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Not A Poet
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since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA

0 posted 2001-09-05 10:59 AM


I originally posted this about a year ago. I have since removed much which just didn't fit and made numerous other changes to hopefully tighten it up a lot. Like last year, I again apologize for the length but if anyone can stay with it I would of course appreciate any advice. Thanks for reading.

           September


The time has come for us to talk,
But will we talk of time and space,
Of force and mass and relativity,
Or snow capped mountain peaks and cobalt seas
And valleys dressed in flowered Sunday best?
And is there time to talk of other things?
[Like sailing ships and sealing wax
Or cabbages and kings?]
Indeed I wonder, is there time to talk at all
[My hair is turning gray and thin
Although my waist is not at all]
So is there time to talk at all . . .
     Time to talk at all?

But of course there will be time
To ask. But should I ask or must I wonder?
Time to walk away or run,
Escape these cluttered musings -
Time to ask for more.
[But will my legs be limp and weak
And can I bring myself to speak
Or will my voice be thin and meek?]
So dare I ask,
Disturb this mystic mood?
Soon I think there will be time,
Time to ask, or wonder, what the future might include.

     Though I knew her but in passing by,
     I'll remember 'till I die.

But now I shall not ask for more
For I have had it all before, yes had it all,
From first to last, the worst and best, and in the way
I could not understand until today,
Had the fruit of love before the fall
And it was good - so good, indeed.
     So what more do I need?

I have known the smell of Spring, the taste of Spring -
The days and ways when life begins anew;
I have slept with, talked with Nature heart-to-heart
But still can't comprehend this complex thing
So how should I begin
Composing thoughts to words worth offering to you?

     Though I knew her but in passing by,
     I'll remember 'till I die.

I have felt the awesome weight of Autumn pressed
Against the breast of Earth when all prepare to sleep -
To sleep but dream of hope that she might keep
Seeds with which to start once more
The grand succession of before,
Splendid thoughts my simple words can just suggest.
     So what then could I need?
     And where then should I start?

Shall I claim, I have slain the dragons of the id,
Written words to soften hardest hearts to tears,
Drank with kings and danced with queens
And lived four hundred years?
No, that's not it at all, it seems.
     It's just not what I did.

Then shall I say I looked around and saw my life
Sorted, typed in columns there before my eyes
And hated all I saw although I realize
Our fervent want to columnize,
To categorize and standardize
And thereby rationalize.
[But I still refuse to be a line of numbers,
Undemanding bunch of digits on a mound
Of ink-stained paper - folded, filed away.]
     So what more can I say?
     And what more need I say?

Shall I curse [or praise instead] that power
Which brings despair whenever you're not near?
Each minute spent without you seems an hour,
Each day is like a month, each week a year.

Shall I wrestle Time lest he consume
My wrath against the fading of my light,
Or must I acquiesce and not presume
And slip in silence into that long night?

Shall the morning and the evening form
The seventh day for me to reminisce,
To discard reticence and thus reform
My thoughts. But still it all comes back to this:

     Though I knew her but in passing by,
     I'll remember her until I die.

I grow old . . . My hair is thin and gray,
My legs and thoughts are frail today,
Perhaps I'll wear suspenders and start walking with a cane.



© Copyright 2001 Pete Rawlings - All Rights Reserved
arthur
Senior Member
since 2001-08-14
Posts 678
england
1 posted 2001-09-05 11:29 AM


So
we have an old man looking back at his life
trying to make sense of it ( a hopeless task which he abondons at the end )
he is confused
he  knows he is more than just a number
but what is /was he?
then the central theme of the love
but here i get confused
was she real
was it a grand lasting inter action of the two?
or as i believe -a dream of what might have been.
of this i am not sure
the "passing bye" has an echo of an old English ballard in it
"I did but see her passing bye,
but yet shall love her till i die"
so
she is a dream maiden
Liked it all except the Lewis carrol reference which jarred with me

warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

2 posted 2001-09-05 12:17 PM


Dear Pete,

I recall this vaguely...and I love it. I would not presume to change a single word. I think it is wonderful. I probably asked this same question back then...was this the goddess?

Kris  

"It is wisdom to know others;
It is enlightenment to know one's self" - Lao Tzu

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
3 posted 2001-09-06 10:25 AM


Arthur,

Thanks for the in depth interpretation. I don't know that it is my interpretation but it is at least as valid and good as mine, if not better. I'm not sure whether the speaker is confused or just spilling random thoughts, an interesting consideration. I really like your question as to the status of the lover, real, wished or imagined. That does add considerably. I'll leave the answer to you, my friend since you have done such an outstanding job already.

As for the Lewis Carrol reference, I am tending to agree with you. Originally I had a couple of other such semi-quotes which fell to the editor's eraser. And there is still one from Dylan Thomas which has been edited so as to make you look for it. The purpose was to stress the randomness of thoughts being expressed but with that one being the only obvious one left, it probably detracts more than it adds.

BTW, there are a couple of other little "surprises" included also.

Kris,

You are much too kind but I thank you for that. As I recall last year when you first saw this one, you didn't think so highly of it. I take that to mean that I have managed to improve it, at least to your thinking.

I'm not sure but I suspect you did ask that same question the last time and I probably didn't answer it then either  

Actually this started out as just a bunch of more or less random thoughts and a couple of lines from well-known poems which I tried to pull together into something cohesive along the lines of Eliot's "Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."

Thanks all
Pete

warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

4 posted 2001-09-06 11:40 AM


Pete...

"She" is life, the life force, mother nature?

Kris       



"It is wisdom to know others;
It is enlightenment to know one's self" - Lao Tzu

[This message has been edited by warmhrt (edited 09-06-2001).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767
Southern Abstentia
5 posted 2001-09-06 05:27 PM


ah Amore....

to love somebody -- no higher aspiration...

and I still maintain -- sex, love, betrayal... sure there are other themes -- but this one sells...

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
6 posted 2001-09-10 05:46 PM


Kris, that could be too. But it does take some deeper thought to come up with it.

Reb, thanks for commenting. I can't disagree with you this time.

Pete

Ryan
Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297
Kansas
7 posted 2001-09-19 01:12 AM


Of course, the first thing that came to mind when reading this was that it had a similar feel to The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock.  The voices of the speakers in the two poems are both so similar.  Upon reading your comments, I see that was your initial intentions, so along those lines, I'd say you succeeded.

On the whole, I enjoyed this.  There are some small comments I have which I'll talk about here.

quote:
Our fervent want to columnize,
To categorize and standardize
And thereby rationalize.
[But I still refuse to be a line of numbers,
Undemanding bunch of digits on a mound
Of ink-stained paper - folded, filed away.]


The meter here seems to become irregular, disrupting the flow of the poem.  I had specific problems with categorize and rationalize.

quote:
Shall I curse [or praise instead] that power
Which brings despair whenever you're not near?
Each minute spent without you seems an hour,
Each day is like a month, each week a year


I like the first line here alot, but the other three don't seem to work.  The second line borders on a cliche of sorts, and I think it could be redone more effectively.  The third and fourth lines seem to overemphasize your point.  At the least, I don't believe the fourth line is necessary.

quote:
And slip in silence into that long night?


There seems to be one too many syllables in this line, and it really hurt the pace (in my reading) of that stanza, which otherwise flows well.

I'm torn by the break in meter in the last line.  On the surface level, it breaks the flow, and thus should probably be fixed.  But I can also see reasons for why you would want this (for example, a show of defiance in old age).  My gut says that it is good how it is.

Those are all the thoughts I have for now.  Thanks for the read, I'm glad I made it through.

Ryan

Sigur Ros

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
8 posted 2001-09-19 11:06 AM


Hi Ryan,

Thanks for spending a good amount of time and effort reviewing this piece. Now I'd like to briefly discuss your comments.

Your first point about the broken rhythm is certainly a good one.
quote:
The meter here seems to become irregular, disrupting the flow of the poem.  I had specific problems with categorize and rationalize.

Particularly categorize and rationalize do disrupt the flow. I too stumble each time I read that section. But it was intentional. I can't say that I had an explainable reason for doing it except to say that I really wanted the internal rhymes. If I remember correctly, there was an additional word in the original. But it well may be that it doesn't work as I wanted. Perhaps the disruption outweighs the initial intent. The wording of the section probably doesn't add much anyway so it probably could be rewritten or even removed entirely. Or would it be better to  present that section parenthesized to sort of show that I knew it was a speedbump? Thanks for the observation.

As for the redundancy of the lines you next referenced, I guess that's a matter of personal preference.
quote:
I like the first line here alot, but the other three don't seem to work.  The second line borders on a cliche of sorts, and I think it could be redone more effectively.  The third and fourth lines seem to overemphasize your point.  At the least, I don't believe the fourth line is necessary.

I rather liked them and felt that they served well to build upon the initial thought and strengthen the idea. I have to agree though that the section does border on cliche. BTW, the 4th line is necessary. You see, I couldn't help myself. I just had to hide a sonnet in there so that line is required to that end.

quote:
There seems to be one too many syllables in this line, and it really hurt the pace (in my reading) of that stanza, which otherwise flows well.

Referring to the last line of this stanza:

   Shall I wrestle Time lest he consume
   My wrath against the fading of my light,
   Or must I acquiesce and not presume
   And slip in silence into that long night?

This time I can't agree. The syllable count seems right and the meter seems to work with just a little effort. Perhaps you can elaborate a little.

Ryan, thanks again for your time and for some good insight. I think we all learn just a little each time someone does a job like this.

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

Ryan
Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297
Kansas
9 posted 2001-09-19 12:21 PM


I don't have time to discuss all your points (homework calls), but I do want to bring up the meter in the last line of the wrestle time stanza.  I've just reread it several times, and decided that the meter wasn't the problem.  But I was still tripping up everytime I hit the word "into."  I'm now wondering if it is the accents of the syllables in the last few words of that line.  When I read the end of that line ("into that long night"), I am reading both syllables of into as unstressed.  Maybe that it is not what you intended (and maybe that is now what others are doing), but I believe that is where my flow problems with that line stem from.  But, since that is quite possibly only b/c of my personal reading style, I can't make any suggestions on changing it or not (though I can say that when I replaced "into" with "upon," it read more smoothly to me).  Okay, I really must be going off to reading now.  I will try to find some time later to continue this discussion.  Thanks.

Ryan

Sigur Ros

Kit McCallum
Administrator
Member Laureate
since 2000-04-30
Posts 14774
Ontario, Canada
10 posted 2001-09-19 08:57 PM


Pete, I've just been meandering about the forums a bit, and wanted to comment that I thought this piece was splendid. The sentiments you portrayed and the phrasing used were superb. I very much enjoyed this, and found the flow to be wonderfully hypnotic.  

Best wishes,
/Kit

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
11 posted 2001-09-20 05:11 PM


Ryan, I think you have hit on it this time. In ordinary speech, into probably would have neither syllable stressed although it seems that, depending on the context or usage, either might be stressed. I'm not sure about any of this. But there is a provision, I can no longer remember the name, which provides for slightly stressing a syllable which ordinarily would not be, for the purpose of making the meter right. Something like that anyway. If you read the line thusly:

   And SLIP / in SI / lence IN / to THAT / long NIGHT?

Don't put much stress on IN but just enough to maintain the meter.

Hi Kit,

Thanks so much for the compliments. I am really glad you enjoyed it.

Pete


Ryan
Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297
Kansas
12 posted 2001-09-21 08:36 PM


You are right Pete.  It does sound much better when putting the stress there.  Readers might have to put a little thought into that to make it sound right, but as my intro to poetry professor said today, poetry is language that makes you slow down.

Ryan

Sigur Ros

aurora rain
Member
since 2000-11-15
Posts 90

13 posted 2001-09-22 10:44 PM


quote:
into something cohesive along the lines of Eliot's "Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."


one of my favorite poems ever, and did you know that ts eliot was the FIRST thing that entered my mind upon reading this.

the style, the subject....very reminiscent of prufrock.

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
14 posted 2001-09-24 09:47 AM


Thanks again, Ryan, for devoting so much time to this.

Thanks Aurora,
quote:
ts eliot was the FIRST thing that entered my mind upon reading this

made my day.

Pete


YeshuJah Malikk
Member
since 2000-06-29
Posts 263

15 posted 2001-09-27 04:54 PM


I haven't read anything quite this moving, and well written(IMO) in a long time.  Never having been any good with the fine art of critique I'll pass.  Besides, a whole lot has been said that'll probably help you more.  Thanks for the journey.
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
16 posted 2001-09-27 05:29 PM


Hi YM and thanks for the great complements. I'm glad you enjoyed as I do admire your work. BTW, it's good to hear from you. You haven't been around much lately and you have been missed. I hope you haven't stopped writing.

Thanks,
Pete

warmhrt
Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563

17 posted 2001-09-28 11:39 PM


Hi Pete,

You said you couldn't disagree with Rebel when he wrote "Ah...amore"....so is the poem written to love?

This is driving me crazy...
Kris

"It is wisdom to know others;
It is enlightenment to know one's self" - Lao Tzu

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
18 posted 2001-10-01 10:23 AM


Sorry Kris, I guess that was an inside comment. On some thread recently LR made a comment something like "there are only 3 valid literature subjects." I disagreed with hem on that. Here he pointed out that "this one sells." That was what I had to agree with this time.

Honestly this poem was not consciously written about, for or to anyone. It was just as I said, an experiment, an attempt to write something in a style somewhat like Prufrock. It's just a group of random though related thoughts which try to grow slightly more cohesive as the tale progresses without ever completely making sense.

I hope this isn't too disappointing but, as always, the reader is free to interpret as desired. Thanks for your interest.

Pete

Kevin Taylor
Member
since 1999-12-23
Posts 185
near Vancouver, BC, Canada
19 posted 2001-10-22 07:51 PM


A couple of points of opinion... I have never seen a truly cobalt sea (and cobalt always makes me think of radioactive for some reason) but I have seen cyan seas. Cyan fits well.. for your consideration.
I also had fun fiddling with some lines...

snow peaked mountain caps ... valleys dressed in Sunday flowered best ...
to dream perchance of hope ...

Kevin

"Poetry is, at once, what you get... and how you get there."


Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
20 posted 2001-10-25 10:57 AM


Hi Kevin,

Thanks for reading and commenting. I see how you are playing around with some of the wording and you may have some good ideas there. Thanks. But as for the cobalt, it is radioactive as I recall but I also recall the last time I was in a sailboat race across the Guld of Mexico that the water does appear very close to cobalt once you get beyond the continental shelf. In fact, the most vivid recollection I have of that 5 day race probably is the intensity of the blue water.

Thanks again for reading and commenting.

Pete

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