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Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO

0 posted 2001-05-02 06:08 PM


Naked Headless Barbie Dolls
by Kirk T Walker

The girls would decorate them
in hair ribbons and a dress.
The boys would decapitate them
and leave them in their nakedness.

The girls would tattle to their mothers
Who would find the boys and berate them.
Despite this experience and others
with boys, later the girls would still date them.


© Copyright 2001 Kirk T Walker - All Rights Reserved
roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
1 posted 2001-05-02 11:49 PM


kirk-
the first stanza seems almost funny, but the second- geez you've got a pretty scary subject here, even if you didn't mean to make it so.  i love it though.  the total contrast in the first stanza: boys, girls, decorate, decapitate.  the rhyme even works well.  
the second stanza, the darker one, i think is great (although the date/berate rhyme may be stretching it a little bit).  i don't know if i am taking this too seriously or what, but it seems almost morbid.  that these men are out to destroy what the girls make pretty.  you also have to consider that girls dress the dolls and do their hair and eventually perform these same rituals on themselves.  what do the boys do?  what is their counter-action for this?  the reader shudders to think.
then again, taken with more levity, i can kind of see it as a "girls out grow their petty tattling, boys learn not to decapitate things" type of lesson.  i guess that would be the more acceptable way to take it.  i think you're probably saying that we outgrow certain things, but i kind of like the more sinister side too.
that's what makes your poems so great.  there are always several different, diametrically opposite ways of reading them.  good work.

anonymous albert ?
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 2001-03-23
Posts 2979

2 posted 2001-05-03 04:02 AM


i have no criticism..as always..hehe
but..yea..i did like this poem even tho it was adifferent from your other works..
keep writing..cya kirk

...?

if i die before i wake , i pray the lord my soul will take-"when thugs cry"

furlong
Member
since 2001-04-08
Posts 129

3 posted 2001-05-03 06:42 AM


Kirk

I'm with Roxane on this.  You have a nice thing going in suggestiveness.  For a while I messed around with your opening wondering if it might not be possible to work in a more half-meaning in order maybe to signal the sinister side of this a little more clearly.  Something along the lines of substituting the adjective "their" for the pronoun "them":

"The girls would decorate their
hair etc etc "

thereby introducing a substantial degree of ambiguity.  However, in doing this you lose the repetition of "them" which I liked and of course the whole second line has to be reworked - by which time I realised I was rewriting your poem, so I quit!   I quite liked the ingenious multi-word rhymes btw.

The title I feel spoils the effect somewhat.  It seems too overt, obvious, clumsy etc!  The problem as I see it is that the instant image provoked by the title is so immensely strong that on a first reading you carry that image foremost in your mind right to the end of the poem, and not much else matters.  Granted, on subsequent readings it doesn't intrude so much, but nevertheless the poem itself introduces headlessness and nakedness, so why give it all away practically before you start?

Maybe just the plural :

"Barbies"

Sort of resonates well with "babies", no?  Another hint at darkness maybe?  thereby adding something rather than taking away from the remainder of the poem.

Ok, I'll stop interfering now!  Thanks for another good read, and thanks to Roxane for the interesting crit.

F

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
4 posted 2001-05-03 04:11 PM


Thank you all for your thoughtful critique.  Firstly, I would like to say that although multiple interpretations will always exist within a poem, there is NO DIDACTIC MEANING intended.  The intended idea was similar to the more "sinister" of the two which roxanne discusses.  This poem is about the way in which the nature of intergender relatioship is influenced by past occurences as well as present needs and that neither gender seems to learn from their past mistakes or the mistakes of others enough to take them seriously and avoid the opposite sex. (I should note that this was not meant to be anti-family or anti-heterosexual, etc.) This was meant to be a comment on the way in which women allow men to assault their idenities in an attempt to "feminize" them, hence the headlessness.  Also it has sexual undertones, hence the nakedness (I will leave the rest of that to your imaginations).  It is meant to be a poem which is light on the surface but comments on relationships that can turn out very much like a fairy tale, but often has a tendancy to turn out much, much darker.  Here are just a few more ideas I tried to work in:  the image of nakedness and headlessness via repeition in the title is meant to be stressed--yes, I wanted the reader to visually picture the object first and then think of the implications, no girls in my family ever put ribbons in their barbie dolls hair that I can remember but I wanted to work in the imagery from Young Goodman Brown and other works where ribbons are symbolic, however, I think it is probably not obvious. Also, although the emphasis is on sympathy for the females, I tried to include diction that helped the reader sympathize with the frustrations which males feel in relationships as well ("tattle" as a precursor to nagging or deceit, the idea that the boys are "berated" by the mothers--notice it is not both parents.  Anyway, I hope this was a decent read and thanks again for responding.

[This message has been edited by Kirk T Walker (edited 05-03-2001).]

Pearls_Of_Wisdom
Member
since 2000-09-02
Posts 175

5 posted 2001-05-04 05:22 PM


Hi Kirk,

I must admit I totally didn't see the darker side to this at first (actually, until I read the comments).  Is there a way to bring this out just a bit more (if that's what you want to do)?  I liked it as a funny poem.  It does have interesting ideas in the darker direction, but I find it hard to see guys as so destructive and girls so frilly and benevolent.  Maybe it's just me.  Anyway, I like the idea of using something simple to convey something with a deeper meaning.  Neat idea.

One other small thought:  is there a less awkward way to say "with boys...." I found that part kind of stopped the flow.  Again, that's just my thought on it.  

Ashley

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
6 posted 2001-05-04 05:32 PM


Ashley:  Thanks for your comments.  Yes, it is primarily meant to be a funny poem on the surface, but the deeper meaning behind the humor is somewhat more dark (which the meaning behind humor almost always is pretty dark).  Also, I have had trouble with the "with boys" part of it, I forced it onto the last line, but its all because of syllables and I am working on fixing it. I think I may change the end to something like:
Despite this experience with boys and others,
When they grow up the girls will still date them.  
(but that's not quite right either) What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Kirk T Walker (edited 05-04-2001).]

redwriter1
Member
since 1999-07-22
Posts 480
Franklin, TN
7 posted 2001-05-04 09:27 PM


I thought this was totally cute.. and funny!  I have no comments, because I'm taking the poem as it is intended..

(in fun). xoxo
loved it!

Zyell
Member
since 2000-07-28
Posts 121
USA
8 posted 2001-05-05 11:03 AM


this says so much  more than just cute~!
very well done!!!


*S*

Z

roxane
Senior Member
since 1999-09-02
Posts 505
us
9 posted 2001-05-05 11:57 AM


i don't know.  i think there are a lot of images in this poem that prevent it from being "cute"
as i've said, the decapitation contrasted with primping.  that's just sad.  there's absolutely nothing cute about decapitation.  if kirk had used a phrase like "chop their heads off" or "pulled out their hair/heads"  then it could be interpretted as "cute" or inocuous, i suppose.  decapitation connotes something much more severe, it's bordering the medicinal, something you'd read in an autopsy.  
i don't think the girls are presented as frilly or frivolous.  i think kirk intended it to be seen as the "inevitable."  despite the opposing nature of the two sexes, they are drawn together.  obviously, this same destruction will continue and manifest itself in some other form.  one has to think, when the girls dress up their dolls, and the boys behead them, they still go on doing it.  they continue to put the ribbons in their hair, they grow up to put the ribbons in their own hair.  it's almost as if that is an antagonist action towards the boys.  the boys behead the barbies, and leave them naked (both, unfortunately, pretty sexual in this piece) and will continue to do something like that in the future.  it's safe to say that not every boy is going to grow up to decapitate someone, so we actually see in this poem the boys being bent to the will of the girls.  as the girls' action becomes larger and more intense (moving from dolls to people) we see the boys' action diminishing or disappearing altogether (from the physical to possibly the emotional).  if taken in that context, the girls are the victors in kirk's battle of the sexes.
reading over your last line again, kirk, i think it could flow better with a couple changes.  i think the use of the word "others" is unnecessary.  since this stanza makes your whole point, you obviously want it to be as readable as possible.
oh well, that's about enough from me.  once again, still a great poem.

RLS106
New Member
since 2001-03-31
Posts 7
TX, U.S. A.
10 posted 2001-05-06 01:04 PM


I Liked the meter - here in the deep
south with the KKK and the CIA openning
the file on Mr. Barbie; I now know what
security minded woman are geared for,
someone who will pull thier head, arms, and
legs off. Thanks: liked your wordsmithing

(c) RLS 1975-2001,ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

Pearls_Of_Wisdom
Member
since 2000-09-02
Posts 175

11 posted 2001-05-07 02:05 PM


Kirk,

Hmmm... syllables are slippery things to get a hold of!  I'm thinking:

Despite this experience and others,
When they grow up, (the) girls will still date them.

Or.. The grown-up girls will / would still date them.

Does that help?  What do you think?  =)

Ashley

[This message has been edited by Pearls_Of_Wisdom (edited 05-07-2001).]

Joricho
Member
since 2001-05-06
Posts 56
Australia
12 posted 2001-05-07 07:28 PM


Kirk, I thought this was terrific - particularly the rhyming, which gives it that appropriate sense of being a neat little epigram. I think it's also the use of a fairly simple rhyming scheme which suggests that it's "cute" or "funny" - even though the topic is obviously not either! That to me is part of the skill of it - a kind of black humour or irony. It captures fairly neatly part of the human dilemma - we experience  early on in life that there are dark reaches to the human soul (particularly along the fault line of gender) and yet we keep reaching out to one another.
I do think you should lose the title - it makes me think of the name of a grunge band - which is not the "feel" of this poem at all.  

Many waters cannot quench love,
nor will rivers overflow it.
If a man were to give all the riches of his house for love,
it would be utterly despis

jenni
Member
since 1999-09-11
Posts 478
Washington D.C.
13 posted 2001-05-08 02:09 AM


hiya kirk--

i think you have the beginnings of an interesting poem here.  quirky, for sure, lol, and kind of cute and kind of dark, as rox and others have mentioned.

the thing that really stands out for me is your use of "would" to mark the habitual past tense throughout the piece.  i think the piece overall, and especially the first stanza, would be a little snappier in the present tense (and still mark habitual action):

Girls decorate them
in hair ribbons and a dress.
Boys decapitate them,
leave them in nakedness.

or even just "leave them naked," and yeah, ditching the rhyme then, which isn't really working anyway.  

i'm with ashley, i just don't see boys as these dark, evil creatures, perhaps not fully tamed by the time they are let loose on the world, or girls as these innocent, frivolous things who never quite learn, who are easily deceived by the Beast even after they grow up.  that's pretty close to what you have here (as i read it, at least).  lol, i don't know.  anyway, that said, i think you still have the beginnings of a good poem here; there are a lot of things to be said about gender differences and the socialization of boys and girls, which is what you're driving at in the piece.  

thanks for an interesting read,

jenni

[This message has been edited by jenni (edited 05-08-2001).]

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
14 posted 2001-05-08 07:13 PM


Some very, very good comments and advice! Thank you.  I have been reading them as they were posted, but not repsonding.  I apologize for that, but I am really busy right now with Final papers,projects, and tests coming up.  I also want to apologize for not responding to each of your thoughtful critiques individually, I am just pretty pressed for time.  However, be sure that I WILL be looking at these comments when I find time to revise this poem. Thanks again!
coyote
Senior Member
since 2001-03-17
Posts 1077

15 posted 2001-05-11 12:09 PM


Kirk,
I have to like this piece simply because it has those layered currents and undertows flowing beneath the surface.
I think you have done a very good job and can't find any tweaks that haven't already been suggested.  

"The rose, like the cactus flower, protects herself with thorns. We however, impale ourselves on their beauty."
coyote

Kirk T Walker
Member
since 2000-01-13
Posts 357
Liberty, MO
16 posted 2001-05-13 06:40 PM


coyote: Thank you for your comments.  Sorry I was so slow responding.
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