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Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia

0 posted 2001-05-07 03:03 AM


Bruce

I remember the day,
with the sun slanting brightly
across the hospital floor,
and his voice like it
clear and warm.

He said: My friend,
if I come through
I'll be delighted.
But if all this fails,
(he gestured, widely
to the machines around him)
I will be content.
He paused and smiled:
I won't say I'll be delighted,
but by God's grace,
I will be content.

This week he walks
the grey and lonely corridor
that ends in other sunshine,
and I myself must learn
to be content.


Fire away, friends - I'd love to hear your thoughts.

© Copyright 2001 Joricho - All Rights Reserved
anonymous albert ?
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2001-03-23
Posts 2979

1 posted 2001-05-07 03:25 AM


hey there...welcome to CA!! ..i hope you like it here..its a great place to be at... and on the poem i thought it was nice a little different but interetsing..great job tho... and keep writing

...?

if i die before i wake , i pray the lord my soul will take-"when thugs cry"

[This message has been edited by anonymous albert ? (edited 05-07-2001).]

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
2 posted 2001-05-07 01:13 PM


Welcome to CA.
I like the imagery in this poem.  My best advice is to economize--as few words as possible while retaining as much meaning as possible.  
Example for first stanza:

His voice was clear and warm
Like the sun slanting brightly
across the hospital floor,

This is a powerful idea overall.

Disclaimer: The preceding statement is just my opinion.


Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
3 posted 2001-05-07 07:34 PM


Thanks!
Kirk, I talk too much when I speak AND when I write - need to learn to cut down. The friend that I wrote this about was a published poet who adored Robert Frost - the poet of simplicity extraordinaire! WISH I could write like that.

Many waters cannot quench love,
nor will rivers overflow it.
If a man were to give all the riches of his house for love,
it would be utterly despis

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
4 posted 2001-05-08 12:47 PM


joricho--

this has a nice soft tone and a quiet sadness that i found touching.  i really loved the understated ending.  very, very nice.

like kirk, i thought the first stanza could be tightened up a little.  whatever you do there, though (i liked kirk's suggestions), i'd keep "i remember" as your first two words, i think they're crucial to setting the tone here.  and while there's nothing wrong with approaching a subject indirectly, especially in a piece like this, i think you'd have an even more effective piece if you began with "i remember his voice" rather than "i remember the day" or something else; the friend's voice in the second stanza is in many ways the heart of the piece, where so much of the subtle emotional power of the poem comes from.

one more thing: i loved the title, too.  it seems like such a simple thing, and i guess in a way it is, but ironically, it really adds depth to the poem, in my opinion.  it keeps the friend from becoming an abstraction, something generic.  he is a real person; his name is bruce.  well done.

thanks for posting this for us, and welcome to the forum.  i hope to see a lot more of your work out here.

jenni

Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
5 posted 2001-05-08 08:17 AM


Thanks so much, Jenni - really encouraging and really constructive! As you say, this is a poem about a real person and a real experience - when I thought about a title, any abstract kind of word seemed to belittle the man and the experience. I'm thinking about:

I remember his voice:
clear and warm,
like the sun slanting brightly
across the hospital floor.

Better?

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
6 posted 2001-05-08 10:38 AM


yay!  i like it.  
Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
7 posted 2001-05-08 07:07 PM


Joricho, Jenni, and Anybody:

In response to jenni's wanting to keep "I remember" as the first words--The "I Remember" Poem is becoming a genre of its own (unfortunately) through its popular use as a writing exercise in HS and college classrooms for poetry.  I think it is based on a poem about the day JFK was shot and what the author remembered.  Anyway, I was curious if this was written as an assignment and if anyone besides me finds the idea of "I Remember" poems good for practice, but less than ideal for actual use (because it takes away from the originality, etc.)?

Disclaimer: The preceding statement is just my opinion.


jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
8 posted 2001-05-08 07:50 PM


kirk--

an excellent point, kirk.  

i guess in a sense almost any poem can begin "i remember...", and it's usually not my preferred way of starting things off; most times, it's not a particularly great way to grab the reader's attention.  

but i thought it suited the poem here.  it establishes the tone, obviously, and it acts as more than just a simple framing device.  the poem is basically about loss, the speaker's loss of his friend, and i think it's cool to start off with something the speaker HAS, even now, even after his friend's death: the memory of his voice.  and i think it's fair to say it's that memory which kind of haunts the speaker today, but which will help heal him eventually.  so i think it's important that it be in the poem.

i haven't seen this JFK poem you're talking about, but if the writer is just using "i remember" to get into the piece, i'd say take a different approach.  i think the question is, is it important that the reader know what you were doing on such and such a day, or is it important that the reader know you remember it now?  there's a difference, and i think in this piece the act of remembering itself is important.  

i also thought about whether it was actually good or necessary to say "i remember" outright, or whether the same idea could be accomplished in some more indirect, less obvious way.  but you know?  the rest of the piece is so simple, very understated and almost matter-of-fact, that i thought a  direct, but soft, approach here was pretty good.  indeed, that's probably the thing i like best about the piece, it doesn't try to do too much, to manipulate the reader into cheap sentiment by turning the waterworks on to full gush, lol.  so, i thought, keep it simple.  just say it: "i remember...."

do you agree?  i'm sure there are lots of different approaches one can take.  that's really a great point, though, kirk, i'm glad you raised it.

jenni

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
9 posted 2001-05-08 08:18 PM


Nice point, Jenni.  I see what you are saying, I think it is a matter of being aware of the fact that you are or are not stating "I remember...".  I agree with you that it is somewhat effective in this work, but I would argue that it is an exception.

Disclaimer: The preceding statement is just my opinion.


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
10 posted 2001-05-08 08:19 PM


Good morning,

I thought the revised stanza was a vast improvement.

The 'I remember' discussion is interesting -- I have a tendency to see them as mere functional words (I don't really notice them) -- perhaps that's a weakness for this poem -- or perhaps it's my weakness. Shouldn't the question be whether the first line grabs the reader, whether the reader wants to read more from that first line alone? In this case, probably not.

I found the last stanza jarring because it's so predictable. You set up the problem and then answer it, there is very little surprise here. What about a switch in voice? Turn the last stanza on it's head and have the sick patient as the speaker and the former speaker the one who is in the 'other sunshine' (the dark and lonely corridor struck me as too parallel by the way).

If you do this, the title takes on a nice meaning. The reader is led to believe that the the first speaker is not Bruce (the patient is indicated) only to learn that the the first part of the poem is, in fact, a different poem by Bruce. I'm talking about layers here.

Just some ideas,
Brad

Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
11 posted 2001-05-09 05:09 AM


mm, yes - thank you all for your thoughts. I should explain that this was a poem written with very little "crafting" - it expressed almost exactly what I was feeling at the time - looking back to the day when I'd seen Bruce in hospital and expressing what I felt when I heard he was about to die. That's why I started with "I remember" - and that quiet, hazy sense of the warm day I sat next to his hospital bed was what I wanted to capture. Jenni, I think you "get" it - thanks! (I'm a "she", by the way!)
Brad, I totally agree that the last stanza is the weakest part - it sounds trite, which I hate. I like your idea aesthetically, but can't quite bring myself to use it because it would mess with the memory that I'm trying to communicate! But thanks - I'll work on it!

Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
12 posted 2001-05-09 06:06 AM


Could I lose the last stanza all together? I think it would be TOO short and simple then.

[This message has been edited by Joricho (edited 05-09-2001).]

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
13 posted 2001-05-09 01:56 PM


joricho--

i liked brad's suggestions for the ending (or, put it this way, i didn't think they were ridiculous, lol), but i agree, they mess with the memory you're trying to communicate.  what he's really asking for is a different poem entirely.  nothing wrong with that, really, and if you were so inclined, hey, give it a shot.

i don't think you can just delete the last stanza entirely, you need something, at least, like what you have now.  i wouldn't change the sense of it too much.  is this the greatest poem ever written?  well, i don't think you'll be offended if i say no, it's certainly not.  can it be improved?  of course.  the second and third lines of the last stanza could be more artfully expressed, perhaps.  but ya know?  this is now my fourth reply on this piece, i keep coming back to it, so something about it must be pretty good, lol.  maybe in a weird way this particular poem "works" BECAUSE it was "written with very little 'crafting'", as you say.   maybe it's just me, the life experiences i bring to the piece as a reader, whatever.  but as far as i'm concerned, you made a real connection with at least one reader, so hey, i say you done good, girl, lol.

but, ok, jenni liked the poem.  big flippin' deal, lol.  at the end of the day, of course, what matters is whether YOU are satisfied with it.  

you say the last stanza sounds trite.  so, try keeping it grounded in simple details.  keep the reader in that hospital room.  what happened when he died?  all the little indicator lights on those machines went red, a nurse came in the room and turned them off.  silence.  for the first time you could hear the birds outside.  two orderlies wheeled him away on a guerny.  and now it is the speaker who must learn to be content.  whatever; use your imagination.  stick with real, everyday details, though, and i don't think you can go wrong.

good luck!

ok, i'll shut up now, lol.

jenni

Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
14 posted 2001-05-09 06:35 PM


I lay in bed last night trying to work out the last stanza, and guess what, Jenni - came up with the same conviction! It needs to talk about the REAL details... because that's the kind of poem it is!
Something like:

In the long corridor outside
nurses rattled by,
and as the sunlight faded,
we sat and talked.

And now I'm going to stop obsessing, and go and look at OTHER people's poetry!
Jenni, you've been GREAT - thanks again!!
Jo

Many waters cannot quench love,
nor will rivers overflow it.
If a man were to give the riches of his house for love,
it would be utterly despised

Pearls_Of_Wisdom
Member
since 2000-09-02
Posts 175

15 posted 2001-05-14 10:49 AM


Uh-oh, I came in at the end of the big ol' discussion!  =)

Well, anyway, hello there and welcome.  I really liked this.  Sometimes simplicity and a lack of "crafting" can be the perfect way to express something.  Don't pay any attention to Brad.  I've read several of his posts and I don't think I've heard him say one positive thing to anyone (incidentally, he also totally trashed my first post here, so I'm of course totally unbiased!).  You wanted to convey how you felt, and I think you've done that beautifully.  I agree with the suggestion for the first stanza.  

Your final idea on the last stanza seems to end the poem on a bittersweet note.  It's a good ending, I think, but the first ending conveyed a feeling of letting go and knowing that it's time to move on.  Just a thought, but before I got to the end of all these posts, I was thinking: why not just end it as, "With God grace, so will I, I thought / as the last light slipped away." or something that incorporates the best of both possible endings. (I know that's not the best - it's hard to write as if you're someone else!)  Anyway, if you do see this, let me know what you think.  I know how important endings are, so I can totally emphathize with your lying awake at night thinking about it!  =)

Ashley

Kurt Rhys
Junior Member
since 2001-05-08
Posts 23

16 posted 2001-05-14 01:52 PM


Sparse but true, my uncle was such an optimist, right up until he drifted into unconciousness. Some would say, "needs fleshing out", others. "leave as is".....either is the right answer.
Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
17 posted 2001-05-15 08:25 AM


Bless you all!

JO

Many waters cannot quench love,
nor will rivers overflow it.
If a man were to give the riches of his house for love,
it would be utterly despised

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