night. And when they post 5 or 6 in Critial Analysis at a time, it's even worse. In that case, I usually don't even attempt to read them. Brad and I have actually e-mailed members when they post like that in Critical Analysis asking them to respect the rules and please refrain from posting so much at one time to allow everyone a chance to have their poems looked at by others.
Having said that...she punishes herself for posting two poems in a row yesterday in Open 5... sorry...I won't do it again.
I'm not sure what the solution is Balladeer, but with over 2000 registered poets, I don't see this situation getting any better. I'd like to see everyone limited to one, or at the most, two poems a day. What strikes me the funniest...is the people that are doing the multi posting the most, are the ones who reply to others poetry the least. I can think of a few names I've seen right off the bat.
**Steps down off her soap box**
Nan
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9 posted 12-31-1999 09:06 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Ron has addressed this many times - and clearly says that he really doesn't want to put those kind of restraints on the boards. I'm not sure what will work - but Ruth - I don't think you should feel guilty about posting two poems.... Geesh......
Pepper
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Official Passions Reader
10 posted 12-31-1999 09:22 AM       View Profile for Pepper   Email Pepper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Pepper

I have to agree with Hoot and Denise. I've been overwhelmed with all the mutiple postings as of late. I too, get so frustrated at missing posts and not being able to keep up, that I haven't been visiting here as much as I used to....I just end up being TOO OVERWHELMED!!!!
I haven't a clue as to how you are going to resolve this....it seems like nothing that is in place now is working...
Thank you Balladeer for bringing this into the light again.....
Poet deVine
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11 posted 12-31-1999 09:54 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I don't feel I have reply to every poem. I do respond to every members first post though! If they post multiples, I only respond to their first one.

I also send each newbie their first post as an E-card (unless they don't show their email address)..I welcome them and...let them know gently that multiple posts in one day is discourteous...that they are less likely to be read! It also shows them that spelling and format are important...

Anyway..that's another 2 cents from me..  
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


12 posted 12-31-1999 10:32 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

As Nan says, every time this issue has arose my response has been a reluctance to add any restrictions. But, while I'll admit to being a bit stubborn, I assure you I'm not deaf. I hear you.

This has been a very busy week at the forums. With just a cursory glance, it appears that posts are hitting over 150 percent of normal, with quite a few new members as well. I'm sure that has made a difficult situation worse. But everyone is right about one thing - it's unlikely to get better. And suggestions and guidelines don't seem to help much.

I think I have a compromise that might work. Please let me know what you think of it...

Someone comes in and posts their first poem of the day in a particular forum. It posts same as it always has, moving to the top of the index page. Nothing new. They then post a second poem in the same forum on the same day. That poem (and all subsequent poems in that forum for that day) is posted with a date for the previous day. The result, of course, is that it will be listed behind all of the other posts for the current date.

As before, this places no restriction on the number of poems posted. It should, however, discourage the dickens out of it once people realize their posts are being buried right from the get-go. Appropriate warnings can be added to the submit form.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Denise
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13 posted 12-31-1999 10:49 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think that just might work Ron! The combination of appropriate warnings on the submit form that people couldn't miss seeing and subsequent posts not being at the top of the list would certainly discourage multiple posting, in my opinion! I say let's give it a try!  

 Denise

RainbowGirl
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since 07-31-99
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14 posted 12-31-1999 11:10 AM       View Profile for RainbowGirl   Email RainbowGirl   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit RainbowGirl's Home Page   View IP for RainbowGirl

Oh dear...I'm another one who hasn't been around as much either for the same reasons...there is so much wonderful poetry being written and I'm usually downloading when I'm here so things go a bit slow...but I'm starting off replying to those on the last page (set to 2 days)first now..and I miss many because I find it takes me about 3-5 minutes, reading and replying to each one and because it's so family orientated..I want to reply to all and can't..

So, after being so long winded, I think Ron's idea is a neat one..

Just one last thing: Did you really mean you were bringing it up for one last time...oooops..*g*

HUSG

 Don't ask me where I'm going, just listen when I'm gone and far away you'll hear me singing softly to the dawn.

Poet deVine
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15 posted 12-31-1999 12:26 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Let's give it a try! Can't hurt....and again, if you are in touch with newbies.. stress the less will get more theory!  
Munda
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since 10-08-1999
Posts 3629
The Hague, The Netherlands


16 posted 12-31-1999 04:38 PM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

I must admit....I too have been overwhelmed by all these multiple postings and not been on Open much for that reason....it just is too much....I can't keep up. : (
Anyway, isn't it possible to allow every member to submit no more than 2 original posts per day, in each forum ? If that rule goes for every member, nobody can complain, right ? ; ) And it still allows you to reply as much as you'd like. : ) : )
Otherwise.....I'll go for Ron's solution ! ; )
Almost midnight on this side of the ocean....Happy New Year to all of you ! : )

Munda
DreamEvil
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17 posted 12-31-1999 05:16 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Ron, I have one question for you.

What of those creative souls that are more than capable of writing several good pieces in one day?

The problem I see with multiple postings are the individuals who deluge Open forum with several of their pieces at once. Perhaps a time limit between posts would be more effective since the traffic we have will bury the first post in short order.


 Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
                                            DreamEvilİ
-------------------------------------------------------
"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

Count Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade
                        (Marquis de Sade)



[This message has been edited by DreamEvil (edited 12-31-1999).]
Denise
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18 posted 12-31-1999 05:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Happy New Year to you, too, Munda! Have a safe and happy one!  

 Denise

Balladeer
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19 posted 12-31-1999 06:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, there are certainly enough people who recognize this as a major problem. Ron, your suggestion has merit but I don't see it as being too feasible. The problem is this:
   The majority of the people doing the multiple posting are new members. Poet deVine, as she has stated, sends out e-mails informing them of rules and guidelines and asks them not to engage in multiple posts. They do anyway. If you arrange it so their subsequent posts after the first one goes to the previous day, they will simply find it and, either themselves or a friend they have on the site, will bump it to the front. Don't think they won't. They have already disregarded the rules to get that far.

  The only way I see is to restrict the posts. The only way to post a poem is to hit the POST NEW TOPIC button. In a perfect world, that action could be programmed as to where the same user, or computer, could only use that function, say, twice per 24 hour period and would receive an EXCEEDING DAILY LIMIT message when attempting to post more. I say in a perfect world because I do not know what intricasies are involved here with the POST NEW TOPIC function....and I hate the thought of even attempting to impose on you, Ron, for more programming after all you have already done but I see no other way. We have asked, requested, and almost insisted that the guidelines be followed and still that's not working. I personally feel two posts per day is a fair number. For those prolific poets mentioned who can produce more than that, well, poems are not ham....they don't spoil or turn green. Surely it's not that big of an emergency that they get on the same day they are created.
     We are in danger of losing the participation of our good members for the sake of kamikazee kommandos who come in, drop their load, and crash.

      (the soap box is now vacant)
Nan
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20 posted 12-31-1999 07:30 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

...Not to mention, Deer Balladeer - Just because they have a posting limit in one forum doesn't mean they can't contribute to some of the other "slower" forums, does it?  
Poet deVine
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21 posted 12-31-1999 07:33 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Why not just make a pact...if you see more than two posts by any member, don't read them...I know it's simplistic but we are getting bigger and bigger..there will come a time when the members post so many poems in one day that, even without multiples, we won't be able to read them all!  

Balladeer
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22 posted 12-31-1999 07:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Absolutely right, Nan. That would be a good by-product.

deVine one, how's the weather there in Fantasyland? hehe. Wouldn't it be a little more feasible to prevent the multiple posts rather than form pacts to ignore them...and how would you know they were multiple posts? What if a new member came to Passions, read a poem by Poet deVine, and was so impressed by it he searched for your other works and commented on them, putting them all on page 1? Would some say, "Look at that deVine and her multiple posts!". Would you then click on the poem to find out when it was submitted and then look to see how many other posts that person made to know whether or not to post a reply? No, my friend. The only solution is to prevent multiple posts....period.
hoot_owl_rn
Member Patricius
since 07-05-99
Posts 11105
Glen Hope, PA USA


23 posted 12-31-1999 09:48 PM       View Profile for hoot_owl_rn   Email hoot_owl_rn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit hoot_owl_rn's Home Page   View IP for hoot_owl_rn

Balladeer, the only fault I can see with your and Ron solutions is that in the publishing poetion, I sometimes post two or three things at a time because I do that when I have the extra time...It would have to change the way I do things there, but I can handle that
DreamEvil
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since 06-22-99
Posts 2442


24 posted 01-02-2000 06:09 PM       View Profile for DreamEvil   Email DreamEvil   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DreamEvil's Home Page   View IP for DreamEvil

Revered Elder there lies a small flaw within your argument. Anyone could have all their work brought up but the sheer number of replies would indicate that the posts could not have been recent. Moreover, what is wrong with reading the work of a favorite poet and commenting on it? That is why Open 1-4 are still open for replies.

Since all are in agreement that it is the new members deluging Open with their work, the logical alternative would still be to limit the number of posts by Junior members and not every member. That would allow the newbies time to adjust and to see how Passions works. I agree that limiting posts is the way to go but doing it across the board to all poets is unconscionable, especially when the established poets know and follow the rules, for the most part.


 Now and forever, my heart hears ~one voice~.
DreamEvilİ
-------------------------------------------------------
"Either kill me or take me as I am,
because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

Count Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade
(Marquis de Sade)

 
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