How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Archives
 Critical Analysis #1 Archive
 CONSPIRACY Would welcome comments on poe
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Follow us on Facebook

 This is an Archive. You may post a reply, but new topics are not allowed.

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Create a Greeting Card with this Poem
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

CONSPIRACY (comments on poem and topic)Would welcome comments on poem and topic,

 Post A Reply   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Englishpoet
Member
since 12-18-2001
Posts 54
Birmingham, England


0 posted 12-19-2001 10:55 PM       View Profile for Englishpoet   Email Englishpoet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Englishpoet's Home Page   View IP for Englishpoet

CONSPIRACY

When our government conspires
With the monarchs and dictators,
Like a deer drowned by an alligator,
Hope of the public expires.
Flags of freedom fail to flutter,
Democracy melts like hot butter.
Certainty suffers, integrity abused.
Only the Devil amused.
Love sighs, Fraternity cries,
Equality is an extremist stand,
Justice is buried in the sand.
Humanity stretched like rubber band.
When our government conspires,
Injustice and vested interest aspire.
Principles are flaunted and defaulted.
Truth is mocked and halted.
When our governments conspire.
Rights of the public expire.

2001 by Asif Ahmed.

© Copyright 2001 Asif Ahmed - All Rights Reserved
Ian Llewellyn ap-Griffith
Member
since 02-12-2000
Posts 200
Cincinnati, Oh, U.S.A.


1 posted 12-20-2001 02:26 PM       View Profile for Ian Llewellyn ap-Griffith   Email Ian Llewellyn ap-Griffith   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ian Llewellyn ap-Griffith

Politically, I agree with you. Poetically, I think this one needs some work.
Firstly, your rhyme scheme is all over the place. In your first four lines, I am not sure if the second and third lines are supposed to rhyme. They are close but at best they are a near-rhyme. If you followed this scheme throughout, the reader would have a better idea of how to read these near-rhymes.
Then lines 5 & 6 and 7 & 8 rhyme as couplets. Then you go to an abbb scheme for the next four lines. Then the last six lines are couplets. This can be very confusing to the reader and makes the poem awkward to read. If a poem must rhyme (which I am all for!) the scheme must have some internal consistancy. It can be as intricate as you like. For instance, you could alternate abab (or abba) quatrains with couplets. I love to play with rhyme schemes and try to come up with interesting ones. Play with it, it's a blast!
Secondly, your images are also a bit disjointed. By that I mean that you jump from one sentiment to another couching them in concrete images. This passage:
    'Flags of freedom fail to flutter,
     Democracy melts like hot butter.
     Certainty suffers, integrity abused.
     Only the Devil amused.
     Love sighs, Fraternity cries,
     Equality is an extremist stand,
     Justice is buried in the sand.
     Humanity stretched like rubber band.'
is an example. It feels like you are just listing feelings with little connection between them.
Please don't be discouraged, you have something to say. Keep practising how you say it. You will get better! I am always trying to improve my writing.
And this is a good forum to get the help we all can use.

Sing while you may
  -The Prophet Qa'sepel

Your pain is for you alone, As it is, As it was, As it will be forever, Amen
   -The Prophet Qa'sepel

rich-pa
Member
since 02-07-2000
Posts 325
New Orleans, Louisiana


2 posted 12-20-2001 08:54 PM       View Profile for rich-pa   Email rich-pa   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rich-pa

i say screw the rhyme, but that's me.  i did come across with a very vague feeling about this poem, i mean i know it's about politics and i can feel the idea but the thoughts are disjunct, leaving me with more a vague concept than a solid idea.....good though, i'm all about poltiical stuff

"freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..."  -janis joplin

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


3 posted 12-20-2001 11:39 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I would suggest you get more specific. What conspiracy? Whenever I hear political poetry like this, I'm left wondering if the author has a full understanding of the subject, or if they are just going through their rebellious anarchy phase. Don't just tell me hope and freedom expire- how? Get specific, on examples,reactions, effects- by citing examples and how they affect people, you will be able to get people to listen to their ideas by first appealing to their senses and emotions.

"we are all citizens of the womb before we subdivide
into shades and sexes- this side, that side" -Ani DiFranco

strbbux
Member Elite
since 12-19-2001
Posts 3975


4 posted 12-21-2001 02:03 PM       View Profile for strbbux   Email strbbux   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for strbbux

Well here again english poet, is my two cents worth. I see a poem as this, political, and just as it is written to be very good. I feel the feeling, and then I draw my own conclusion as to what I think injustice and lack of freedom are, because everyone has a different view of this anyway and you are not pushing your views on people. I loved this poem,yes it is political and some things are true, different incidents for different people. If you were to write out every little thing that you mean, it would be a loooooong poem and perhaps that wasn't what you intended. I believe we need to give the writer some leeway here. Enough said. I love this poem as it is. strbbux
Englishpoet
Member
since 12-18-2001
Posts 54
Birmingham, England


5 posted 12-21-2001 06:13 PM       View Profile for Englishpoet   Email Englishpoet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Englishpoet's Home Page   View IP for Englishpoet

Dear Strbbux

You are absolutely right -that's the point as a poet one has to arouse the mind of others to think of justice, truth and rights of public with words. In most of my poetry, I leave it to the read to define their truth etc.

For me, injustice is exploitation. i.e. when one man puts down another man, he is unjust. When one's right to life and liberty is denied, we have abandoned freedom. When the media uses filter to selectively provide news, freedom is compromised.  

We have to want for others what we want for ourselves. And our governments must be Ethical in Politics i.e. lets demand from our governments that the ethics at home is practised aboard. Even when there are others who do not agree with us - we must uphold liberal Decocracy. Lets not let allow multinationals to exploit the World resources in the name of profit or in our name.

Asif

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


6 posted 12-22-2001 12:08 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I'm not saying you should cite every "conspiracy" there is. But think of it this way- you might be very informed on the specifics of this problem, but your audience might not. Shouldn't you give them a little meat to digest? Why not get them interested, point them in the direction of something they can inform themselves about. Besides, I'm willing to bet that even if your audience is well informed, they want something- some sort of direction besides the general theme that government corruption is bad.

Besides- could you clarify a bit here?  

"lets demand from our governments that the ethics at home is practised aboard. Even when there are others who do not agree with us - we must uphold liberal Decocracy. "

What exactly do you mean? That our government installations (whoever 'our' is- I am assuming you're English) should behave the same in other countries as they do in our own? If so I agree. But if you mean we should make sure we "liberate" every non-democratic country and make them realize that our way of life is "right," then I don't agree with you. See- this is what I mean about specific- you have a general thesis of "right" and "wrong" that first of all, isn't even clearly stated- I don't even know what you mean. How can I know if I agree with you if I'm wondering which interpretation is right? That's what I mean by get specific. When you state things in general, you're really not saying anything at all.

"I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow
I'm thinking about being on my own
I think I been wasting my time
I'm thinking about getting out"

[This message has been edited by hush (12-22-2001 12:08 PM).]

Englishpoet
Member
since 12-18-2001
Posts 54
Birmingham, England


7 posted 12-22-2001 12:50 PM       View Profile for Englishpoet   Email Englishpoet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Englishpoet's Home Page   View IP for Englishpoet

Dear Hush
Thank you for your comments. But as a poet I want to be vague to let the reader see the light. I will give serious thoughts to your comments.

As for democracy being instigated globally, I do not believe in forcing anyone to democracy but to persuade.  We have it but it is for others to realise that it's not perfect but the best way to ensure that the ordinary people have a voice. It's the slow evolutionary process. What I mean is that we should ensure that our governments do not promote and support un-elected leaders even when its in our short-term National interest. Unfortunately, those who want to exploit resources can hijack the word Democracy.  Democracy does not equal Free Market.  On the contrary, it relates to the ordinary working public having a voice for their rights.

By ethics I mean that we should ensure that our government provides the law so that multinational companies do not abuse the rights of people of developing countries where their governments are unethical. As an example: the rules for animal experimentation that are in England should also apply in India/China/South America etc for British registered companies.

Know you know my view points.

strbbux
Member Elite
since 12-19-2001
Posts 3975


8 posted 12-22-2001 01:31 PM       View Profile for strbbux   Email strbbux   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for strbbux

Asif, I have done very little of this type of critique, but I have done some . I read this over and I also read the others replies to this and one was about the rhyme... so I did this,, look at it..You don't have to accept any of it if it is not to your liking, because in the end, us poets will always do our own thing. But I still like this piece and I still like the fact that it makes one think and draw their own conclusion...everyone has a right to their own opinion and that is just mine. here is what I did.. strbbux


CONSPIRACY

When our government conspires
Hope of the public expires.
With the monarchs and dictators,
Like a deer drowned by an alligator,
Flags of freedom fail to flutter,
Democracy melts like hot butter.
Certainty suffers, integrity abused.
Only the Devil amused.
Equality is an extremist stand,
Justice is buried in the sand.
Humanity stretched like rubber band.
When our government conspires,
Injustice and vested interest aspire.
Principles are flaunted and defaulted.
Truth is mocked and halted.
When our governments conspire.
Rights of the public expire.
Love sighs, Fraternity cries
Amidst all the lies.






Englishpoet
Member
since 12-18-2001
Posts 54
Birmingham, England


9 posted 12-22-2001 05:53 PM       View Profile for Englishpoet   Email Englishpoet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Englishpoet's Home Page   View IP for Englishpoet

Dear Strbbux

Thank you. I like your input. thank you.
asif
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


10 posted 12-26-2001 11:04 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

"But as a poet I want to be vague to let the reader see the light."

Being vague really doesn't do anything to let anyone see any light. You don't have to go all out and hit the reader on the head with what you mean, but the vaguer you are, the less you are saying. The less you say, the less the reader thinks about what you write.

"I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow
I'm thinking about being on my own
I think I been wasting my time
I'm thinking about getting out"

strbbux
Member Elite
since 12-19-2001
Posts 3975


11 posted 12-26-2001 07:16 PM       View Profile for strbbux   Email strbbux   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for strbbux

Dear hush and English, there are many different types of poetry, some are vague and some hit you on the head.. So, since there are different types of people in our world, I do expect a variety of writings. And this makes the world very ineresting. With variety. Everyone to their own choice. So you are not wrong, and I am not right. Just different. Love, floria
Pilgrimage
Member Elite
since 12-04-2001
Posts 3905
Texas, USA


12 posted 12-26-2001 10:43 PM       View Profile for Pilgrimage   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Pilgrimage

Dear Englis Poet,
Overall, I found this an interesting poem. And that's good, because I'm not a political animal.  The line 'Injustice and vested interest aspire' isn't clear to me. What do you mean by 'aspire' here? Also, as some others have commented on the rhyme scheme, or lack of one, I won't go into detail. But I like a definite rhyme scheme, and complexity is good.

Nan

Englishpoet will be notified of replies
 Post A Reply   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Archives >> Critical Analysis #1 >> CONSPIRACY Would welcome comments on poe Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Create a Greeting Card with this Poem
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors